Hearthstone: Rise of Shadows |OT| Out with the Baku, in with the Boom

squidyj

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,566
Yo, if I was purple I would be so fucking mad right now. Fighting through 8 Devastators 2 set up fatigue lethal on the next turn only to be robbed by the turn limit. Holyshit
 

Won

Member
Oct 27, 2017
361
I always held the opinion that you need to possess a very special mindset to endure all the bullshit that competitive Hearthstone throws at you. Being good at card games is just a secondary skill.
 

squidyj

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,566
I don't normally say things like this but that Rase Purple match was an absolute Clown Fiesta.
 

Wiibomb

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,304
so, not sure if you guys check reddit, but someone found there is a promo on Gamestop in US, if you buy $20 from a store you can ask for a 10 classic pack code, I can't get it because I don't live in US, but if you do go get it.

this is the image of the promo
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,329
so, not sure if you guys check reddit, but someone found there is a promo on Gamestop in US, if you buy $20 from a store you can ask for a 10 classic pack code, I can't get it because I don't live in US, but if you do go get it.

this is the image of the promo
I haven't stepped inside of a GameStop in many many years, and I'm not eager to. But I probably would do this if there was something I wanted to buy.

Maybe I can find a new Switch game to buy or something.
 

KillstealWolf

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
4,475
It's been awhile now since the last card, did the Shaman Legendary just get leaked early? Are we still doing the standard gap between initial reveal, then 2-3 weeks of regular reveals after that point?
 

Wiibomb

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,304
It's been awhile now since the last card, did the Shaman Legendary just get leaked early? Are we still doing the standard gap between initial reveal, then 2-3 weeks of regular reveals after that point?
the shaman quest got revealed in an instagram post about a day after the reveal video.

it's hard to say if we are going to get the normal gap, because team 5 loves to mix things all the time, but it looks like we should this time.

Also, they have been better at communicating so for example there is a reddit AMA with the team today and probably there will be a video this week about a card or 2 before the spoiler season
I haven't stepped inside of a GameStop in many many years, and I'm not eager to. But I probably would do this if there was something I wanted to buy.

Maybe I can find a new Switch game to buy or something.
well... if you can get 2 $20 purchases (2 codes, then) then I could buy you 1 of them, it's just 1 code per account anyway.
 

razakin

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
105
Finland
Thanks to FIRE FEST-E.V.I.L. starting soon, people who missed the Ragnaros-cardback can soon get it, plus Saviors of Uldum packs for beating bosses in the brawl, and golden cards. And some new legendary quests, so clear your quests people.
 

Wiibomb

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,304
Thanks to FIRE FEST-E.V.I.L. starting soon, people who missed the Ragnaros-cardback can soon get it, plus Saviors of Uldum packs for beating bosses in the brawl, and golden cards. And some new legendary quests, so clear your quests people.
my goodness, another good event, they are giving a lot of value (although not as much as past fire festivals) and also some really nice bralws, tomorrow's brawl is like a mini dalaran heist
 
OP
OP
manhack

manhack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
578
  • A brand-new player vs. player Tavern Brawl where only the best decks remain at the top of the mountain. Queue up to receive a random deck. Then, if you lose, you’ll use the deck that defeated you in your next match. Which decks will survive The Burndown?
Pretty great idea for a Brawl. It would be amazing if there was a leaderboard or way to track decks and player. I imagine some streamers would like to try and go infinite with something like this. Hmm...

At some point would there only be one deck being played by everyone who plays more than once?
 

Cat Party

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,609
Pretty great idea for a Brawl. It would be amazing if there was a leaderboard or way to track decks and player. I imagine some streamers would like to try and go infinite with something like this. Hmm...

At some point would there only be one deck being played by everyone who plays more than once?
Every time a player plays for the first time, he or she will get a new random deck, so there will be a constant supply of new decks into the pool.

But this sounds incredibly fun. I hope Blizzard tracks the decks that are played by the most people.
 

