...I can't fathom a civil response to this.
Anyway, this event is terrible.
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He brought an American flag to protest fascism in Portland. Then antifa attacked him.
- Thread starter Airing of Grievances
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Anyway, this event is terrible.
The amount of violence by antifa is miniscule compared to the history of KKK and neo Nazi violence in the US. Why would they be more dangerous?
Violence was normalized when the president told people at his rallies to beat up protesters, said both sides are to blame after a white supremacist terrorist attack and said he could shoot someone in times square and get away with it.
This thread surprises me since I never knew antifa had an issue with the American flag in general.
I do think that in general antifa serves a useful purpose in balancing out rightwing nutjobs since right wing extremists are FAR more common. Antifa is basically made out to be "leftwing extremists" by conspiracy theorists who want to act as though both sides are equal in the U.S. when one side are literal neonazis.
It is sad that this happened instead of actual nazis being targeted though, and of course the people who did it should be charged.
I do think that in general antifa serves a useful purpose in balancing out rightwing nutjobs since right wing extremists are FAR more common. Antifa is basically made out to be "leftwing extremists" by conspiracy theorists who want to act as though both sides are equal in the U.S. when one side are literal neonazis.
It is sad that this happened instead of actual nazis being targeted though, and of course the people who did it should be charged.
An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. Violence should never be normalized. Jesus.
Wait, so if it's the action that you don't like, then you just don't understand antifa. Violence against their opponents is their entire MO.
what? Have you actually read anything about antifa?
An intimate history of Antifa said:
I really cannot see how anyone can argue that these are the actions of a peaceful "non-violent" organization.
Same here. They generally don't although I can see recent developments with the Trump administration basically being a fascist administration changing that. But this? What the hell.
Something stinks here. But I don't even give a shit about the asshats in blackblock right now, whether shit for brains out of control antifa or more of that rash of alt righters posing as black bloc.
There's something far more wrong than even that gigantic flashing red light.
The fucking crowd's reaction is unfucking acceptable.
All those people just sat there, and let that dude lie in a puddle of his own blood?
What the fucking hell!!????
Sucks. And they are idiots who should get arrested.
But it seems the alternative is a huge turnout of empowered racists undeterred w/ specialized police protection. Shit, they pulled some shit on the sly in NYC a few weeks ago and considering the powes that be are enabling it sucks that the only deterrent are a group that some members might be there for the wrong reasons
But maybe the joke is on me and racists parades are an American feature, not a bug. Its probably that.
But it seems the alternative is a huge turnout of empowered racists undeterred w/ specialized police protection. Shit, they pulled some shit on the sly in NYC a few weeks ago and considering the powes that be are enabling it sucks that the only deterrent are a group that some members might be there for the wrong reasons
But maybe the joke is on me and racists parades are an American feature, not a bug. Its probably that.
Antifa just beat the shit out of an ally. I think they're doing a fine job of that all on their own.
I mean clearly they thought so? I'm not trying to cast any judgement on Paul, but they clearly considered him an opponent by the fact that they chose to attack him.
Look I'm not going to argue that you should attack people who are waving an American flag, just trying to point out that the flag certainly carries quite a lot of negative connotation for a lot people, and it could make people angry. It's understandable if some people see it as a symbol of oppression.
If he's considered their opponent, then I hope they get destroyed. Fuck Antifa if that's the case.
I'm not the biggest fan of the US flag either, but beating a normie over the head because of it is a terrible move. Targeting people with strict black and white absolutism over this particular symbol is gonna keep leading to bad counterproductive encounters. Good well meaning people find the flag worth redeeming or still an embodiment of virtue - not sure I agree, but they certainly aren't the enemy.
Antifa isn't turning people into fascists. Fascists don't need ammunition.
Unprovoked violence is bad.
Protesting fascism with the American flag is like protesting Trumo with a MAGA had and claiming it's because you want America to be great.
It's really unfortunate they're the only ones that have been taking a hard stand against right wing BS, but hopefully the last few years have been a catalyst for others. We shall see in November.
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There's something quite ironic about how some of you despise your own country so much that you say things like this while claiming to stand up for immigrants who are willing to risk being separated from their children, and worse, just to have a chance to live here.
so a counter protester goes down and gets into a fight wit other counter protesters about his flag?
I'm calling bullshit, but who knows. I know some people who would have folded up their flag if asked.
