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Headphones Era lOTl Even Through The Distortion We Remain Lossless

HiResDes

HiResDes

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,577
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Understanding Impedance - Of course what I'm about say doesn't apply to every pair of headphones or earphones, but here it goes: One important thing to note when picking a set of cans or IEMs is whether they are high impedance or low impedance. Low impedance head-gear usually requires little to no amplification in order to reach it's full potential, while high impedance head gear requires more amplification or voltage in order to sound how it should. Low impedance head-gear usually ranges from about 10 - 80OHM; High Impedance head gear 250 - 600OHM. High impedance head-gear usually suffers from less sound distortion and static noise.

What's a DAC - A Digital to Audio Converter converts a digital bitstream to an analog signal. Can be a separate "box" that connects between a CD Transport or CD Player and a pre-amplifier. Damping (Damping factor, etc.): Refers to the ability of an audio component to "stop" after the signal ends. For example, if a drum is struck with a mallet, the sound will reach a peak level and then decay in a certain amount of time to no sound. An audio component that allows the decay to drag on too long has poor damping, and less definition than it should. An audio component that is overdamped does not allow the initial energy to reach the full peak and cuts the decay short. "Boomy" or "muddy" sound is often the result of underdamped systems. "Dry" or "lifeless" sound may be the result of an overdamped system. If you have a poor sound-card and need a DAC or a better one you will probably experience a bit of distortion, which may be audible even without anything playing.

What's an Amp - A device which increases signal level. Many types of amplifiers are used in audio systems. Amplifiers typically increase voltage, current or both.

Description of Soundstage - A listening term that refers to the placement of a stereo image in a fashion that replicates the original performance. A realistic soundstage has proportional width, depth and height.


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Closed Vs. Open Headphones - Usually this refers to headphones exclusively. Closed headphones leak sound less and generally provide better isolation from external noises. Open headphones may go loud enough to cover up external noises but generally leak sound to anyone present in the room and generally do a poor job with sound isolation. Open headphones are generally lighter and are more "lively" sounding with better soundstage. Closed headphones usually sport a greater bass impact, but obviously these generalities about sound vary greatly.

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Portability - Usually this is a discussion involving headphones. Portable headphones are generally lighter, have lower impedance, and some of them fold up. Generally all IEMs (earphones) are portable given their small size, although some may benefit from amplification.

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Supra-Aural (On-Ear Headphones) Vs. Circumaural (Over-Ear Headphones) - Circumaural headphones have ear pads that fit all the over the ear rather than resting on the ear. The results generally lead to added comfort and isolation, though there are some notable exceptions, and lately on-ear headphones have made large strides in both departments. Circumaural headphones also tend to sport wider soundstages and increased bass impact. Supra-Aural headphones are generally lighter, foldable, easier to drive, and thus more portable.

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Earbuds Vs. IEMs - Earbuds sit very shallow in the ear (these are what come with iPods) whereas IEMs actually are meant to be inserted all the way into the ear. IEMs provide better isolation, generally better sound, and generally better comfort as well. They are mostly what are going to be recommended, although the Yuin PK3s are a notable exception.

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Encoding in lossless - Lossless files such as APE/WAV/FLAC/ALAC offer the best archival quality. They are known as lossless files because they don't suffer from any loss of quality or artifacts when encoding from an audio source such as a CD or LP. Therefore utilizing them to encode to lossy files presents by far the most optimal choice. A well encoded lossy file which starts from a lossless source can sound quite good, nearly
identical.

Lossy Files - Despite what some sites seem to perpetuate, I don't believe utilizing lossy files is the end of the world. They present the most efficient use of space, and as long as they are well encoded most people would be hard pressed to identify them when compared to Lossless ones even with relatively high end gear. Lame is probably the best MP3 encoder, V0 is a very popular variable bitrate choice, as it seems to offer a
nice combination of quality and relatively small file size. For lower bitrates I really prefer AAC/Ogg, which seem to be more efficient and present a greater spectral range at bitrates of 128kpbs and lower. However, keep in mind that they're not compatible with as many players and music programs.


