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Help me parse Neir Automata's combat, because it makes no sense

DrArchon

DrArchon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,485
I'm about 7+ hours into Neir Automata and I'm having a hell of a time coming to grips with fighting enemies, which is a problem considering that's the meat of the gameplay. I'm constantly downing health kits, taking hits that I really shouldn't be taking, and none of the combat feels particularly satisfying.

Like, I don't know what determines when I can launch an enemy or not after countering with a small sword. Sometimes the counter attack will hit and launch the enemy up for an air combo, but lots of other times 2B is left hanging in the air flailing around because the enemy ignored it. Enemies seem to ignore a lot of attacks come to think of it. Against harder enemies I often find myself sitting back and pelting them with bullets because when I get close they super-armor through all of my attacks and take off half my life. But that's pretty much the opposite of fun.

I get that this isn't supposed to be Bayonetta or MGR. It's supposed to be a game that can be beaten by RPG fans, not just Platinum fans. But there really seems to be nothing to get a hold of here.

So please, is there anything I'm missing? Should I just grind levels to trivialize the combat?
 

Deleted member 19533

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Well, while not part of the combat, you should look at the various chips that heal you. There's ones that heal back some of the damage you deal, some that heal you over time if you haven't taken damage, and, my personal favorite, one that heals you considerably after every enemy you kill.

If you upgrade them properly, you should have a decent build where you can take quite a bit of damage but rarely need to heal.

There's also chips that greatly increase your life and others that increase your defense.

Again, I know it's not about combat, but it's something that would make your journey easier so that you're not constantly using heals.
 

Deleted member 15326

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Actually, witch time optimization helps alot, so you can think of it as Bayonetta style in that regard. Also, your weapon preferences may vary but fists are actually pretty viable and give you less downtime in attacking.

Most enemies also have a pretty big tell/eye flash before attacking, so you should be able to dodge if not go into witch time
 
LoNe_eXiLe

LoNe_eXiLe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
306
The chip system will let you upgrade yourself with auto heal, deadly heal, etc so eventually won't need the healing items quite as much.
 
MogKnight

MogKnight

Member
Oct 27, 2017
103
There's also no shame (and no penalty iirc) in playing the game on an easier difficulty level if you don't jive with the game's combat.
 

Deleted member 17092

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Oct 27, 2017
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Yeah this is why I don't like Nier. Why is the main mechanic of a game dodge spamming. It's stupid.
 

Deleted member 8468

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Oct 26, 2017
9,109
Just play it on easy, the combat never really clicked for me either. It's a testament to how great the game is as a whole that most folks didn't freak out that Platinum combat is a bit subpar.
 
Exentryk

Exentryk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,235
IIRC, you can't launch enemies if they haven't finished their full combo (some enemies do more than one hit). Some big enemies can't be launched either. Also note that your dodge counter doesn't always need to be that launcher; pressing different buttons after the dodge does different moves. Play around with the system as there is enough depth to be enjoyable.

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OP
DrArchon

DrArchon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,485
BlueBomberX said:
Well, while not part of the combat, you should look at the various chips that heal you. There's ones that heal back some of the damage you deal, some that heal you over time if you haven't taken damage, and, my personal favorite, one that heals you considerably after every enemy you kill.

If you upgrade them properly, you should have a decent build where you can take quite a bit of damage but rarely need to heal.

There's also chips that greatly increase your life and others that increase your defense.

Again, I know it's not about combat, but it's something that would make your journey easier so that you're not constantly using heals.
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I'll look into chips like that. I don't have a problem buying heals because they don't cost that much, but it's a pain in the ass to constantly go into the menu to apply them (I have an auto apply chip but I don't trust it. It's failed me too many times).

Labor said:
Actually, witch time optimization helps alot, so you can think of it as Bayonetta style in that regard. Also, your weapon preferences may vary but fists are actually pretty viable and give you less downtime in attacking.

Most enemies also have a pretty big tell/eye flash before attacking, so you should be able to dodge if not go into witch time
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I immediately noticed the flashing eyes as a tell, but it's still tough because sometimes they get right in front of the camera and become hard to see, or I dodge one attack and land into another attack because I thought I could counter instead when I should have just mashed dodge like a maniac.

No fists yet though. Except for my bare hands I guess, but I'm not going to use those over my leveled up swords.
 
blueredandgold

blueredandgold

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,629
At its release, the demo on PS4 completely turned me off because I had the difficulty set low, and the notifications that bombarded me about in-game mechanics that become automatic washed over me.

Not until November/December did I try going back to it and now I'm having a grand old time with it. I was just like you.