If you can't get that people have issue with America, you are not the ally anyone needs.
I'm calling bullshit, but who knows. I know some people who would have folded up their flag if asked.
If you can't get that people have issue with America, you are not the ally anyone needs.
Is this the new variation of "if you don't like it then leave"?
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Complete and utter bullshit.
Cool, we finally got to the part where it's the victims fault.
yeah because we hate our country since we have issues with it's governance, how it uses patriotism against its citizens, and the track that most of country leadership wants to take. Yea.
I'm pretty sure there's more to your post than making an observation but if you don't want to talk about it that's fine.
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Whatever more you think there is is likely your own mind filling in blanks on my behalf. That's common in internet exchanges.
why are they wearing masks?
why are they brandishing the Anarchist colors of Red and Black?
why are they hitting anyone who is pure?
why are they brandishing the Anarchist colors of Red and Black?
why are they hitting anyone who is pure?
I have questions. and certain things don't seem right about the entire deal.
yeah the narrative that some press and pressfans seem to be looking for is "antifa is a threat to normal citizens" and that fits well into D Trump and bullshit. I want to see some video for context, and I want to know how you go down to counter-protest and end up fighting counter-protesters over your own flag.
It's totally sane and rational to have questions about the motives of the guy who got his skull smashed in. He was asking for it!
That's called analysis. We regularly fill in blanks based on context on a daily basis. It's just a matter of whether the assumptions being made are likely/reasonable.
Since apparently I wasn't clear enough before, saying "it was just an observation" is a blatant cop out. Why bother engaging in a discussion you're not willing to have?
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Except you can protest all of those things while reclaiming the idealistic symbols of the country. You'd rather pessimistically throw it all away and concede it to racists and other nefarious groups. Why else did someone make images like these?
And I'm telling you that your analysis was incorrect. It was a valid observation and nothing more. You don't have to go anywhere. This is not love it or leave it.
Hope whoever did that lands jail time. Terrible action. The judgment of that entire group went out the window, just who so they think they are opposing?
I wonder what the efficacy of the black bloc is when it comes to counter protesting. The solidarity of identifying as a member just seems counterproductive when it comes down to the amount of heat you get from the cops invariably defending the racists and fascists.
I wonder what the efficacy of the black bloc is when it comes to counter protesting. The solidarity of identifying as a member just seems counterproductive when it comes down to the amount of heat you get from the cops invariably defending the racists and fascists.
If seeing the American flag can cause such moral trepidation that members of an organization that is supposed to be non-violent and stands against fascism results in nearly killing a man for holding it...it kind of implies that their focus isn't really trying to better this country.
If it was a "Don't tread on me" flag or what people think was the Confederate Flag, then maybe I could see how some people could react so negatively. Wouldn't agree, but I could see the train of thought. But if the American flag is such a trigger...
1. Anonymity, makes it harder for them to be doxxed by fascists and easier to escape from police.
2. Because they're primarily anarchists and communists
3. Some people are stupid and into adventurism
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Yet you have no reasonable right to tell someone to put their flag away through intimidation and force, which is what this thread is about.
who said they had the right? was this about legal rights? If your intent was to go stand against fascism, or fight for your flag, we know which one got accomplished.
Lol that's not how it works. "It was just an observation" only gets said by someone who doesn't want to have to own up to the implications of their statement. Don't get me wrong, I can see that you're not going to stop hiding behind it, but you're not fooling anyone.
I mean, you don't seriously think that this is as simple as people seeing an American flag and immediately being compelled to bash someone's head in, do you?
The American Flag is the literal flag of the country, how is it in any way comparable to a MAGA had[sic] as promoted by Trumo[sic]?
I'd say take a lot at the recent free speech/white rights rallies that have recently happened and compare the attire of the 3%ers/Patriot Prayer/Proud Boy types and the left winged protestors/DSA/Antifa there.
Your answer lies there.
"Peaceful" antifa isn't being patriotic? Say it ain't so!
Maybe realize that there's a world outside the U.S that has suffered a lot more under the Stars and Stripes than any confederate/tea party flag.
I mean how about the fact that Trump's worst actions pale in comparison to the atrocities that the US has committed historically?
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Whatever implications you're picking up on my behalf is a mistake on your part. You do not have to go anywhere. You do not have to make the binary choice of loving it or leaving it.