Dynamic Range is specificly related to luminance and contrast.
HDR is achromatic.
Although I understand WCG is only possible via a HDR signal, correct? Even if few games support it, if any at all.
Dynamic Range is specificly related to luminance and contrast.
HDR is achromatic.
I turned the dynamic backlight as soon as it showed up.
Thanks again
The icons i can't see are the HDR brightness, the visible i have to make an effort to see it, the other two are still total white, i do have an xbox one X, but still not much different, i feel stupid now, but i can't find the "brightness" option in the tv: https://imgur.com/a/88QjZ9U
I'll download forza horizon 4 demo to try.
I turned the dynamic backlight as soon as it showed up.
Thanks again
The icons i can't see are the HDR brightness, the visible i have to make an effort to see it, the other two are still total white, i do have an xbox one X, but still not much different, i feel stupid now, but i can't find the "brightness" option in the tv: https://imgur.com/a/88QjZ9U
I'll download forza horizon 4 demo to try.
Hellblade has a slightly confusing Gamma setting, it tells you to set the brightness slider until the image below is barely visible. The thing is, there are two images. But I get it, the left most image should barely be visible and the right image is fully visible.
I do wonder why there isn't a HDR setting here though.
Although I understand WCG is only possible via a HDR signal, correct? Even if few games support it, if any at all.
Hey EvilBoris! Bungie supposedly tweaked the HDR in Destiny 2 again with the latest patch, but to be honest I can't say I've noticed any differences. Were you planning on taking another look at the game?
https://www.bungie.net/en/Explore/Detail/News/47462
Just watched your HDR analysis on Battlefield V on HDTVTest on youtube. Nice work. And good to hear the analysis in your own voice :)
Hope im not breaking any forum rules in posting link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3tumQ8oYBI
Just watched your HDR analysis on Battlefield V on HDTVTest on youtube. Nice work. And good to hear the analysis in your own voice :)
Hope im not breaking any forum rules in posting link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3tumQ8oYBI
Please, you've got your expectations for Bungie totally backwards.Yup. Next expansion they'll fix it and do what people asked for. Destiny 2 Year 3 will have proper HDR next September. Believe.
That is true.The wcg is dependant on brightness though isn't it? Which is where hdr comes into play I thought.
But hdr and wcg are intricately related. About games not supporting wcg, I'm not sure, colors do change a lot in games like Shadow of the Tomb Raider, Horizon Zero Dawn, GT Sport, FFXV and others.Because the entire point of High Dynamic Range is... dynamic range - the difference between the brightest white and darkest black and how that should change based on how humans perceive light/contrast in the real world. What you're talking about would be Wide Color Gamut, which is a completely different thing even though it's a feature of the HDR10 format. And since the number of games that truly support WCG in their HDR implementations are... like, almost zero if not actually zero? Not much to discuss. The coarse re-maps from 8-bit to 10-bit that have convinced people that they're seeing "better/expanded colors" are not better... Just washed out in a way that makes people believe they're seeing more than there really is in the signal to see. This is because colors on your screen depend on both luminance (the amount of white) and chroma (the amount of color).
Thank you for your answer.Dynamic Range is specificly related to luminance and contrast.
HDR is achromatic.
Colors change because remapping 8 bits of color data to 10 bit can inherently change the presentation of the colors. But that doesn't mean those games have a wider color gamut... It just means the underlying white level that the colors are laid onto may be different (whether because of gamma vs. EOTF, bad remapping/color space conversion, etc.), resulting in an obvious difference between the perception of colors in SDR versus HDR.But hdr and wcg are intricately related. About games not supporting wcg, I'm not sure, colors do change a lot in games like Shadow of the Tomb Raider, Horizon Zero Dawn, GT Sport, FFXV and others.
Isn't the difference tone mapped to your display?So in Battlefront 2 it tells you to set the slider to the lowest value where the two rectangles still look identical. In my case with the Q9FN game settings on default that's at 16%. That's where both boxes look the same and the line is gone. Or should I still be able to see the line? It's interesting how far up you can go, I wonder why? The TV I got is one of the brightest out there now and I only need to set it at 16%. Default is 50%.
Same with BFV, it can go up to 2000 but it's at 1000 for me.
So in Battlefront 2 it tells you to set the slider to the lowest value where the two rectangles still look identical. In my case with the Q9FN game settings on default that's at 16%. That's where both boxes look the same and the line is gone. Or should I still be able to see the line? It's interesting how far up you can go, I wonder why? The TV I got is one of the brightest out there now and I only need to set it at 16%. Default is 50%.
Same with BFV, it can go up to 2000 but it's at 1000 for me.
Just so I'm clear on your recommendation here, even the apparently very good Dynamic Tone Mapping on the 2018 LG C8 should be a no fly zone for any type of content?It's unnecessary additional processing as far as I'm concerned.
