Headphones Era lOTl Even Through The Distortion We Remain Lossless

Zafir · Mar 22, 2019

Atraveller said:
I don't even know why people buy their stuff.

I mean to be fair their low end stuff is fairly good. Magni 3 was the best "cheap" amp for a while until the atom came out. The Modi 3 is regarded as one of the best "cheap" dacs, similar if not better than the topping D30(even by audiosciencereview which hasn't had biggest love of them).

oakenhild · Mar 22, 2019

Atraveller said:
The high-end Schitt stuff measures worse than their low-end gear besides power. I don't even know why people buy their stuff. Get the JDS Labs Atom. For $100 you get the cleanest single-ended amp under maybe $500.

I'm sort of new to higher-end headphones and amps, and have googled this a bit, but would I see any benefit to getting an amp for either my Sennheiser HD58X Jubilee or Audio Technica MSR7NC headphones? From what I read, the MSR7NC wouldn't benefit due to the (fairly poor) noise cancelling already in the headphones.

Atraveller · Mar 22, 2019

Zafir said:
I mean to be fair their low end stuff is fairly good. Magni 3 was the best "cheap" amp for a while until the atom came out. The Modi 3 is regarded as one of the best "cheap" dacs, similar if not better than the topping D30(even by audiosciencereview which hasn't had biggest love of them).

Ok I may have been too harsh, but I really dislike their employees' attitude and their Apple-like hush-hush approach to correcting design flaws.

oakenhild said:
I'm sort of new to higher-end headphones and amps, and have googled this a bit, but would I see any benefit to getting an amp for either my Sennheiser HD58X Jubilee or Audio Technica MSR7NC headphones? From what I read, the MSR7NC wouldn't benefit due to the (fairly poor) noise cancelling already in the headphones.

Not if your device can already drive the 58X to reasonably loud volume without turning it all the way up.

Book One · Mar 22, 2019

Anyone ever switched their headphone earpads/cushions with a 3rd party replacement? Is it true the velour pads are more 'breathable'/cooler?

Zafir · Mar 22, 2019

Atraveller said:
Ok I may have been too harsh, but I really dislike their employees' attitude and their Apple-like hush-hush approach to correcting design flaws.

True, at least they did seem to listen with the Modi though.

Vyer said:
Anyone ever switched their headphone earpads/cushions with a 3rd party replacement? Is it true the velour pads are more 'breathable'/cooler?

I swapped my Sony WH1000XM2 earpads for some suede dekoni ones at the start of the year. They were definitely more comfy and were a bit cooler than the default pleather ones that they had.

Velour does tend to be more breathable too.

That said, something you have to take into account is that the sound can change when using different earpads, especially when swapping from something more enclosed like leather to velour which lets sound through more. Consequently you're best off getting some impressions from others who have done the specific swap you're looking at and how it affected the sound.

oakenhild · Mar 22, 2019

Atraveller said:
Ok I may have been too harsh, but I really dislike their employees' attitude and their Apple-like hush-hush approach to correcting design flaws.
Not if your device can already drive the 58X to reasonably loud volume without turning it all the way up.

Makes sense, thanks!

Book One · Mar 22, 2019

Zafir said:
True, at least they did seem to listen with the Modi though.

I swapped my Sony WH1000XM2 earpads for some suede dekoni ones at the start of the year. They were definitely more comfy and were a bit cooler than the default pleather ones that they had.

Velour does tend to be more breathable too.

That said, something you have to take into account is that the sound can change when using different earpads, especially when swapping from something more enclosed like leather to velour which lets sound through more. Consequently you're best off getting some impressions from others who have done the specific swap you're looking at and how it affected the sound.

thanks for the info.

Currently looking at something for my QC35s. Ears tend to get a little warm.

Zafir · Mar 23, 2019

Vyer said:
thanks for the info.

Currently looking at something for my QC35s. Ears tend to get a little warm.

In that case I'm not sure I'd recommend velour. It'd affect the noise cancelling on those.