[Sound Descriptors]
[Glossary of Audio Terminology]



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When Asking For Recommendations - keep in mind what has been presented in this section. Be specific, the more specific you are the better suited the recommendation will be for you.

Good recommendation example:
Hello headphone peeps I'm looking for a closed portable headphone to be used mainly for hip hop and rock. I have about two hundred dollars. I live in Europe btw. (You could also insert a nice sound descriptor from the link in there to do illuminate what type of signature you desire).


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PassiveObserver

PassiveObserver

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,175
Haven't had much time with my headphones lately, but I'm rocking Sennheiser HD598s and Denon D600s, and the Xiaomi Hybrid Pros on the go. I prefer the Denons because the 598s make my ear itch. I'm putting on an album and listen to my cans tonight!
 
CthulhuSars

CthulhuSars

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,906
Great to see this. I was about to track you down and pester you till this was up HiResDes but I am afraid my laziness and your work ethic stopped that from happening.

Rules to live by when dealing with headphones and audio gear....

1. law of diminishing returns
2. once you find that headphone/stack combination for a good listening setup stop there. Do not chase that audio quality dragon past where you are satisfied it is not worth it.
3. feed your money towards music after finding that perfect setup. Once you have your stack you just need to feed it to stay happy.
 
Galkinator

Galkinator

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,939
Awesome thread! I need to get one of those headphone stands to complete my desktop.

Currently using Sennheiser HD598Cs for my headphones which are amazing, and I have a pair of Shure SE215 but they don't work well since being like 5-6 years old.
Recently also got MEE M6P for sports but the isolation is pretty bad and I have to keep rearranging them while running - does anyone have a recommendation for good pair of earphones for running I'll switch to? (Not pricey please!)
 

Deleted member 11113

User requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
139
Yeesss, I've been waiting for this thread to pop up!

I currently have some HD650s that I really love the sound of, but I'm actually considering selling them since I only have a schiit fulla amp (the first one) which is starting to die. To be honest, I don't like using an external dac/amp. I have a laptop which I move between the bed, desk and couch, so it's a pain in the ass to have that little dongle on the side, especially since it's started to lose connection unless you hold it just so. It also sucks that the 650s don't sound too good out of my phone. It just makes me want something simpler. I don't have the money or desk-space for a fully sized amp, so I might just see if I can sell my 650s for a pair of 599s which sound about just as good when compared unamped.

Has anyone here ever downgraded their headphones and been satisfied? I'm worried I can never go back below the 650s again...
 
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HiResDes

HiResDes

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,577
I think the X1 sound pretty good unamped, more comparable to the signature of the 650 imo.
 

Ashhong

Member
Oct 26, 2017
16,572
Ah cool, was hoping this thread had popped back up. Asked this right before the other site died I think, but my HD6XX just got shipped so I'm not in a hurry to buy an amp. I really only want to spend $100 and was looking at the Fulla 2. If I'm reading right, this is a DAC/AMP but could also function as just an amp right? Will it be enough for my HD6XX or should I suck it up and spend more?
 
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HiResDes

HiResDes

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,577
Ashhong said:
Ah cool, was hoping this thread had popped back up. Asked this right before the other site died I think, but my HD6XX just got shipped so I'm not in a hurry to buy an amp. I really only want to spend $100 and was looking at the Fulla 2. If I'm reading right, this is a DAC/AMP but could also function as just an amp right? Will it be enough for my HD6XX or should I suck it up and spend more?
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If you absolutely need a portable amp then yeah that's probably your best bet otherwise I'd probably suggest grabbing one of the cheap tubes in the OP. You can find cheap options on eBay too - https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/263043035703
 

Ashhong

Member
Oct 26, 2017
16,572
HiResDes said:
If you absolutely need a portable amp then yeah that's probably your best bet otherwise I'd probably suggest grabbing one of the cheap tubes in the OP. You can find cheap options on eBay too - https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/263043035703
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Do you think the HD6XX need an amp? I would only need it for when I listen on my bed at night after smoking, which is when I usually want to melt into the music haha. I have an old Fiio E11 that doesn't work right but I could probably fix..though I doubt that works well enough. I think I would prefer versatility, and the option to take the amp around though it's not a necessity.