This seems like it could be really obnoxious if I play BC games with no native HDR support. Is it not smart enough to auto detect the output from the game and switch on the fly?Microsoft delegates handling of HDR toggling to system level. So to disable HDR with an Xbox, you have to go to your system display settings and disable it there (and restart the game I believe, or else you will end up with bad output)
16% is 1600nits peak, it defaults to 5000Nits, which is unachievable.
You shouldn't be able to see the line, if you can , go just a little bit further, you are better off going a little over than under.
You should be getting the same rough values in differ ent games.
Good to know man, thanks a lot. :)
In some games like Gears you don't see a number, just a slider, so in those cases I'll just do exactly what the game says.
Can it be used to correct in the cases where the creator's intent is hot garbage (like MHW, for example)?The thing is, they are already doing tone mapping anyway that can't be disabled. Turning it on will simply move the image away from the creators intent.
I'm sure it has its uses if you are finding an image too dark
OK, so just had a look at gears of war, the first you you can always do to get the best from a display is to get the black level right.
You need to be in a dark room for this to.
So in gears of war 4 go the the video screen and reset the settings to default.
Now at a guess you are going to be able to see all 3 icons very clearly.
Rather than adjust the in game slider, let's adjust the TV's brightness down until it matches the desription, there will be a point where the "not visible" icon disspears, it might the just a single click's difference on the TV settings.
Once that is there, you should then be just able to make out the "barely visible" one.
Once you've done that I suspect that you will be able to get the white emblems visible and that should set you in good stead for other games.
For other games that I always found easy to get good results
Forza Horizon 4 demo
Rise of the Tomb Raider (Game pass) might only be HDR on X
Hitman (game pass)
Another thing I noticed is that you have Contrast set to 93. Try bringing that down or reset the picture settings to see what it's default value is. Forza Horizon 4 is a test for calibrating. Turn your contrast down to default or around 50. And use Forza Horizon 4's HDR settings (and push the HDR Brightness right until it clips and then push it back down one notch) to see how far you can bring Contrast up before it clips.
On my current display I can push Contrast up to 56 before it starts clipping.
As far as I know, your TV/Xbox will only switch into HDR mode when dealing with a game or app that has HDR support so this shouldn't be an issue. It becomes a hassle though when you want to disable HDR just for a single game, like RDR2 for example. The PS4 allows this since HDR is part of each game's settings. The Xbox relies on system settings. It's the same situation in Windows too (probably an SDK trait)This seems like it could be really obnoxious if I play BC games with no native HDR support. Is it not smart enough to auto detect the output from the game and switch on the fly?
So resetting my tv settings is
backlight 100
contrast 50
black level 50
Doing that i can see the 3 images fine in forza 4 but no in gears of war (still all almost completely white), i may have to tweak the gama for gears, or maybe forget it, and just play other games.
I barely see any change moving the contrast slider.
This tv doesn't even have the option to turn HDR off, is automatic if the signal is HDR which is annoying because some games don't have the option.
It sounds like your setup might not be correct - are you sure that HDR is enabled? The TCL 6 series has a maximum output of just over 600 nits, according to Doctor Google. The square should white out right around that point.Hey EvilBoris I own the TCL 6 series which I think tone maps up to 4000 nits. Now BFV slider goes up to 2000 (I think). I can't match the 5% white square, the TV is slighter darker on the left side. Is there any harm just keep in game HDR slider at max 2000?
With all due respect you can't disable tone mapping on the TCL. The 6 series peak brightness is 600–700 nits similar to an OLED but it can retain specular highlight detail up to 4000 nits. It doesn't clip.It sounds like your setup might not be correct - are you sure that HDR is enabled? The TCL 6 series has a maximum output of just over 600 nits, according to Doctor Google. The square should white out right around that point.
Edit: Totally missed that tone-mapping was enabled. I think the recommendation is to keep that disabled.
All HDR TVs use tone mapping. Not something you can disable.It sounds like your setup might not be correct - are you sure that HDR is enabled? The TCL 6 series has a maximum output of just over 600 nits, according to Doctor Google. The square should white out right around that point.
Edit: Totally missed that tone-mapping was enabled. I think the recommendation is to keep that disabled.
Hmm i set mine @1960 before clipping.So in Battlefront 2 it tells you to set the slider to the lowest value where the two rectangles still look identical. In my case with the Q9FN game settings on default that's at 16%. That's where both boxes look the same and the line is gone. Or should I still be able to see the line? It's interesting how far up you can go, I wonder why? The TV I got is one of the brightest out there now and I only need to set it at 16%. Default is 50%.
Same with BFV, it can go up to 2000 but it's at 1000 for me.
Yes PLZ!I'd like to see Destiny 2 done. It seems to have gotten a lil better recently, but has been mostly a mess, IIRC.
Wasn't Shadow of the Tomb Raider supposed to be one of the best HDR implementations?
I'm frustrated, in my NU8000 it looks washed out, and yes, everything is well calibrated.