I guess it might be worth waiting to see if Dekoni do the Suede pads for those as well. They do affect the noise cancelling very slightly on my XM2's but it wasn't much and the comfort improvement far outweighs it imo.

Neon Octopus · Mar 23, 2019

Hi everyone. I just preorded masdrop 6xx's. I'd like to use them to game on my pc, but don't know what dac/amp to get. I was looking at the Sennheiser GSX 1000s, but it looks like the amp isnt enough so now I'm leaning towards the soundblaster x g6. Are they any good? Would a regular dac/amp + dolby atmos for headphones work?

JomanC137 · Mar 25, 2019

Headphones Era, I recently tried my favorite album (Pulse) by Pink Floyd on high-end headphones and coming from simple speakers, it was like a whole different band, it's just crazy how much quality sound matters and I never paid attention.

I need some recommendations on what to get, here are my requirements:

Closed preferably, wouldn't be opposed to open
Main use will be listening to music for long stuyding sessions (Pink Floyd, rock, electronic, alternative, vaporwave)
I need them to be as comfortable as possible
Most detailed sound reproduciton possible for around $100.00

Someone suggested going for the Koss Portapro as I will hardly find a better value, but I don't know, ¿any suggestions? (will buy from Amazon Mexico)

GwiDan · Mar 25, 2019

Is there any information available on whether the Sony XM3s can switch between paired devices without having to turn off the bluetooth radio on the current device yet? This seems to be a fundamental flaw in apparently 5 star headphones, particularly when considering the Bose QC35's can switch devices.

wonzo · Mar 25, 2019

JomanC137 said:
Headphones Era, I recently tried my favorite album (Pulse) by Pink Floyd on high-end headphones and coming from simple speakers, it was like a whole different band, it's just crazy how much quality sound matters and I never paid attention.

I need some recommendations on what to get, here are my requirements:

Closed preferably, wouldn't be opposed to open

Main use will be listening to music for long stuyding sessions (Pink Floyd, rock, electronic, alternative, vaporwave)

I need them to be as comfortable as possible

Most detailed sound reproduciton possible for around $100.00

Someone suggested going for the Koss Portapro as I will hardly find a better value, but I don't know, ¿any suggestions? (will buy from Amazon Mexico)

coolermaster mh751's are the best closed pair until you get to botique planar things and theyre usually on sale for ~$70

Zafir · Mar 25, 2019

Neon Octopus said:
Hi everyone. I just preorded masdrop 6xx's. I'd like to use them to game on my pc, but don't know what dac/amp to get. I was looking at the Sennheiser GSX 1000s, but it looks like the amp isnt enough so now I'm leaning towards the soundblaster x g6. Are they any good? Would a regular dac/amp + dolby atmos for headphones work?

I'd certainly recommend the g6 if you're mainly using it for gaming, as it's a good all round solution for games. The amp in it will be enough to drive the 6xx and some harder to drive headphones too. On PC via USB you can select 7.1 in windows which means you should be able to get virtual surround from all modern games that support surround sound, it also has software Alchemy support for virtual surround from older games but there's better mods that can solve that issue anyway. Also it has an optical in for dolby digital decoding which is useful if you have a PS4 or Xbox one(or in fact any device that sends dolby digital like a cable box or your tv) as you can get virtual surround from those devices too. It does have support over USB with some other devices like the Switch and PS4 but you can only get stereo, no virtual surround.

Using a regular dac/amp is another option yeah, and to be fair there is more options than just dolby atmos for headphones if you're going down the software virtual surround route. I'd recommend a regular dac/amp for people who don't care quite as much about virtual surround or any other sound processing options and just want to focus on pure audio quality. I say this because while you can get similar sound processing options on a regular dac/amp, it can be a bit more hassle, where as the g6 is more or less plug-in and play. Dolby Atmos for headphones for example is great with some games/apps(like netflix), but it just doesn't work with others because a lot of games check the windows speaker setting and when it sees stereo(even if you could select 7.1, dolby atmos for headphones forces stereo) it just outputs stereo without any choice so the effect doesn't get enabled. As I mentioned on the previous page, two other software options are Out of Your Head(good effect that makes it feel like you're listening to speakers but the software itself is a bit amateurish) and Waves. Both of those should support surround with every modern game as you can select 7.1, but they may require a bit of set up.