FallenHeroX1

Member
Oct 27, 2017
818
Well that was fun. Finished in 31 minutes on my first run with togwaggle. It's a shame that it was over so quickly. Quite excited for the new expansion with how active the hearthstone team has been.
 

Yaboosh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,533
3 bad draws seems bad but avoiding fatigue while doing good control stuff seems good.

Earthquake is cool flavor.
 

Wiibomb

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,304
because of the nature of current deathrattles (a lot giving 1/1s), earthquake can become a very powerful AoE
 

Toxi

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
8,115
Plague of death is way better....

This card is not good enough against good mage turns. That might be enough to stop it from seeing much play.
The difference between 7 mana and 9 mana for a board clear is massive; that's 2 extra turns of getting beat down before it's available. While you're right that Earthquake has trouble with good mage turns, it's still excellent at 7 mana. You get it a turn later than Dragonfire Potion, but it hits 7 toughness minions and sticky minions. For a card like this not to be played, the other board clear options for Shaman have to be absurdly good.
 

Toxi

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
8,115
I am confused. Plague of death is bad at 9 mana? It's a complete board reset, the same way psychic scream was, minus the downside of psychic scream. At 8 mana that card would be straight broken. Psychic scream was already too good at 7 btw. How is that bad?
Psychic Scream's "downside" was actually incredible against the kinds of decks that you most needed a board wipe against, since you filled your opponent's deck with garbage draws. It was bad against control decks, but that's why decks playing Psychic Scream had proactive win conditions to take out control decks before fatigue.

Again, the difference between 7 and 9 mana is two whole turns of beatdown before you can play a board wipe. And when you reach 9 mana, you're at the point where games have the possibility to end before you're able to even cast it.
 

Wiibomb

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,304
speaking in just raw terms, plague of death has a lot more value, it was infinite damage and silence in one card, earthquake is 5 + 2 damage, for 2 extra mana is pretty good.

next meta will see how it turn outs, but I don't see plague of death bad at all
 

Yaboosh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,533
Psychic scream is the strongest board clear the game has ever seen. So sure, it's not better than psychic scream. Only defile even comes close.
 

benj

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,691
not only does psychic scream go out earlier, later on priest can actually use three mana to develop things that are important to their gameplan in a lot of cases. or squeeze in a hero power, which ain't nothing. something costing 2 more mana is a huge deal on its own—the difference between 7 and 9 is especially exaggerated
 

Toxi

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
8,115
speaking in just raw terms, plague of death has a lot more value, it was infinite damage and silence in one card, earthquake is 5 + 2 damage, for 2 extra mana is pretty good.

next meta will see how it turn outs, but I don't see plague of death bad at all
Plague of Death is Twisting Nether that ignores Deathrattles for 1 more mana (Which again, means a lot for a board wipe; you will often die before you can even play Plague of Death). I really don't see it ever being more than a 1 of for certain matchups. Even if it does clear giants, it's still 9 mana and the giants start turn 4.
not only does psychic scream go out earlier, later on priest can actually use three mana to develop things that are important to their gameplan in a lot of cases. or squeeze in a hero power, which ain't nothing. something costing 2 more mana is a huge deal on its own—the difference between 7 and 9 is especially exaggerated
I feel like so many people don't realize this.

A 7 mana board wipe can end an aggro deck's late game. A 9 mana board wipe is often a completely dead card against aggro. It's like 4 mana vs 6 mana board wipes in Magic the Gathering, except even more extreme.

Psychic scream is the strongest board clear the game has ever seen. So sure, it's not better than psychic scream. Only defile even comes close.
Not that Psychic Scream wasn't amazing, but much of the power behind it came from Shadow Visions providing 2 extra copies than anything else. You just never saw your opponent generate the Scream they used on you.
 

Wiibomb

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,304
you are comparing plague of death to psychic scream when they are vastly different, and one of them is even out of standard,

also.

