Hearthstone: Madness at the Darkmoon Faire |OT|: New Old Gods, Same Old Value

[DyslexicAlucard]

16k dust is about enough for 1.5 to 2 of the most expensive control meta decks at any given point (more if you're playing cheaper things, usually aggro). 2k gold is 20 packs which is a fair amount, but maybe better served as a resource for spending on arenas than direct packs. If you're even halfway decent it'll be more efficient/last longer than directly buying packs of the current set, and if you're good enough you can go infinite or near infinite.

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While this is true, the time investment required per run in a mode I don't particularly enjoy means I just use my gold directly on packs. If I ever needed more, I'd just buy them outright (although that hasn't been a problem since I started buying a majority of preorder bundles.) It's much more time efficient than grinding Arena.

If you like Arena though, it's a solid way to go.

 

[Deleted member 38227]

16k dust is about enough for 1.5 to 2 of the most expensive control meta decks at any given point (more if you're playing cheaper things, usually aggro). 2k gold is 20 packs which is a fair amount, but maybe better served as a resource for spending on arenas than direct packs. If you're even halfway decent it'll be more efficient/last longer than directly buying packs of the current set, and if you're good enough you can go infinite or near infinite.

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Thanks for the info. 20 packs can net extra dust, too.

If you like Arena though, it's a solid way to go.

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I'm shit at Arena. Though the rewards are good.

 

[DyslexicAlucard]

16k dust is about enough for 1.5 to 2 of the most expensive control meta decks at any given point (more if you're playing cheaper things, usually aggro). 2k gold is 20 packs which is a fair amount, but maybe better served as a resource for spending on arenas than direct packs. If you're even halfway decent it'll be more efficient/last longer than directly buying packs of the current set, and if you're good enough you can go infinite or near infinite.

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I also wanted to touch on the bolded a bit. It's absolutely true that a deck costs that much if made from scratch. However, most decks reuse a lot of cards from earlier sets, especially classic, which brings the cost down substantially when you build up a base of cards. This is why I worry about the new and returning player experience.

I have enough cards that I can "fill in the gaps" easily when a new deck is released. But if I didn't have such a large base to work from, that would be much more difficult. It's why I'm hesitant to fully back Brian Kibler's idea only allow a small portion of Basic and Classic cards in Standard at time. While I agree it would make the meta more diverse year over year, it can also explode the cost for both new and especially returning players.

I already worry about leaving the game for a bit because I may get too far behind as it is. I can't imagine how bad it'd be if I left and all new meta decks required new cards almost exclusively.

It's kind of a Catch-22, and I don't know if there's a perfect solution that makes everyone happy.

 

[Tachya]

I also wanted to touch on the bolded a bit. It's absolutely true that a deck costs that much if made from scratch. However, most decks reuse a lot of cards from earlier sets, especially classic, which brings the cost down substantially when you build up a base of cards. This is why I worry about the new and returning player experience.

I have enough cards that I can "fill in the gaps" easily when a new deck is released. But if I didn't have such a large base to work from, that would be much more difficult. It's why I'm hesitant to fully back Brian Kibler's idea only allow a small portion of Basic and Classic cards in Standard at time. While I agree it would make the meta more diverse year over year, it can also explode the cost for both new and especially returning players.

I already worry about leaving the game for a bit because I may get too far behind as it is. I can't imagine how bad it'd be if I left and all new meta decks required new cards almost exclusively.

It's kind of a Catch-22, and I don't know if there's a perfect solution that makes everyone happy.

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You're absolutely correct. Even though I might not have as much of the latest expansions, I still have a very full set of classic cards and don't have to worry about crafting consistent staples like Brawl, as an epic, for example.

It's part of why having classic be evergreen is kinda good, but also kinda dangerous and why we occasionally see nerfs now, even though there shouldn't be adjustments to it in an ideal world.

It's an odd spot. Especially since Wild is clearly not something that is balanced around or taken very seriously.

The (paper) MtG formats are typically much better at this point. Most people realistically play standard or current set/current block. There's always reprints of some kinds now, but not much from Alpha or earlier MtG is reprinted at the same power level, if the mechanic is even still in the game.

RIP Banding and other overly-complex keywords and mechanics. I think cumulative upkeep isn't used anymore either, or phasing as it was originally constructed.