It is worth noting the g6 has an optical out, so you can actually use the g6 with a regular dac/amp assuming the dac has an optical port. So which ever way you go, you could still upgrade to include the other option.

GwiDan said:
Is there any information available on whether the Sony XM3s can switch between paired devices without having to turn off the bluetooth radio on the current device yet? This seems to be a fundamental flaw in apparently 5 star headphones, particularly when considering the Bose QC35's can switch devices.

Pretty sure they still can't do that.

Neon Octopus · Mar 25, 2019

Wow thanks for the response! I think I'll jump on the g6

JomanC137 · Mar 25, 2019

wonzo said:
coolermaster mh751's are the best closed pair until you get to botique planar things and theyre usually on sale for ~$70

They look great! but are they focused on gaming or are they good for both music and gaming?

wonzo · Mar 26, 2019

JomanC137 said:
They look great! but are they focused on gaming or are they good for both music and gaming?

great for both. theyre clones of the well regarded takstar pro 82's but with even more comfortable pads and better qc

Deleted member 4413 · Mar 27, 2019

Atraveller said:
The high-end Schitt stuff measures worse than their low-end gear besides power. I don't even know why people buy their stuff. Get the JDS Labs Atom. For $100 you get the cleanest single-ended amp under maybe $500.

The "worse" measurements are not in the realm of human hearing, that is why. If all we did was buy gear based on measurements then everyone would own a topping dac.

Don't fall into the Amir trap. Guy doesn't know shit about measurements or sound.

JDS makes some good quality and affordable gear though.

i like big butts · Mar 28, 2019

A lot of Schiit's problems are absolutely within the realm of human hearing. Issues with channel imbalance, scratchy volume pots and electrical noise are absolutely audiable. Both Schiit Fullas are functionally disabled because of how easily they pick up interference from adjoining USB and telecommunications devices. I know because I own both and they're absolutely not functionally good devices.

Then there's a whole bunch of other issues like poor ergonomics (toggle switches at rear) to potentially poorly designed relays (transducer thumping when turning on, huge thumping if turn on and off quickly as if the relay has been bypassed). I've owned a whole gamut of Schiit (Magni, Modi, Bifrost, Gumby, Valhalla 2, Mjolnir 2) products and all of them exhibited similar problems that I can't just dismiss it as just being unlucky. No other product I own has relays that behave like Schiit's.

A lot of their stuff just has bad engineering plain and simple. Acoustically you likely won't hear a difference between poorly measuring gear and well measuring gear when there's music playing but I don't see why anyone should bother with their potential drawbacks when other gear doesn't have said drawbacks. We're honestly spoilt with choice now and Schiit's position in the market as one of the only providers of affordable aesthetically pleasing hardware with good enough acoustic performance doesn't exist anymore.

Pretty much the sole reason I can see for purchasing Schiit is if you think their multibit implementation is particularly special. That's for the individual themselves to decide but outside of that I can't see a single reason to recommend their gear. And I say this as someone who has physically owned like 3/4 of their headphone product lineup.

i like big butts · Mar 28, 2019

Double post

Chixdiggit · Mar 28, 2019

Looking for closed headphones around the $200 range. I also want them to not be hard wired and compatible with V-MODA BoomPro Microphone.
For games and music. I also already have a Schitt Stack.

Edit: Thinking about V-Moda Crossfade M-100. Thoughts?

Mr_Kuschels · Mar 28, 2019

Chixdiggit said:
Looking for closed headphones around the $200 range. I also want them to not be hard wired and compatible with V-MODA BoomPro Microphone.
For games and music. I also already have a Schitt Stack.

Edit: Thinking about V-Moda Crossfade M-100. Thoughts?