Plague of Death is Twisting Nether that ignores Deathrattles for 1 more mana (Which again, means a lot for a board wipe; you will often die before you can even play Plague of Death). I really don't see it ever being more than a 1 of for certain matchups. Even if it does clear giants, it's still 9 mana and that means a lot.
card design doesn't work on how early you want an AoE, it works evaluating the amount of stuff you put in a card. twisting nether costs 8 mana, that is the unlimited quitesencial AoE, you cannot expect plague of death to simply cost the same or lower, that doesn't work like that on card design. for just 1 mana you have the added effect of silencing everything.


besides.... there is mass hysteria.
 

Toxi

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
8,115
card design doesn't work on how early you want an AoE, it works evaluating the amount of stuff you put in a card. twisting nether costs 8 mana, that is the unlimited quitesencial AoE, you cannot expect plague of death to simply cost the same or lower, that doesn't work like that on card design. for just 1 mana you have the added effect of silencing everything.


besides.... there is mass hysteria.
Yes, it does. Mana cost is one of the main balancing factors in the game because it affects how early you can play cards, not just how many cards you can play in one turn. If Psychic Scream cost 8 mana, it would be good but far less powerful just because it would no longer relieve pressure on turn 6/7.

And yes, it would be weird for Plague of Death to cost the same as Twisting Nether when the effect is strictly better, but when Twisting Nether is a mediocre card at best at 8 mana and Plague of Death is 1 more, I don't think the mass silencing is enough to make it playable. Even if it finds some play based on good meta matchups, it's nowhere near the shot in the arm the Priest class badly needs right now
 

Wiibomb

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,304
you are literally discribing powercreep in current sets, again, that doesn't work how you think it works, power creep can happen easily on cards from older sets, when a certain amount of time has passed, injecting power creep on sets that are on standard just won't happen, Team 5 talks eveytime on how certain cards limit their space and in this case twisting nether is the base on how AoE works.

also... there is mass hysteria.
 

benj

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,691
wiibomb, I don't think you're totally understanding the terms of the conversation. It feels like you're trying to analyze Plague of Death in a vacuum—to just think about it in terms of some abstract concept of value relative to mana cost. analyzing a card's strengths is all about situations and contexts—boards that you'd want to play it on, turns you want it available on, plays that it opens into, win conditions it enables. card games aren't just about what card does the most for the least mana, they're specifically about how individual factors impact board state and resource availability. saying "Plague of Death is Twisting Nether but with a stronger effect for 1 more mana" seems, to me, to be very confused about...the actual material situations in which cards are played and what they're intended to do

Mass Hysteria is a profoundly different card, and the fact that you keep mentioning it as if it's some kind of mic drop makes it seem like you don't really understand Toxi's argument
 

Toxi

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
8,115
you are literally discribing powercreep in current sets, again, that doesn't work how you think it works, power creep can happen easily on cards from older sets, when a certain amount of time has passed, injecting power creep on sets that are on standard just won't happen, Team 5 talks eveytime on how certain cards limit their space and in this case twisting nether is the base on how AoE works.
It's fine for Twisting Nether to be the baseline if the game slows down to the point that Twisting Nether is actually a solid card.

The problem is Twisting Nether is not a solid card right now, and 1 mana more for Silence is not enough to make it a solid card because of how much 1 mana more means for a board wipe. The main point of a board wipe is to save you from your opponent's board, and the more expensive the board wipe, the more time that board has to threaten you.

also... there is mass hysteria.
I mean, that's the other problem. Mass Hysteria isn't working. I wouldn't be complaining about a 9 mana board wipe if Priest wasn't total shit right now. The recent AMA Team 5 did also shows they don't have a clue what to actually do with the class.

wiibomb, I don't think you're totally understanding the terms of the conversation. It feels like you're trying to analyze Plague of Death in a vacuum—to just think about it in terms of some abstract concept of value relative to mana cost. analyzing a card's strengths is all about situations and contexts—boards that you'd want to play it on, turns you want it available on, plays that it opens into, win conditions it enables. card games aren't just about what card does the most for the least mana, they're specifically about how individual factors impact board state and resource availability. saying "Plague of Death is Twisting Nether but with a stronger effect for 1 more mana" seems, to me, to be very confused about...the actual material situations in which cards are played and what they're intended to do

Mass Hysteria is a profoundly different card, and the fact that you keep mentioning it as if it's some kind of mic drop makes it seem like you don't really understand Toxi's argument
I feel part of it is you have to actually play a control deck to understand why a board wipe being available a turn earlier is so good. When you got a Psychic Scream and coin with Priest against an aggro/midrange deck last rotation, it didn't matter what you wanted to do, you kept that coin for a turn 6 Scream because the other option was surviving three turns of Fungalmancer beatdown.

