Help me understand here. Why on earth would a minority ever join the police?

Sheev · Oct 6, 2019

A quick note: I'm British but this thread is mainly aimed towards the American police force (but can stand true for the police of any nation. Our own police have plenty of issues relating to racism too.)

I'm absolutely confused as to why any minority in their right mind would join an institutionally racist police force, known for their prejudices towards people of colour, and often the LGBT community. It seems like every other day there's a new story about an American cop executing a black person in cold blood, and I'm curious exactly how black members of the police force rationalize being complicit in the oppression and murder of countless African Americans and other minorites. If people have any opinions on the matter or ideas, I'd love to hear them. I know many of them might be scared to speak up for fear of retaliation, but why would they join an organisation that hates them in the first place?

If the thread comes off as emotionally charged, I'm sorry. I'm just sick of people trying to defend the police force like they aren't some corrupt cult without any standards to be held to. The police protect the interests of the state and themselves, not the people. I don't know how that can change in today's society, unfortunately.

ACAB.

Deleted member 15428 · Oct 6, 2019

https://juniperpublishers.com/jfsci/pdf/JFSCI.MS.ID.555679.pdf

Quzar · Oct 6, 2019

Malleability of whiteness. Also, for many its just a job and they dont reconsider a single thing they do.

signal · Oct 6, 2019

Maybe some feel like it's a way to have some impact locally.

Not every police - citizen interaction is a shooting.

Bonafide · Oct 6, 2019

some believe they can change the system from the inside and do some good (whether that's naive or not depends on a couple of factors)
some are full supporters of the system and have no qualms suppressing others
some just want a check and dont really care about anything they're doing, the power is a plus

Deleted member 19070 · Oct 6, 2019

Because not all cops are bad. I imagine they want to try and help their local communities.

Deleted member 7130 · Oct 6, 2019

"One of the good ones" + "Just following orders/It's just a job"

ZackieChan · Oct 6, 2019

Bonafide said:
some believe they can change the system from the inside and do some good (whether that's naive or not)
some are full supporters of the system and have no qualms suppressing others
some just want a check and dont really care about anything they're doing, the power is a plus

Some just want a job

Jonnax · Oct 6, 2019

Well some people see shitty policing in their local neighborhood and want to make a change.

As a minority on the UK. I've had mostly good interactions with the police though I've lived in London.

Though when I lived in a town of 30k people, I did feel singled out because I was a minority once.

subpar spatula · Oct 6, 2019

Depending on the place, the pay and benefits can be quite good. Plus you generally get a good pension.

VN1X · Oct 6, 2019

That's a yikes from me.

Can we please stop with the "ACAB"? Why is that even allowed on this board?!

nsilvias · Oct 6, 2019

sometimes its the only decent paying job you can get

Mjester · Oct 6, 2019

Because there's a difference between a police force and the Nazi party.

Sheev · Oct 6, 2019

sarumog said:
Because not all cops are bad. I imagine they want to try and help their local communities.

Yeah, I definitely get that some probably had genuinely good intentions when they joined up, perhaps. But standing idly by when murders are happening is just baffling to me. Maybe they're scared of the retaliation from speaking out against their fellow officers.

Deleted member 8593 · Oct 6, 2019

Mjester said:
Because there's a difference between a police force and the Nazi party.

Depending on the country that difference is becoming smaller and smaller every day.

Jokab · Oct 6, 2019

Sheev said:
The police protect the interests of the state and themselves, not the people. I don't know how that can change in today's society, unfortunately.

ACAB.

Well either you can throw up your hands in the air and proclaim that nothing can be done or you can try to do something about it. I'm not gonna blame anyone for not trying because its not easy but I'm sure not gonna blame anyone for trying either.

Bonafide · Oct 6, 2019

ZackieChan said:
Some just want a job

?

thats what i said.

however, "just wanting a job" only goes so far.
again, that depends on how much you give a shit on the damage the system you're supporting is affecting others.