SOundquality is imo very nice with lots of emphasis on bass. The comfort, even with the XL earpads, lacks significantly tho.

Chixdiggit · Mar 28, 2019

Mr_Kuschels said:
SOundquality is imo very nice with lots of emphasis on bass. The comfort, even with the XL earpads, lacks significantly tho.

Seems to be a common complaint about the comfort. I think I'll take the risk as Amazon has a pretty good Warehouse deal on them.

sleepnaught · Mar 28, 2019

Got that JDS Labs Atom in today. To my surprise, its barely an upgrade to my Magni 1 as far as volume output is concerned. It does sound "cleaner" and a ton less noise. I'll probably return it and get the Liquid Spark instead, I heard its got a fair bit of more power.

Mr_Kuschels · Mar 28, 2019

Chixdiggit said:
Seems to be a common complaint about the comfort. I think I'll take the risk as Amazon has a pretty good Warehouse deal on them.

I could never really get used to it and ended up buying a different pair of headphones. My ears would start aching and get sweaty after only 30-45 minutes and my head and ears aren't particularly huge.

Chixdiggit · Mar 29, 2019

Mr_Kuschels said:
I could never really get used to it and ended up buying a different pair of headphones. My ears would start aching and get sweaty after only 30-45 minutes and my head and ears aren't particularly huge.

I ended up buying a third party ear pad for them. Hopefully it fixes any comfort issues.

Aurica · Mar 29, 2019

I've had great luck over the years having recommendations from Des. I'm back tor more.

IEMs always hurt my ears and cause issues, but I want some comfortable in ear headphones that stay in when working out. Wireless with decent sound quality is a plus. Preferably under 100 USD. I listen to a lot of Rap and Indie Rock.

Let me know if I have to cut some stuff, and thanks in advance!

RatskyWatsky · Apr 1, 2019

thinking about buying Sennheiser hd 599 for like music/movies/gaming...

but also, like, $150 is a lot so I'm kinda waffling a bit. i generally use those Panasonic earbuds that cost like $8 and they're pretty good, cheap to replace when they stop working every 6ish months. would going from them to Sennheiser 599 be like going from sd to hd?

Atraveller · Apr 1, 2019

RatskyWatsky said:
thinking about buying Sennheiser hd 599 for like music/movies/gaming...

but also, like, $150 is a lot so I'm kinda waffling a bit. i generally use those Panasonic earbuds that cost like $8 and they're pretty good, cheap to replace when they stop working every 6ish months. would going from them to Sennheiser 599 be like going from sd to hd?

Yes

CthulhuSars · Apr 1, 2019

RatskyWatsky said:
thinking about buying Sennheiser hd 599 for like music/movies/gaming...

but also, like, $150 is a lot so I'm kinda waffling a bit. i generally use those Panasonic earbuds that cost like $8 and they're pretty good, cheap to replace when they stop working every 6ish months. would going from them to Sennheiser 599 be like going from sd to hd?

It would be a huge step up in audio without blowing that much. The mid tier Senn's really are in a good place before the law of diminishing returns starts to kick in.

i like big butts · Apr 2, 2019

Spring the extra $50 for the HD6XX from Massdrop or second hand HD580/600/650. No reason to deal with those low-fi Sennheisers because of Massdrop. Stuff like the HD598/HD599/HD58X are distinctly low-fi compared to the HD6XX and are actually comparatively overpriced.

Zafir · Apr 2, 2019

i like big butts said:
Spring the extra $50 for the HD6XX from Massdrop or second hand HD580/600/650. No reason to deal with those low-fi Sennheisers because of Massdrop. Stuff like the HD598/HD599/HD58X are distinctly low-fi compared to the HD6XX and are actually comparatively overpriced.

Depends where you live though. The Massdrop stuff is significantly dearer in the EU due to customs/vat.

That said Massdrop are currently trialing EU shipping so maybe that won't be the case when 6xx gets added to it.