To be clear though, the Fulla 2 is "good enough" to power the HD6XX?
 
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HiResDes

HiResDes

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Oct 25, 2017
1,577
Teacher said:
Unfortunately no, seems to not be stocked anywhere around here anymore. Probably gonna audition the 599s and see what I think. The 595s were my very first proper headphones so I have a fondness for the line. Appreciate the tips!
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Yeah those might be your best bet, probably pretty efficient. Master and Dynamic MH40 is another headphone with that signature but it's quite a bit overpriced at this point.
 
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HiResDes

HiResDes

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,577
Ashhong said:
Do you think the HD6XX need an amp? I would only need it for when I listen on my bed at night after smoking, which is when I usually want to melt into the music haha. I have an old Fiio E11 that doesn't work right but I could probably fix..though I doubt that works well enough. I think I would prefer versatility, and the option to take the amp around though it's not a necessity.

To be clear though, the Fulla 2 is "good enough" to power the HD6XX?
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I guess. I mean it's a safe bet because you can always just use the Fulla as DAC later.
 

Deleted member 11113

User requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
139
HiResDes said:
Yeah those might be your best bet, probably pretty efficient. Master and Dynamic MH40 is another headphone with that signature but it's quite a bit overpriced at this point.
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Yeah at that point I might as well pony up for the HD 660s lol.

Ashhong said:
Do you think the HD6XX need an amp? I would only need it for when I listen on my bed at night after smoking, which is when I usually want to melt into the music haha. I have an old Fiio E11 that doesn't work right but I could probably fix..though I doubt that works well enough. I think I would prefer versatility, and the option to take the amp around though it's not a necessity.

To be clear though, the Fulla 2 is "good enough" to power the HD6XX?
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I have the fulla 1 and a pair of 650s and it does sound really good, but it's a little bit annoying knowing that they could sound a lot better with a bigger, better amp. But as Des points out, you can just use the fulla 2 as a dac later if you feel you need to upgrade, so you might as well try it.
 

Ashhong

Member
Oct 26, 2017
16,572
HiResDes said:
I guess. I mean it's a safe bet because you can always just use the Fulla as DAC later.
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That's a good point. I would always need a DAC, and I could just upgrade with a better amp in the future.

Teacher said:
Yeah at that point I might as well pony up for the HD 660s lol.


I have the fulla 1 and a pair of 650s and it does sound really good, but it's a little bit annoying knowing that they could sound a lot better with a bigger, better amp. But as Des points out, you can just use the fulla 2 as a dac later if you feel you need to upgrade, so you might as well try it.
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I'm assuming a better, fuller amp would cost like 150-200$ on it's own right? This strategy sounds like a good idea. I do want the best possible sound out of the 6XX but it's probably not feasible at this point. I'll save the amp upgrade for when I'm feeling content with the 6XX and am itching to spend money on even better headphones lol. Thanks!
 
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HiResDes

HiResDes

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Oct 25, 2017
1,577
When you get that itch spend more on the amp as you're not really gonna do much better than the HD650 without spending 1k.
 

Ashhong

Member
Oct 26, 2017
16,572
HiResDes said:
When you get that itch spend more on the amp as you're not really gonna do much better than the HD650 without spending 1k.
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Good to know, thanks! I think I might want to try and get the X2 since I remember you recommending that as an open for open headphones for my basshead self, but hopefully the 6XX scratches that itch as well

I don't suppose anyone has a free shipping coupon or something for Schiit? lol
 
Chittagong

Chittagong

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,793
London, UK
Aa yeah, nice to see you move this community over HiResDes. To celebrate the launch of Headphone Era, I'll post the first ever picture of my listening station. DAC is fed by an Autonomic Mirage feed over coax, playing Tidal Masters.

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Ashhong

Member
Oct 26, 2017
16,572
Anyone know how much of an effect the lightning port has on audio quality out of newer iPhones? Plugged in my m50 with new Fulla 2 and was not impressed. Not sure if it's the phone or the amp
 
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HiResDes

HiResDes

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,577
Ashhong said:
Anyone know how much of an effect the lightning port has on audio quality out of newer iPhones? Plugged in my m50 with new Fulla 2 and was not impressed. Not sure if it's the phone or the amp
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I don't think the phone has enough power for it like you'd need to connect it to a dedicated powered hub or different source.
 