I was asking the exact same questions as you in fact, but I have trouble keeping track of the Nier: Automata threads around here I don't know where they are. You will get a lot of good advice, like I did.

You still have to work out your own rhythm. A combo I abuse (because it's easy) is to jump, then immediately hit the button for a strong attack. Works well on larger foes.

Recovery items are activated via two button presses, down on the D-pad to open the quick menu, and then another button to use the small/medium/large health item.

Weapon management is not the game's strong suit. So-called 'heavy' weapons like axes or clubs can be assigned to the light attack button, and your swords/daggers/etc that you'd associate with light or quick attacks can then be made into 'heavy' attack combos.

My favourite weapon was just randomly found in a treasure chest in the desert.

And I didn't know this for a long time, but the original location of the game's first big boss fight (outside the factory) is where you'll one of your starting weapons.
 
katagai

katagai

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
192
I remember having some issues during the beginning when I was still learning the controls, but it sunk in after a while. Like others have mentioned, you want to press the dodge button right when you think you're about to be hit. The window is big enough that even if you're slow to press the button, you'll usually still make it out unscathed. Even when surrounded, you should be able to chain several perfect dodges in a row with little to no effort.
 
ADS

ADS

Member
Oct 27, 2017
872
Dodge more. Also, perfect dodge and take advantage of the counter attack opportunity it gives you. The "slow time on perfect dodge" chip is also cheap and really good.
 
Maffis

Maffis

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,314
Nier has the most forgiving dodge mechanic in any fighting game I've played. Be quick on that dodge button.
 
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DrArchon

DrArchon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,485
Seems like I just need to spam dodge more and focus on what chips I have equipped. I hadn't looked into the plug-ins that much to be honest, just the auto-heal one.

Lots of good tips here. If worse comes to worse, I'll just drop it to easy. If I want pure Platinum action, I'll be able to wait for the Bayo 2 rerelease.
 

Deleted member 15326

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DrArchon said:
I'll look into chips like that. I don't have a problem buying heals because they don't cost that much, but it's a pain in the ass to constantly go into the menu to apply them (I have an auto apply chip but I don't trust it. It's failed me too many times).


I immediately noticed the flashing eyes as a tell, but it's still tough because sometimes they get right in front of the camera and become hard to see, or I dodge one attack and land into another attack because I thought I could counter instead when I should have just mashed dodge like a maniac.

No fists yet though. Except for my bare hands I guess, but I'm not going to use those over my leveled up swords.
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Spamming dodge if you're in a fight with multiple enemies is usually pretty safe, yeah lol.

As far as using healing items, there's a quick menu you can access during battle that can speed that process up
 
Zukkoyaki

Zukkoyaki

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,282
Literally just mash the dodge button. It's dumb but it works.

One of the main reasons I wasn't really feeling the game because it essentially amounted to square, square, triangle and mashing R2.
 
Exentryk

Exentryk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,235
DrArchon said:
Seems like I just need to spam dodge more and focus on what chips I have equipped. I hadn't looked into the plug-ins that much to be honest, just the auto-heal one.

Lots of good tips here. If worse comes to worse, I'll just drop it to easy. If I want pure Platinum action, I'll be able to wait for the Bayo 2 rerelease.
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While you're learning, spamming dodge is fine. You won't need to spam once you get good at the combat.

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Skyball Paint

Skyball Paint

Member
Nov 12, 2017
1,667
You can counter with your heavy attack and your pod as well. The pod counter is pretty safe because it fires a large AOE blast that allows you to counter-hit from range and knock back crowds of enemies.
 
MrDoctor

MrDoctor

Member
Oct 26, 2017
375
USA
use pod as a lock-on > find weapon you like > upgrade weapons > switch to stronger weapon > press attack buttons when it's safe

alternative: homing missle pod
 
Hero of Winds

Hero of Winds

Member
Oct 28, 2017
882
I had trouble with the combat at first too, mostly due to having little experience with Platinum games (only played MGR, but I wasn't much good at that either) but now that I have Auto Heal, Offensive Heal, Deadly Heal, and Overclock equipped the combat is almost completely trivial lmao. I almost want to bump up the difficulty to hard at this point to compensate
 
DriftingSpirit

DriftingSpirit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,904
As others have said, rely on the dodge mechanic to avoid attacks, maneuver around for spacing, and the timing dodge to pop enemies up into the air.
 
Ahasverus

Ahasverus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,599
Colombia
Eh, play it in super easy with automatic chip and boom. Best game ever.

They should have just copied Bayonetta's combat, whatever they came up with it's not all there.

It's not bad though, it's a bit like MGRising.
 