CthulhuSars · Apr 2, 2019

i like big butts said:
Spring the extra $50 for the HD6XX from Massdrop or second hand HD580/600/650. No reason to deal with those low-fi Sennheisers because of Massdrop. Stuff like the HD598/HD599/HD58X are distinctly low-fi compared to the HD6XX and are actually comparatively overpriced.

The used market is actually a good idea if you are trying to save some money.

RatskyWatsky · Apr 2, 2019

Used headphones, and with no warranty? :x

I guess I'll pass for now then - maybe wait for Prime Day to see if they have a deal on the 6XX.

i like big butts · Apr 2, 2019

Depends on the headphone. For Sennheiser's HD600/650 series of headphones, the lack of warranty is a non-issue. They're exceptionally consistent, reliable and everything can be easily replaced if need be. If its DOA, issue a PayPal dispute because you should be using PayPal for just all audio classifieds that require delivery.

If we're talking about something like a pair of Audeze or Focal headphones, then sure the lack of warranty is a bummer. But a lot of the old classics had rock solid designs that were designed for actual manhandling.

Atraveller · Apr 3, 2019

i like big butts said:
Depends on the headphone. For Sennheiser's HD600/650 series of headphones, the lack of warranty is a non-issue. They're exceptionally consistent, reliable and everything can be easily replaced if need be. If its DOA, issue a PayPal dispute because you should be using PayPal for just all audio classifieds that require delivery.

If we're talking about something like a pair of Audeze or Focal headphones, then sure the lack of warranty is a bummer. But a lot of the old classics had rock solid designs that were designed for actual manhandling.

I've heard that some Focal headphones burns out. Does Audeze have QC problems?

i like big butts · Apr 3, 2019

Focal headphones had some issues with premature death but who knows if its simply more reported because of the internet. That being said, you get no warranty from Focal if you're not the original buyer and you have to go through the dealer which is a huge pain in the booty.

Audeze long has had QC/design issues ranging from the wood cracking to drivers dying. I think its less common with their newest models but it was certainly a thing with the LCD2 and LCD3 era of products.

Blizniak · Apr 3, 2019

Yeah people used to joke that you had to buy Hifiman headphones and Audeze headphones so when the Hifiman headband falls apart and Audeze driver dies you can still merge them into one.

Atraveller · Apr 3, 2019

Blizniak said:
Yeah people used to joke that you had to buy Hifiman headphones and Audeze headphones so when the Hifiman headband falls apart and Audeze driver dies you can still merge them into one.

oof

ArcLyte · Apr 3, 2019

GwiDan said:
Is there any information available on whether the Sony XM3s can switch between paired devices without having to turn off the bluetooth radio on the current device yet? This seems to be a fundamental flaw in apparently 5 star headphones, particularly when considering the Bose QC35's can switch devices.

Yes, just disconnect from one, and connect to the other. I do it every day switching between my pixel 2 and macbook pro and never had to disable bluetooth on either.

ArcLyte · Apr 3, 2019

Got my JDS Element in today paired with Sony MDR-Z7M2s, it sounds heavenly. It's my desktop headphone endgame.

dm101 · Apr 3, 2019

I just bought a nice little rig that sounds fabulous: the hifiman sundaras, the jds labs 02 headphone amp, and the jds labs EL dac. I'm using hi-resTidal as a source and I'm totally loving it.

Atraveller · Apr 6, 2019

Massdrop's HD6XX has went up in price to $220 a pair.

Zafir · Apr 6, 2019

Atraveller said:
Massdrop's HD6XX has went up in price to $200 a pair.

$220 I think you mean?

Was really confused for a second as I swore that was what I paid for mine at the start of last year!

Atraveller · Apr 6, 2019

Zafir said:
$220 I think you mean?

Was really confused for a second as I swore that was what I paid for mine at the start of last year!

Yes.

Darkatomz · Apr 7, 2019

i like big butts said:
Focal headphones had some issues with premature death but who knows if its simply more reported because of the internet. That being said, you get no warranty from Focal if you're not the original buyer and you have to go through the dealer which is a huge pain in the booty.