Gritesh

Gritesh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
124
I opted in the massdrop hd6xx drop so I'm waiting on those. Don't have alot of money available right now due to entrepreneurship but I just got in the mail today my Schiit Magni 3 to go with the cans.

Hope it all sounds amazing!
 
Jarmel

Jarmel

The Jackrabbit Always Wins
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,267
New York
Hey so I need a pair of bluetooth earbuds and decided on the Sennheiser HD1 Free. I'm wondering if there are any other pairs I should be considering? Those seem like the best as the regular HD1s are near the top in terms of sound quality for bluetooth earbuds.
 
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HiResDes

HiResDes

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,577
Jarmel said:
Hey so I need a pair of bluetooth earbuds and decided on the Sennheiser HD1 Free. I'm wondering if there are any other pairs I should be considering? Those seem like the best as the regular HD1s are near the top in terms of sound quality for bluetooth earbuds.
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Maybe the Meelectronics X8 only because they seem to be a consistent brand i don't use any wireless stuff so I could be completely off base.
 
Darkatomz

Darkatomz

Member
Oct 27, 2017
367
CA
I have a setup for fixed and portable situations, and use EqualizerAPO and Peace to pre-load parametric EQ settings from the AutoEQ archive (Oratory1990 for headphones, Crinacle for IEMs, both of which are professionally derived and benchmarked against the Harman target curve) to the audio DAC I am using. For the listening unit itself, I prefer a flat, neutral sound without overbearing bass; something that can get you as close to the source material as the sound recording engineer intended, all at a great value.

I carry my personal collection of music in 320kbps or its VBR equivalent (FLAC of my favorite albums, otherwise just 16bit/44.1kHz Fs since it would be pretty damn hard to get 24bit/192kHz tracks of my entire catalog); I am in the minority now that I do not stream my music. I also believe in digital audio since I view this as getting closer to the exact source material, and you can do whatever you want on top of it.

My favorite references for beginners include TheHeadphoneList, Headfonia and Headphone.com that don't get into super levels of crazy that many audio forums are notorious for if you are looking to do research into gear purchases. If you want to get technical, you can check out Audio Science Review.


Desktop setup
  • Music Player: iTunes - I know Foobar and some other players would be better options but are not straightforward at all
  • Sound Card: Asus Xonar Essence STX II with Burson Audio V5i's for the I/V and buffer (Uni Xonar drivers with Xonar Switch)
  • Desktop DAC + Amp - Topping DX7 Pro
  • 2x (Active) Bookshelf Speakers: Genelec 8030C
    • Upgraded from Yamaha HS8
  • Speaker Stands: IsoAcoustics ISO-L8R200
  • Subwoofer: Rythmik E15HP - Sealed to optimize for music, they are the only sub company that has integrated current sensing
  • Sub stand: Isocoustics Modular
  • Power Conditioner - Furman AC215A - For the speakers, woofer, and DAC+Amp
  • Open Cans - Focal Clear (Dynamic)

On-The-Go setup
  • iPhone (Kaisertone player)
  • Lightning to USB Cable --> AudioQuest Jitterbug -->
  • USB DAC + Amp: HIDIZS S8
    • Upgraded from AudioQuest Dragonfly Red
  • Custom IEMs: Jerry Harvey JH13v2 Pro
    • Upgraded from HiFiMan RE-400
    • At some point, I want to get a 64 Audio A12t if I feel like spending a bunch of money...