Dinobot

Dinobot

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,126
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Make avid of dodge right before getting hit. Your character should glow or blink when you do it.

Make sure your index finger is always hitting the right bumper to be spamming bullets (it helps a lot). Use the swords only.

Fuck the rest of the weapons. Sword has great speed. I'd say 70% light attacks and 30% heavy.

Use plug-ins that regenerate health or give health based on damage you do. The rest should be defensive ones and a couple of attack ones when you begin to get more inventory space.
 
Xtortion

Xtortion

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,645
United States
It's not up to Platinum's standard imo. Dodge is super, super lenient and the enemies are none too interesting. I mostly button mashed my way through it.
 

Deleted member 11517

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DrArchon said:
I'm about 7+ hours into Neir Automata and I'm having a hell of a time coming to grips with fighting enemies, which is a problem considering that's the meat of the gameplay. I'm constantly downing health kits, taking hits that I really shouldn't be taking, and none of the combat feels particularly satisfying.

Like, I don't know what determines when I can launch an enemy or not after countering with a small sword. Sometimes the counter attack will hit and launch the enemy up for an air combo, but lots of other times 2B is left hanging in the air flailing around because the enemy ignored it. Enemies seem to ignore a lot of attacks come to think of it. Against harder enemies I often find myself sitting back and pelting them with bullets because when I get close they super-armor through all of my attacks and take off half my life. But that's pretty much the opposite of fun.

I get that this isn't supposed to be Bayonetta or MGR. It's supposed to be a game that can be beaten by RPG fans, not just Platinum fans. But there really seems to be nothing to get a hold of here.

So please, is there anything I'm missing? Should I just grind levels to trivialize the combat?
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I really didn't have an issue with Automata's combat once, it's wonderfully straightforward and super effective.

2 things: even if you think it's tedious, always shoot with your pod if your engaging with enemies, always, use auto aim or whatever, but always shoot - it helps tremendously with combos and or simply finishing off enemies faster.

And don't try to be stylish, the combat is stylish, but that's secondary just try to kill off enemies as fast as possible.

Second: always use your pod, it's incredibly powerful and, yeah, use it.



And if you're already shooting all the time (you probably don't cause I didn't see it mentioned outside of "boss battles"?) then I really don't know either, I found the combat not only refreshingly easy, it's also a lot of fun.


And yes, I'm aware, continously firing with the pod seems tedious, but it didn't bother me, I immediately understood how helpful it is and well, I did much more tedious stuff with a controller than pressing a shoulder button for a couple of minutes sometimes.


Before you think of over leveling (which is easily possible), did you try playing on easy? That would be preferable compared to being completely overleveled imo.


PS: oh yeah, spam dodge whenever you can, it's also completely op, I forgot about that, it's been a while I played Automata.
 
texhnolyze

texhnolyze

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,166
Indonesia
Don't play Nier Automata for the combat, it's only there to serve you through the game.

When people praise Nier Automata, they will mention everything but the combat.
 

Deleted member 16657

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just dodge a lot while holding down your shoot button, then attack with the sword when you're in good positions to do so

I mean you can literally dodge anything just dodge whenever you're in trouble
 
AtomLung

AtomLung

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,642
I got to a part last night where I have to fight a big robot ball that shoots lightning, and I can't buy any supplies. And now I don't wanna turn the game back on
 
Exentryk

Exentryk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,235
Bruceleeroy said:
Huh I must be in the minority. I thought it had excellent combat. Certainly better than something like the Witcher
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You're not. NieR's combat is up there as one of the best of 2017. The enemies just don't make you use the system to its full potential, but the depth is there.

texhnolyze said:
Uhh yes? It's simply a repeateable combo + dodge spam fest.

Yes, it looks cool but mechanically it's pretty sparse.
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The combo options are plenty. It's just your lack of creativity that you're using the same repeatable combo. Game is easy to play, but hard to master.
 
JCal

JCal

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,349
Los Alfheim
If you're getting hit, then you're not dodging in time. The game gives you a lot on invincibility frames after a dodge. The enemies also glow before delivering a hit.

Spamming will work sometimes. But, if you really want to be in control, watch those enemies, then dodge, then counterattack. After a successful dodge, you can counter with "Square," "Triangle," or "R1." Each counter does something different and each has certain weaknesses. "Square" will launch enemies in the air, but as you've noticed, doesn't always work on enemies who are higher in rank or are in the middle of their combo.
 
Mechaplum

Mechaplum

Enlightened
Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,820
JP
Playing on hard will make you appreciate the combat a bit. Also most of the difficulty is in managing and using the right chips.

It was certainly fun exploring each weapon though.
 
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