Audeze long has had QC/design issues ranging from the wood cracking to drivers dying. I think its less common with their newest models but it was certainly a thing with the LCD2 and LCD3 era of products.

I thought this was more of a concern for Focal with the headphones made before the Clear (which is what I have been using)? I'm pairing it with a modded Burson Playmate that I've had time to test out. This is likely to be endgame setup material for me, amazing stuff, highly recommended for it's price point even without the upgrades.

i like big butts · Apr 11, 2019

Darkatomz said:
I thought this was more of a concern for Focal with the headphones made before the Clear (which is what I have been using)? I'm pairing it with a modded Burson Playmate that I've had time to test out. This is likely to be endgame setup material for me, amazing stuff, highly recommended for it's price point even without the upgrades.

No, Focal Clears also have the premature death and (mostly irrelevant) excursion issue.

Personally none of the Focals are good value in my opinion. The Elear sounds balls, the Utopia is stupid expensive, the Clear and Elex trades midrange and treble smoothness for better bass performance against the HD600/HD650 and honestly still has too much midbass.

Now that I think about it, I can't think of many really special headphones past the $300-400 range. Maybe the TH900 with TH610 pads and Hifiman HE-6?

Darkatomz · Apr 11, 2019

i like big butts said:
No, Focal Clears also have the premature death and (mostly irrelevant) excursion issue.

Personally none of the Focals are good value in my opinion. The Elear sounds balls, the Utopia is stupid expensive, the Clear and Elex trades midrange and treble smoothness for better bass performance against the HD600/HD650 and honestly still has too much midbass.

Now that I think about it, I can't think of many really special headphones past the $300-400 range. Maybe the TH900 with TH610 pads and Hifiman HE-6?

I've had no issues with mine and love them, but then again I have a Professional version with the red padding that I got off of SlickDeals.

I will agree with you that diminishing returns definitely starts kicking in around the $400 price range. I upgraded from a HiFiman HE-560 (which I guess today's equivalent would be a Sundara?) which now goes for way less than it did a few years ago. Great value, but if you really wanted to talk quality control, I would think HiFiman would come up more often than Focal.

i like big butts · Apr 12, 2019

You need to understand that just because your unit has no problems doesn't mean it isn't a problem that occurs more often than it should within the Focal headphone lineup. Its like the old argument that because your PS4 doesn't seem subjectively loud, all PS4s cannot be loud and that people claiming that they are loud just have a defective one. Which is demonstratively not true, all PS4s can be considered audible while playing video games which is a good enough argument that it is actually loud.

Hifiman is repeatedly called out for cheap and shoddy material choices but they also generally don't suffer from potential catastrophic driver failure, which is a far more difficult thing to deal with. Especially since Focal's warranty is not transferable and in most cases you have to go through the original dealer for a warranty claim. Hifiman does a lot of things wrong with their product material choices but their drivers have been relatively consistent and reliable in the high end audio industry. They're no Sennheiser but they're not even close to being Audeze.

I'd definitely buy a Focal headphone new if I really wanted one but I'd definitely not buy a second hand one unless they're willing to transfer their entire store account into my address and name and/or giving me a huge discount.

Blizniak · Apr 13, 2019

Focal recently extended Utopia warranty to 5 years too because people's drivers were dying.

Sinder · Apr 14, 2019

Zafir said:
True, at least they did seem to listen with the Modi though.

I swapped my Sony WH1000XM2 earpads for some suede dekoni ones at the start of the year. They were definitely more comfy and were a bit cooler than the default pleather ones that they had.

Velour does tend to be more breathable too.

That said, something you have to take into account is that the sound can change when using different earpads, especially when swapping from something more enclosed like leather to velour which lets sound through more. Consequently you're best off getting some impressions from others who have done the specific swap you're looking at and how it affected the sound.

So the suede pads affect noise cancellaton? That's a bummer, was kinda interested in trying them out on my 1000xm3 but I want the best NC possible.

Headphones Era lOTl Even Through The Distortion We Remain Lossless

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