 

[Won]

There are plenty of ways to solve the returning/new player problem. As example other games offer premade decks after a new expansion for cheap (or even for free), which makes it easy to jump straight back into the game with brand new cards.

The F2P model offers a lot of opportunities to developers to deliver value to players at a low price. Blizzard just likes to play stupid.

 

[Tachya]

There are plenty of ways to solve the returning/new player problem. As example other games offer premade decks after a new expansion for cheap (or even for free), which makes it easy to jump straight back into the game with brand new cards.

The F2P model offers a lot of opportunities to developers to deliver value to players at a low price. Blizzard just likes to play stupid.

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Blizzard is extremely arrogant and stubborn so bolded x1000.

 

[Fer]

Hmmm..
What about a new standard with (mostly) new classic cards to slowly push current standard out? Like in rotation. That would probably be too confusing for players.

I prefer the idea of a new standard with a new classic set taking over and giving people a random set of cards to smooth the transition. If Blizzard is greedy then give everyone a whizbang kind of card to let them play and accumulate the new stuff slowly. Or do both.

 

[Tachya]

Hmmm..
What about a new standard with (mostly) new classic cards to slowly push current standard out? Like in rotation. That would probably be too confusing for players.

I prefer the idea of a new standard with a new classic set taking over and giving people a random set of cards to smooth the transition. If Blizzard is greedy then give everyone a whizbang kind of card to let them play and accumulate the new stuff slowly. Or do both.

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So something like Modern in paper Magic? Could maybe work. But they didn't trust the players with extra deck slots forever, so seems unlikely to happen.

 

[Mobius and Pet Octopus]

One thing HS has going for it is that you can play jank up to high ranks, even top legend if you're a top tier player.

 

[Luminish]

One thing HS has going for it is that you can play jank up to high ranks, even top legend if you're a top tier player.

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Probably more difficult than almost any other card game though. The netdecking is intense in hearthstone, and the netdecks are extremely good. It's a pretty large gap to have to fill with skill if you use a suboptimal deck.

Shadowverse and Elder Scrolls Legends are so incredibly easy in comparison, where most people don't netdeck and the netdecks that are out there are extremely unrefined.

 

[Schreckstoff]

That sounds like nonsense. If there's a substantial playerbase then people will netdecks and the laddering be indistinguishable from other games with a substantial playerbase.

HS isn't any easier to make legend than it is to make mythic in mtg arena.

 

[Deleted member 38227]

Odd Rogue is not completely dead in this meta. It took me a while, but I hit Rank 15. Highest rank I have hit on ladder. I think I got lucky with matchups today, though.

 

[VoxPop]

Ugh can't buy a win. Just rank 10 but I'm dealing with some seriously shit RNG and monster openers for my opponents. What is going on?!

 

[DassoBrother]

Busted out Pirate Kingsbane and it was putting in work from ranks 10 to 8. Only lost 1 game. Faced Priests and Druids though which is pretty weird. I dunno if it'd be fast enough to kill Hunter. Won every game by turn 7.

I don't play much aggro. Mostly control or combo but it's a nice change and really gets my heart pumping.

 

[The Mango Sentinel]

There's so many things they could add to this game, but one thing I would enjoy very much is an actual practice mode where I can test any and all interactions.

People would probably be able to come up with their own decks way way easier.

 

[VoxPop]

Wow drawing nothing till 8 mana that I have to play 2 mass hysterias against an empty board, buff his minions with power word to finally get a northshire cleric. Lol this game.

 

[The Mango Sentinel]

Wow drawing nothing till 8 mana that I have to play 2 mass hysterias against an empty board, buff his minions with power word to finally get a northshire cleric. Lol this game.

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Just how the game is sometimes.

My favorite is when I need one specific card really bad that would win me the game and I never get it...but it's in my opening hand the next game.

Been having fun against all these Wall Priest or whatever the fuck they are. I made a Hunter deck that seems to counter it. It was completely unintentional, but realising it was very funny.

 

[Tachya]

Busted out Pirate Kingsbane and it was putting in work from ranks 10 to 8. Only lost 1 game. Faced Priests and Druids though which is pretty weird. I dunno if it'd be fast enough to kill Hunter. Won every game by turn 7.

I don't play much aggro. Mostly control or combo but it's a nice change and really gets my heart pumping.

