I'm guessing they didn't mind much priest because many of their useful cards of that deck (and most other decks) are going away with rotation, making the class much worse.
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I'm guessing they didn't mind much priest because many of their useful cards of that deck (and most other decks) are going away with rotation, making the class much worse.
The deck archetype dies with rotation, but I agree. It certainly meets the standard for nerfs based on these other cards.
Just imagine, instead of nerfing staple cards into uselessness, Blizzard was rotating those same cards BACK into the Standard pool after rotating them out a couple years ago to make room for new cards. We'd all be so excited because Cold Blood is BACK, baby, imagine what we could do with it and the current meta.
The Hearthstone team must eventually learn that a card game cannot have an evergreen set of powerful cards that are always standard legal. Doing so requires nerfing or banning those cards piecemeal, because otherwise getting them out of decks only happens by printing even more powerful cards, and then it's a power creep death spiral where 1 mana 2/2s aren't good enough unless they battlecry a token or deathrattle cantrip.
No way to reduce the cost of the spell or to generate coins, though.
But I'm with you. Mind Blast is a shitty card that is only useful as part of some gross combo play.
I think the nerfs are fine. At first I wasn't happy with them but I think they're kinda good. We'll see. I am happy to see them doing more nerfs though.
Maybe because pyro is also evergreen so that means pally always has a 4 mana board wipe.
But yeah...when I started playing HS when it first started pally for the longest time was my favorite class, mostly for the midrange or control shells. It's been so flood focused for so long now that outside of the otk deck seeing them kill one of their good control tools really hurts.
The card is strong af. I am only surprised it took them this long.
I was already pretty much breaking up with Hearthstone over the last months, this gives me the final kick out the door. Now see what they'll do to slam the door shut. But these nerfs are one more reminder that Hearthstone won't suddenly become a game I want to play again because Blizzard lacks either a clear direction or the will to follow through on what they really want to do.
I wonder what the game would look like if the basic set just suddenly wasn't standard. I know some of the Shaman decks that Kibler has tried barely run any basic cards but I think most successful decks are running quite a few. I'm thinking of Kibler's Dragon/Elemental/Evolve decks btw.
EDIT: I'm thinking classic and basic actually.
EDIT: I'm thinking classic and basic actually.
a nerf should be justified more than just "its a strong card" because going by that reason we would not have a whole lot of other cards, the reason should be that they are powerful and also in a very dominant deck.
This time they are justifying it by saying the card goes into 100% of pally decks which I really disagree, but also has the flaw that by that readon just rotate the set because many of those cards are used predominantly in many decks.
It has been present in very dominant decks. Aside from that, it's in the classic/evergreen set. They also did not say it's in every deck. Saying it's auto-include doesn't literally mean it's automatically included in every list possible, especially when there are deck building restrictions on some decks.
"We're changing these particular cards because each one has been highly prevalent, regardless of what strategies have been popular or what other cards have existed around them. When Basic and Classic cards become this ubiquitous, they take away some of the flexibility players have when building decks, ultimately stifling the diversity of decks we see when playing Hearthstone.
The following changes are intended to shift these cards from general-purpose "auto-includes" into options that are more likely to be chosen for decks that are focused on strategies that capitalize on what these cards have to offer."
I don't even care what their explanation is TBH, but they're right in saying equality is auto-include status for most lists and that even includes midrange for most metas where midrange was strong. I think equality had it a long time coming, and I say this as someone who has like 2k paladin wins.
I blame Iksar. He's been the most vocal against evergreen cards since the days when you would rally against Keeper of the Grove, Ancient of Lore and Swipe in Druid. Now that he's been promoted he won't rest until Basic/Classic cards make up no more than 3,4% of any given deck!
It is the best and most important card in the best and most popular deck in the game at the moment: https://hsreplay.net/decks/doHrCqR4WuwhVkgoWnr4Pg/
I'm not sad that that deck will have slightly lowered power level over the next two months before rotation.
2 months isn't exactly a short amount of time to be putting up with bullshit.
Granted, I honestly don't mind Hunter at all, but it will be nice to see less of them since I'll likely play the class more. Been championing even hunter for a long time, so the nerf kinda benefits me.
So.... what the fuck does shaman play now? Dead class until the new expansion?
Damn, Cold Blood won me games yesterday. lol Push this as fast as I can next season...
I'm relatively new to HS (started during Witchwood and fell off a bit for Booms) and CCGs generally, but why nerf at all? Just power creep new expansions until no one wants to play the Classic set. Or make cards that are similar to the Classic, but balanced for the current state of the game.
I have noticed that cards get nerfed, the community complains, and then with a new rotation we start to see those cards get played. CtA, anyone?
I'm relatively new to HS (started during Witchwood and fell off a bit for Booms) and CCGs generally, but why nerf at all? Just power creep new expansions until no one wants to play the Classic set. Or make cards that are similar to the Classic, but balanced for the current state of the game.