*or Closed Cans - Nuraphone or Nuraloop
  • Using these in BT since in this case I value the convenience of no wires
  • (Effectively) the first digital headphone which uses calibration to personalize your EQ, have to say I am very impressed!
  • The dedicated IEM and ear driver design is brilliant, but could be more comfortable. Would love to see more of this type of design to keep the high and low frequencies separated
  • Newest update adds ANC, external hearing, and BT switching
  • While not relevant to iOS users, these cans uses the apt-X HD spec for BT audio which is close to wireless lossless
  • Given that these generally need to be tied to a cell phone, this makes it hard to interface to traditional computers/laptops/etc
  • Cables could be longer, and I wish they were non-proprietary...
​
​
Retired due to breakage
  • Audio DAC - Chord Mojo (a bit misleading though as it is really an audio FPGA)
    • Can also be used in my desktop setup to drive big speakers if wanted, battery went bad after 18mo
  • Desktop DAC + Amp- Burson Playmate with 2x V6 Classic op-amps for the I/V and 2x V6 Vivid op-amps for the LPF/HP_Vgain
    • Playmate failed twice, first was under warranty
 
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Ashhong

Member
Oct 26, 2017
16,572
HiResDes said:
Yeah, well I don't know what to say lol. Does it sound worse than just listening from the phone directly?
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I wouldn't say worse, but they aren't much better with the Fulla. The lack of bass is what's surprising me. Though the sound quality I think is because of that song lol. Guess the Fulla is making me hear things I couldn't beforr

HiResDes said:
Maybe the Meelectronics X8 only because they seem to be a consistent brand i don't use any wireless stuff so I could be completely off base.
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It's only their budget one but I have the M9B and the wireless is garbage. Battery is garbage too. Not sure I could ever recommend MEE for their wireless
 
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HiResDes

HiResDes

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,577
Are you sure your problem is with the Fulla and not the M50?

Also the X8 supposedly lasts at least 7 hours.
 

Articalys

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,734
What kinds of brands are likely to get decent discounts for Black Friday? Looking to finally actually replace my held-together-by-duct-tape Panasonic RP-HTF600 with something of a similar form factor.
 
Frustrated_Grunt

Frustrated_Grunt

Member
Oct 28, 2017
556
Hey guys. I'm looking for closed headphones that don't need to be portable. I'm going to be using it mostly for gaming (I've got a modmic already) and music. Best thing I've owned was the JVC HARX 700, and I appreciated it's solid bass for the budget price. It's been starting to degrade on me after 7 years. This time I've got about $250 budgeted. Long-term comfort is a plus for gaming marathons (if possible).
 
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HiResDes

HiResDes

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,577
Frustrated_Grunt said:
Hey guys. I'm looking for closed headphones that don't need to be portable. I'm going to be using it mostly for gaming (I've got a modmic already) and music. Best thing I've owned was the JVC HARX 700, and I appreciated it's solid bass for the budget price. It's been starting to degrade on me after 7 years. This time I've got about $250 budgeted. Long-term comfort is a plus for gaming marathons (if possible).
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I'm guessing you'd also like them to be closed?
 

Deleted member 11113

User requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
139
Got a pair of Sennheiser HD 599s today and I'm very impressed by them. Comparing them to my HD650s I can notice that the 650s are a bit more detailed, but the 599s have a more exciting treble response and a wider soundstage while still being able to pull off bass and mids more or less like the 650s. Keep in mind I only have a Schiit Fulla to power them, though, and I'm far from an expert. To my ears, they both sound fantastic, but I'm gonna go with the 599s since I can use them with my 3DS and phone, too. Sometime far in the future I might consider upgrading to a 650 or 660s together with a proper amp, but for now I'm satisfied with the 599s.
 

Ashhong

Member
Oct 26, 2017
16,572
HiResDes said:
Are you sure your problem is with the Fulla and not the M50?

Also the X8 supposedly lasts at least 7 hours.
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That's a good question. I've realized now that I have never used an amp without an equalizer of some sorts. My first basic amp was a Fiio and I always used the bass boost. When I plug it into my computers soundcard I also equalize it and increase the bass. So when I plugged it into the Fulla I was missing that bass that I was used to. What should I use to play with the EQ on my computer? Do I have to do it in every music playing app or is there a way to change it throughout Windows? Right now I'm using my soundcards program but obviously that won't work anymore..
 
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HiResDes

HiResDes

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,577
I don't know personally. I know you can change it in programs like poweramp, iTunes, musicbee, but not so sure about one program that does it for everything... I really don't ever EQ. If I don't like a way headphone sounds I usually try to find a way to get rid of it.
 
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