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I loved Kingsbane at its height as a sort of high-risk combo/aggro deck. It was so good that it took multiple nerfs to various cards and kept coming back in some form each expansion for awhile. Same deal as Miracle Rogue, and Kingsbane overlapped a lot of elements with a fairly high skill cap compared to many other decks. It could be effectively countered by decks with lots of healing, sticky taunts, or armor/extra life gain, but still had a chance to pull out wins against those if the stars aligned and it was played right.

Of course Blizzard can't allow high skill cap decks or anything really in recent years (across most of their games), even with fairly clear and effective counters, so of course they nerfed it down. I'm not saying. Rogue or other classes/decks haven't been completely stupid either at times, but Blizz is always either way too subtle with nerfs and eventually has to nerf successively until they finally use a sledgehammer and delete cards, or even if they do get the balance right, they then print another card that's OP or shores up the weaknesses of the previous (usually mana-cost related) nerfs. They're hardly ever "just right". Or "just right" doesn't last for long.

There's so many things they could add to this game, but one thing I would enjoy very much is an actual practice mode where I can test any and all interactions.

People would probably be able to come up with their own decks way way easier.

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That would be nice but it seems unlikely to happen with the current state of development since it would be a net negative on direct financials. It's not something you could sell or something people would really buy like they do card packs, so it's not gonna happen.

 

[VoxPop]

Just how the game is sometimes.

My favorite is when I need one specific card really bad that would win me the game and I never get it...but it's in my opening hand the next game.

Been having fun against all these Wall Priest or whatever the fuck they are. I made a Hunter deck that seems to counter it. It was completely unintentional, but realising it was very funny.

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Yep I know. Just really frustrating it keeps happening and I can't for the life of me get out of rank 10 which is just silly.

I actually made an anti wall priest Mage for fun and I have run into zero of them since. Lame.

 

[Deleted member 4367]

Today's the last day for good quests right?

 

[Deleted member 38227]

Today's the last day for good quests right?

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Yup. Unless they extend it again.

 

[Deleted member 38227]

Good brawl this week. Priest is OP, though.

 

[kazinova]

I had four quests when I logged on at lunch, then the brawl one went away. The heck?

 

[Deleted member 4367]

I had four quests when I logged on at lunch, then the brawl one went away. The heck?

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It's probably still there. Did you try playing a brawl?

 

[DassoBrother]

I won my first one as Warrior and got a classic pack (as expected). I conceded in the first few turns of the next couple matches and finished the quest. I was trying out Priest but the Paladins I was against both times adapter their shrine early to get +attack and +poison so I felt pretty shut out.

Should've taken a screenshot of the one I won too. I got my Linecracker to 640 damage for lethal.

 

[kazinova]

I'll try playing a brawl later tonight. But when I hit my quest button only the three "normal" quests appear and after clearing on out I'm down to two.

 

[SnugTeam6]

So uh, Wall Priest is pretty damn good, huh.

 

[Wiibomb]

So uh, Wall Priest is pretty damn good, huh.

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I'm finding tricky o know when to commit to the divine spirit - inner fire combo.

 

[VoxPop]

I'm finding tricky o know when to commit to the divine spirit - inner fire combo.

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I usually save it for lethal unless its necessary to keep me in the game. Depending on the match up, I sometimes use inner fire early to get an advantage (and also due to people randomly teching Skulking Geist) and save the topsy turvy for lethal.

 

[Deleted member 38227]

Oh, you can't fall below Rank 15 for loses. What a relief...

EDIT: Holy shit, Rank 14!

 

[Wiibomb]

Oh, you can't fall below Rank 15 for loses. What a relief...

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there are rank floors you can't fall until the end of season when you fall 4 ranks no matter what, those floors are at 15, 10 and 5.

 

[Deleted member 38227]

there are rank floors you can't fall until the end of season when you fall 4 ranks no matter what, those floors are at 15, 10 and 5.

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Yup. I had forgotten about 'em.

Wall Priest SUCKS. lol

 

[Deleted member 38227]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YrxKIz02dE
New Omni/Stone. The State of the Game discussion was very interesting. It's weird to talk about a game needing achievements, but damn if they aren't on to something here (~34 minute mark).

I think that Wild packs should be sold at a steep discount.