I have noticed that cards get nerfed, the community complains, and then with a new rotation we start to see those cards get played. CtA, anyone?
What the actual fuck at Flametongue Totem being nerfed.
Frankly, none of these nerfs needed to happen. Even Spellstone, bullshit as it is.
Frankly, none of these nerfs needed to happen. Even Spellstone, bullshit as it is.
I'm sorry, but fuck that. The moment they nerf Mind Blast is the moment I peace out.
Honestly at this point I'm not sure why they're not doing this. I really dislike it when they nerf cards from the classic set just move to wild and leave them alone please
Edit: I mean classic Class cards specifically just move them to wild and come up with something else to mix it up. And equality nerf is pretty harsh but as long as pyro exists it will always have a place in control pally
So flametongue was nerfed because of even Shaman in wild I assume? Seems like a pretty brutal shot to the class as a whole.
Iksar claims that equality going to 4 and not 3 had nothing to do with Baku.
Ok buddy. We believe you.
Ok buddy. We believe you.
Yeah I don't think Mind Blast is that bad, but Shadow Visions makes it kind of busted. I had 7 Mind Blasts in my hand the other day. GG's
I'd better get the rest of my Priest games in before the meta turns on it.
Straight from Iksar:
The goal of the Classic/Basic set is no longer to provide players with a solid foundation for their collection and decks they want to build. It is simply an educational stepping-stone before you get ready to spend gold and money on expansion packs. Meeting the expectation players like me have of being able to play our favorite cards and decks forever in Wild has stopped being important, no matter that we have that expectation because it was a promise made with the introduction of Wild.
The goal of the Classic/Basic set is no longer to provide players with a solid foundation for their collection and decks they want to build. It is simply an educational stepping-stone before you get ready to spend gold and money on expansion packs. Meeting the expectation players like me have of being able to play our favorite cards and decks forever in Wild has stopped being important, no matter that we have that expectation because it was a promise made with the introduction of Wild.
They can serve multiple purposes. Classic still fills the role of filler stuff, even when the cards are not top tier.
Yup. Makes me regret actually spending money on this game to make a wild deck.
At least they probably won't nerf the classic legendaries, because God forgive they actually dust refund for a legendary these days.
Can't wait to see the justification when the "filler stuff" also gets nerfed. The devs have already established that they will nerf good classic cards regardless of the current meta.
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Probably about as hard as Pirate Warrior was hurt by losing Fire war axe.
Except all the new nerfs are on cards that are good in the current meta and would likely be very good in the upcoming rotation's meta as well. These cards have also been quite literally gold standard cards in many if not all past metas where their class saw play.
Pirate warrior stands to gain quite a lot from a reduction in even shaman and odd rogue. Even shaman will still beat it though.
Fine with the nerfs. Way less egregious than the last time when Giggling Inventor and Aviana were obliterated, as they're two of my favorite cards in the game.
nope, the only special bundle that could be repeated in the past was the Get In Here bundle, the rest can only be purchased once
Thanks.
Re: Kibler. I watched the latest Omni/Stone and he doesn't think the nerfs themselves are bad, just the way Blizz is going about nerfing the cards. The discussion was interesting as they were arguing that the hardcore players are being held down by the (super)casual players and Blizz not wanting to eliminate cards from their decks. Which is what would happen if Classic or Basic rotated out. I think it came down to change everything now, and drive players away, or do incremental changes, piss people off, but they will stay around as the game is still relatively stable.
Kibler is pretty tuned in on this aspect of game balancing. He is usually right on the money as to which specific cards create the problems, and what those problems actually are. For a long time, Blizzard wouldn't acknowledge problems because they would claim that the overall winrate with some deck was only around 50%, ignoring the reality of playing HS at a medium to high level. They've thankfully evolved past this.
The next step, though, is to find a way to shake up the Classic/Basic sets without removing them completely. I think the best solution is to do a true revision/reissue of those sets. Remove the troublesome cards, add in some new vanilla cards, and some cards from Naxx, GvG, and other older sets. And just give those cards to everyone who has unlocked the basic set. Who wouldn't be in favor of that?
Cat Party Yes, that seems reasonable, but is Team 5 big enough to do that? Or maybe delay an expansion and use that time to work on a new Basic/Classic... how much could they change class identity, though?
I hate stupid AF misplays... Buddha, please... I'd go into detail but it would just sound like bad beat tales, and I'm not paying anyone to listen to them. lol
I hate stupid AF misplays... Buddha, please... I'd go into detail but it would just sound like bad beat tales, and I'm not paying anyone to listen to them. lol
I think a legendary swap would work to some extent. Malygos is a problem they seem to balance around without changing the card. Why not just make new Classic legendaries and either make people craft them or swap them 1:1 in collections.
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