VN1X said:
That's a yikes from me.

Can we please stop with the "ACAB"? Why is that even allowed on this board?!

not all of us want to bury our heads in the sand (or can) regarding the repeated systemic abuses of the police force.

it doesnt matter how many "good cops" you know or think you know. the system as a whole is rotten.

Van Bur3n · Oct 6, 2019

Some folk are just born with a pork tail.

Sheev · Oct 6, 2019

Jokab said:
Well either you can throw up your hands in the air and proclaim that nothing can be done or you can try to do something about it. I'm not gonna blame anyone for not trying because its not easy but I'm sure not gonna blame anyone for trying either.

I want to do something about it but I'm not sure what impact I can have. How would you suggest we fix it?

Kaloskatoa · Oct 6, 2019

Sheev said:
A quick note: I'm British but this thread is mainly aimed towards the American police force

then call the thread "why in the usa", not "why on earth". Legit came here because I thought to share my view as a person from a third world country.

Dont think ill add as much to the discussion so ill just be on read mode

Jokab · Oct 6, 2019

Bonafide said:
not all of us want to bury our heads in the sand (or can) regarding the repeated systemic abuses of the police force.

it doesnt matter how many "good cops" you know or think you know. the system as a whole is rotten.

It's in the wording. All cops are bastards is just factually not correct. Why not say "the police are bastards"? That's talking about the organization and not the individual members. And yes, I'm going to argue that semantics is important.

VN1X · Oct 6, 2019

Bonafide said:
not all of us want to bury our heads in the sand (or can) regarding the repeated systemic abuses of the police force.

it doesnt matter how many "good cops" you know or think you know. the system as a whole is rotten.

Oh my god.

Yes there's a problem with American Police but calling an entire group bad has some nasty similarities so a certain way of thinking no?

But yeah I hope none of you who sport this brilliant ACAB mentality never end up in a situation where you need the emergency services. Fucking hell.

Jokab · Oct 6, 2019

Sheev said:
I want to do something about it but I'm not sure what impact I can have. How would you suggest we fix it?

I have no idea, but that's not the point. The moment you say something is unfixable, it also becomes unfixable.

Sheev · Oct 6, 2019

Kaloskatoa said:
then call the thread "why in the usa", not "why on earth". Legit came here because I thought to share my view as a person from a third world country.

Its 'mainly aimed towards the American police' because that's what tends to be heard about the most, for better or for worse. It definitely still applies to other nations with police that oppress minorities too. I'd love to hear experiences from other nations around the world to understand this sort of thing better.

VN1X · Oct 6, 2019

Sheev said:
Its 'mainly aimed towards the American police' because that's what tends to be heard about the most, for better or for worse. It definitely still applies to other nations with police that oppress minorities too. I'd love to hear experiences from other nations around the world to understand this sort of thing better.

No you just want your preconceived notions and established way of thinking validated by others instead of actually taking a step back and looking at it from another perspective.

Deleted member 543 · Oct 6, 2019

Some people don't actually have a choice. That's what oppression is.

Being educated enough to acknowledge how fucked up the system is is a privilege we often forget about. Some people don't have the education or can't afford the critical distance. They're faced with having to feed their families and take one of the few options available to them, even if that option is incosistent with their beliefs.

Sheev · Oct 6, 2019

VN1X said:
No you just want your preconceived notions and established way of thinking validated by others instead of actually taking a step back and looking at it from another perspective.

What other perspective is there when it comes to the actions of the police? I want to hear what other people think.

VN1X · Oct 6, 2019

Sheev said:
What other perspective is there when it comes to the actions of the police? I want to hear what other people think.

Ah yeah you're right I'm sorry. That's a very compelling argument indeed. ACAB 4 lyfe!

SurrenderDorothy · Oct 6, 2019

'Black police showing out for the white cop.'