 

[VoxPop]

11-2 in arena right now. Never got more than 9 wins and I've been playing since release haha. 2 Meteors, 2 Glyphs, Blastwave and Witch's Cauldron have been epic. xD

Going to hold off on the last game till tomorrow. Finally out of rank 10 hell as well. Didn't really care before but hoping to hit top 500 legend this month if time permits.

 

[SnugTeam6]

I wonder if we'll hear about the 2019 rotation today. Year of the Raven was announced around this time.

 

[Noppie]

I wonder if we'll hear about the 2019 rotation today. Year of the Raven was announced around this time.

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Year of the Raven was announced the 27th, not quite there yet.

 

[SnugTeam6]

Year of the Raven was announced the 27th, not quite there yet.

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Yeah but Year of the Mammoth was announced on the 16th. Could be any range of dates!

 

[Deleted member 38227]

I'm playing around with Study Rogue in casual and Academic Espionage netted me Frost Lich Jaina. lol

 

[Wiibomb]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YrxKIz02dE
New Omni/Stone. The State of the Game discussion was very interesting. It's weird to talk about a game needing achievements, but damn if they aren't on to something here (~34 minute mark).

I think that Wild packs should be sold at a steep discount.

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I think they still needed to add more to what they said there, the arcade idea is something I've been thinking or years they could do, something similar to what overwatch had, which is just an expanded tavern brawl mode..

Achievements would go a very long way to make the game more interesting, something like that the fortnite battle pass sould be amazing to see in HS, it can make a big difference.

I still think this game has so much potential the devs have never gotten to explore, it's a shame they just don't do anything more than pump out packs

 

[Deleted member 38227]

Wiibomb Yes, a Battle Pass would be incredible (well, depending on what it gives players). It seems they have been coasting for awhile, maybe since Witchwood?, and if they are serious about the the game, they need to change things up. And I think they are serious about it. The changes to ladder and the tourney system seem evidence of that, right?

With Artifact a dreadful failure, and Magic Arean ho-hum (for me), I want this game to have a sustainable future. It's the only game I think about incessantly and the only videogame I am truly addicted to.

The "pump out packs" model is the CCG model, though. It may take a serious rethink to explore the game's potential, as you say.

 

[Deleted member 38227]

And I may take Study Rogue to ladder; it's just too much fun.

I like beating the shit out of my opponent with his/her own cards.

 

[Cat Party]

I still think this game has so much potential the devs have never gotten to explore, it's a shame they just don't do anything more than pump out packs

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Oh absolutely.

 

[KillstealWolf]

Won with Overkill Warrior in the brawl against the priest.

Don't allow Linekeeper to stay on the board, 3 Overkills in one turn, the Shrine lets it attack again, 40 attack right to the face.

 

[Deleted member 38227]

Anyone wanna critique this deck?

### Study Rogue
# Class: Rogue
# Format: Standard
# Year of the Raven
#
# 2x (0) Preparation
# 1x (1) Argent Squire
# 2x (1) Fire Fly
# 2x (1) Pilfer
# 1x (2) Cold Blood
# 2x (2) Defias Ringleader
# 2x (2) Lab Recruiter
# 1x (2) Pick Pocket
# 2x (2) Toxicologist
# 2x (3) Augmented Elekk
# 2x (3) Blink Fox
# 1x (3) Edwin VanCleef
# 1x (3) Fan of Knives
# 2x (3) Hench-Clan Thug
# 2x (4) Academic Espionage
# 1x (5) Myra's Unstable Element
# 2x (5) Vilespine Slayer
# 1x (6) Mossy Horror
# 1x (8) Tess Greymane
#
AAECAYO6AgiMArICmwX1BcvsAuvwArf1Auf6AgvJAYYJgcIC68ICpu8CovcCqPcCx/gC4PoC9YADqJgDAA==


I'm thinking the Defiled could be replaced. And do I need two Toxicologists? Double Mossy? Add an Ironbeak Owl?

It is too conditional on the cards one gains by all the thievery.

 

[Cat Party]

^^^Normally you'd have one or two Gadgetzan Auctioneers in a deck like that and maybe 1 Sprint. Do you have the Auctioneers? I take it that you are running Pilfer because you don't have Hallucination (a strictly better card). Ringleader is definitely not necessary.