It seems that 5 out of 10 games that I test look washed out in HDR, and the ones that look perfect in HDR are always the Sony exclusives (God of War, SotC, Spiderman, Detroit).
With all due respect you can't disable tone mapping on the TCL. The 6 series peak brightness is 600–700 nits similar to an OLED but it can retain specular highlight detail up to 4000 nits. It doesn't clip.
No but I assume the Q9 should be higher than 1000.
Any way to tell what our TVs max nits output is ? I have a TCL I bought at Costco last year and I think it looks great for HDR games. Thanks
Any way to tell what our TVs max nits output is ? I have a TCL I bought at Costco last year and I think it looks great for HDR games. Thanks
I'm gonna look some more into this because I am fairly sure the nits of the Q9FN is definitely higher than 1000 yeah. In SDR for sure, not fully certain about the nits in HDR.
I took a look at the Rtings page for the TV and found this.
HDR Real Scene Peak Brightness
: 908 cd/m²
HDR Peak 2% Window
: 1695 cd/m²
HDR Peak 10% Window
: 1763 cd/m²
HDR Peak 25% Window
: 1057 cd/m²
HDR Peak 50% Window
: 812 cd/m²
HDR Peak 100% Window
: 678 cd/m²
HDR Sustained 2% Window
: 1677 cd/m²
HDR Sustained 10% Window
: 1727 cd/m²
HDR Sustained 25% Window
: 1052 cd/m²
HDR Sustained 50% Window
: 812 cd/m²
HDR Sustained 100% Window
: 677 cd/m²
Which one do I look for here to know what nits of HDR on my TV is?
These are basically talking about how the % of the screen can be pushed to the designated output.
As a rule of thumb, the bigger the area is, the less bright it will be.
So your display can reach it's very brightest on an area 10% the size of the screen (1763nits) for a short time.
When the display needs to sustain this , it drops back a little to 1727nits.
With this in mind if you had your display calibrated you should be finding this is the approximate value you are moving the slider in many games to
1727? OK I will give this a shot tomorrow.
With having my display calibrated you mean by a professional one, right? Ever since I got my first plasma I've been considering it. I might push through with that next year for this one if I can find a good one in my country and one that isn't expensive as all hell, haha. And he'd have to calibrate for both movies/shows and gaming.
You are hitting 1000 so some tweaking is needed.1727? OK I will give this a shot tomorrow.
With having my display calibrated you mean by a professional one, right? Ever since I got my first plasma I've been considering it. I might push through with that next year for this one if I can find a good one in my country and one that isn't expensive as all hell, haha. And he'd have to calibrate for both movies/shows and gaming.
I see. So the regular tone mapping done by every set is just part of HDR, but the dynamic tone mapping on the LG's is proprietary. I had misunderstood how it worked (I thought all TVs had the same functionality).With all due respect you can't disable tone mapping on the TCL. The 6 series peak brightness is 600–700 nits similar to an OLED but it can retain specular highlight detail up to 4000 nits. It doesn't clip.
Yes, I was - I guess I thought that the dynamic tone mapping was just something that was a standard feature of all HDR sets.All HDR TVs use tone mapping. Not something you can disable.
Maybe you're thinking of dynamic tone mapping.
Many games on ps4 have incorrectly set black levels and in-game controls cannot resolve the issue. The only solution is to lower the brightness setting of your display - which can lead to posterisation and affect the tonemapping. Assassin's creed origins, Shadow of the tomb raider, and rdr2 all have raised black levels in hdr mode. I don't understand how this is not being reported as an issue.Wasn't Shadow of the Tomb Raider supposed to be one of the best HDR implementations?
I'm frustrated, in my NU8000 it looks washed out, and yes, everything is well calibrated.
It seems that 5 out of 10 games that I test look washed out in HDR, and the ones that look perfect in HDR are always the Sony exclusives (God of War, SotC, Spiderman, Detroit).
I'd like to see Destiny 2 done. It seems to have gotten a lil better recently, but has been mostly a mess, IIRC.
Dont you own a Sony as well?Yeah this!
I recently fired up the trial because I was expecting great things from this game with HDR on the Q9FN and I set the settings correctly but I couldn't really get it right. It was either way too dark, really crushing black detail or it was too bright, like a black level that is set to the wrong value. Which isn't the case (black level low on TV, standard on Xbox) and I believe this was with default game mode settings.
Speaking of which, yesterday I decided to follow a YouTuber's Q9FN settings. Most of the things looked good until he changed the Gamma from 0 to - 1. As soon as I do that it messed up the HDR calibration in Battlefield 5. I was able to crank up that slider to the max and I still saw the line. At first I thought the culprit was contrast enhancer set to high (I definitely prefer that in many games) but that wasn't it at all.
I'm just gonna leave the gamma alone. For some reason Rtings says to change it to +1 I believe but I don't see why, since it unnecessarily brightens games more. Or a movie for that matter.