I don't think a card like Psychic Scream should be reprinted at the current meta power level, but Plague of Death just isn't the option Priest has needed since rotation.
 
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squidyj

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,566
I feel part of it is you have to actually play a control deck to understand why a board wipe being available a turn earlier is so good.
I think if anything playing an aggro deck actually makes this more clear.
The difference between "he's dead next turn" and "oh, my board is gone" is pretty stark.
 

squidyj

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,566
The only times you’ll be even seeing Plague of Death with aggro is when you’ve already lost.
I mean murloc shaman can and will generate enough value to take you to fatigue so not so much
2. I don't know what you're even trying to say. I was agreeing that the turn an aoe comes down is very important and +1 mana can be the difference between necessary and unplayable.
3. The way the game is played today wiping a board with no development behind your clear is probably still a losing play unless you're building towards a combo wincon.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,935
Plague of death is not meant to combat aggro. I think that is just obvious. It's strength lies in the insane value/threat it has. Mind control was pretty broke at 8 mana, despite being weak af to aggro. I think this is comparable power level and 9 is appropriate. 10 would likely be too much.

Of course the caveat is always there, will priest see play and will this fit the meta. But I think it's definitely good enough to see play. It's not just it's impact when you play it, but your opponent will sometimes play around it and slow their gameplan down. Hell, anduin DK was often good for board clear alone. This board clear doesn't deal with what exactly? I am happy it costs 9. We don't need psychic scream power cards... and this is borderline imo.
 
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OP
manhack

manhack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
578
Hi folks, I found an interesting article on r/competitivehs. Thought it might come in handy for anybody looking to climb on a low budget.

Legend-capable budget decks for late Rise of Shadows meta

6: Mech Zoo (1420 dust + SN1P-SN4P):
5: Mech Token Druid (1300 dust + SN1P-SN4P):
4: Bomb Hunter (1760 dust + SN1P-SN4P):
3: Tempo Rogue (1440 dust):
2: Silence Priest (1240 dust):
1: Midrange Hunter (1120 dust):

Also in the comments:

 

Wiibomb

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,304
Hi folks, I found an interesting article on r/competitivehs. Thought it might come in handy for anybody looking to climb on a low budget.

Legend-capable budget decks for late Rise of Shadows meta

6: Mech Zoo (1420 dust + SN1P-SN4P):
5: Mech Token Druid (1300 dust + SN1P-SN4P):
4: Bomb Hunter (1760 dust + SN1P-SN4P):
3: Tempo Rogue (1440 dust):
2: Silence Priest (1240 dust):
1: Midrange Hunter (1120 dust):

Also in the comments:

really nice article, thanks, I'll send it to a friend that is just starting the game
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,007
Southern California
The Mage quest is already triggering me. At least it's not discover I guess.

Interesting that Shaman and Warlock are going to lean heavily into lackey synergy. Curious to see what other support they print and if it's all just going to fit into aggro/tempo type decks or not.
 

Wiibomb

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,304
the mage quest I don't expect to be played on competitive at all...

giving random spells just doesn't work towards anything. It'll be pretty fun, but i don't think it'll work on competitive
 

SnugTeam6

Member
Oct 25, 2017
450
United States
Mage quest looks stupid and not very strong, but you know I'm gonna play it anyways because that stuff is my jam.

Weaponized Wasp looks great, easy early drop for tempo gain.

Bees looks solid I think? Was a bit tough to understand all the uses, even with the clips they showed.