 

[Deleted member 38227]

^^^Normally you'd have one or two Gadgetzan Auctioneers in a deck like that and maybe 1 Sprint. Do you have the Auctioneers? I take it that you are running Pilfer because you don't have Hallucination (a strictly better card). Ringleader is definitely not necessary.

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I'll run those suggestions. 1/4 so far on ladder... Sprint seems a waste at 7 mana.

Yes, do not have Hallucination and as it is Journey, I am not going to craft it for a few months of play.

 

[Wiibomb]

Because of the nature of that deck you need the 4 mana 3/2 that draws 2 minions.

Also, take out the ringleaders, that's usually a terrible card. May be also take the coldblood and put backstab

 

[Deleted member 38227]

Will do. And right now it seems like a meme deck. Great when it works; absolute shite when it doesn't.

Although, I will say, I casual I was getting all great cards from AE and BF and Pilfer etc. Move to ladder and it's all bullshit. Thx, Hearthstone.

 

[The Mango Sentinel]

Will do. And right now it seems like a meme deck. Great when it works; absolute shite when it doesn't.

Although, I will say, I casual I was getting all great cards from AE and BF and Pilfer etc. Move to ladder and it's all bullshit. Thx, Hearthstone.

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That's how it works lol

But yeah in a deck like that, you need some serious serious card draw. And most tech cards seem unnecessary to me because of all the shit you get from the other class. There's usually something to get you out of a jam. Sprint is a great card with Prep. If you're using it at 7 Mana, you're probably already too far ahead or behind for it to matter much.

 

[VoxPop]

Anyone wanna critique this deck?

### Study Rogue
# Class: Rogue
# Format: Standard
# Year of the Raven
#
# 2x (0) Preparation
# 1x (1) Argent Squire
# 2x (1) Fire Fly
# 2x (1) Pilfer
# 1x (2) Cold Blood
# 2x (2) Defias Ringleader
# 2x (2) Lab Recruiter
# 1x (2) Pick Pocket
# 2x (2) Toxicologist
# 2x (3) Augmented Elekk
# 2x (3) Blink Fox
# 1x (3) Edwin VanCleef
# 1x (3) Fan of Knives
# 2x (3) Hench-Clan Thug
# 2x (4) Academic Espionage
# 1x (5) Myra's Unstable Element
# 2x (5) Vilespine Slayer
# 1x (6) Mossy Horror
# 1x (8) Tess Greymane
#
AAECAYO6AgiMArICmwX1BcvsAuvwArf1Auf6AgvJAYYJgcIC68ICpu8CovcCqPcCx/gC4PoC9YADqJgDAA==


I'm thinking the Defiled could be replaced. And do I need two Toxicologists? Double Mossy? Add an Ironbeak Owl?

It is too conditional on the cards one gains by all the thievery.

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You definitely need to run more card draw with this deck.

I play thief rogue all the time since I hate playing meta decks. But I mostly stick to casual with this deck. It can be good on ladder but it weighs entirely on how early you pull off the Espionage and what kinda cards you get from it. The deck is also lame af when pitted against another rogue.

It seems you are running this deck to be more viable on ladder looking at cards like Fire Fly and Argent Squire but here's mine for full memery

### Thief Rogue
# Class: Rogue
# Format: Standard
# Year of the Raven
#
# 2x (0) Backstab
# 2x (0) Preparation
# 1x (1) Deadly Poison
# 1x (1) Hallucination
# 1x (2) Bloodmage Thalnos
# 2x (2) Eviscerate
# 1x (2) Lab Recruiter
# 1x (2) Sap
# 2x (3) Augmented Elekk
# 1x (3) Blink Fox
# 2x (3) Fan of Knives
# 1x (3) Gluttonous Ooze
# 2x (4) Academic Espionage
# 1x (4) Elven Minstrel
# 1x (4) Fal'dorei Strider
# 1x (4) Spectral Cutlass
# 2x (5) Vilespine Slayer
# 1x (5) Zilliax
# 1x (6) Vanish
# 2x (7) Sprint
# 1x (8) Tess Greymane
# 1x (9) Valeera the Hollow
#
AAECAaIHDsQBywPNA+0F08UCm8gC3NECgNMC2+MC6/AC6vMCx/gC4PoCoIADCLQB9gSbBYgHhgmBwgKo9wL1gAMA
#
# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone

It struggles against heavy aggro decks unless you get a perfect opener but its perfectly viable against control decks.