I'm British too btw, I say ACAB everywhere, though in varying degrees ofcourse.
I've been profiled for the colour of my skin before, police busted in my house without a warrant for some bullshit unrelated to my family, parents weren't even home. I was shook for days because I didn't know what to do about it.
Fuck the police.

Sheev · Oct 6, 2019

VN1X said:
Ah yeah you're right I'm sorry. That's a very compelling argument indeed. ACAB 4 lyfe!

And yet you don't seem to have an argument yourself on the matter? Do you think the actions of the police and how often they aren't held accountable for their actions are acceptable just because 'there are some good cops' out there?

VN1X · Oct 6, 2019

Sheev said:
And yet you don't seem to have an argument yourself on the matter? Do you think the actions of the police and how often they aren't held accountable for their actions are acceptable just because 'there are some good cops' out there?

Here in the Netherlands there's a high rate of crime in the Moroccan community, sure there are some good people out there but nah...

AMAB!

(I'm out btw, enjoy your echo chamber and regressive mentality!)

loquaciousJenny · Oct 6, 2019

Because not everybody thinks the exact same way nerd

Sheev · Oct 6, 2019

VN1X said:
Here in the Netherlands there's a high rate of crime in the Moroccan community, sure there are some good people out there but nah...

AMAB!

Comparing apples to oranges, but okay. The police are supposed to be an institution that people can trust in. It should be held to a high standard above that of the general community. These people are supposed to be the best of us, not the worst.

Nostremitus · Oct 6, 2019

The only way to fix the problem with the police force and the good ole boy system is for people to join and be the good cops they want to have in their communities.

Zutroy · Oct 6, 2019

Policing isn't as corrupt and full of scandal in most western countries compared to the US.

In the UK even most minorities have confidence in the police. LINK. Killings by the police are rare and they have active recruitment campaigns for minorities to try and represent them better. 30% of the force are now female and 7% BME. LINK

Sheev · Oct 6, 2019

Nostremitus said:
The only way to fix the problem with the police force and the good ole boy system is for people to join and be the good cops they want to have in their communities.

That's fair. The cops who enable and conduct this behaviour need to go too in order to have any noticeable impact in my opinion, but that seems a much more difficult task.

Nostremitus · Oct 6, 2019

Sheev said:
That's fair. The cops who enable and conduct this behaviour need to go too in order to have any noticeable impact in my opinion, but that seems a much more difficult task.

I agree, but without good people joining the force the bad ones would just be replaced by like-minded people. Also, the best way to combat prejudice is through understanding. Just having minority members on the force can reduce the prejudicial behavior of everyone around.

Bobson Dugnutt · Oct 6, 2019

There's no one size fits all for this, despite what many people on here seem to think

some want to make a difference from the inside (whether you think that's futile or not)
some yes, might have internalised racism and use this to have a power trip over others
some might have different lived experiences than the typical experience and fortunately escaped a lot of negativity surrounding police in general in their particular area
some do it for the job prospects
some might not just be up to their necks in leftist rhetoric all day and see things differently *shrug*

Izzard · Oct 6, 2019

Sheev said:
Comparing apples to oranges, but okay. The police are supposed to be an institution that people can trust in. It should be held to a high standard above that of the general community. These people are supposed to be the best of us, not the worst.

It's not really apples and oranges though is it, but okay.

As for the question, minorities face prejudice, bigots in all walks of life. In my job I've faced it. It doesn't matter where you work, some people tend to be the same. So joining the police is just another job.

And of course, just like the majority, minorities can have their fair share of bastards too btw.

Hugare · Oct 6, 2019

Bobson Dugnutt said:
There's no one size fits all for this, despite what many people on here seem to think

some want to make a difference from the inside (whether you think that's futile or not)
some yes, might have internalised racism and use this to have a power trip over others
some might have different lived experiences than the typical experience and fortunately escaped a lot of negativity surrounding police in general in their particular area
some do it for the job prospects
some might not just be up to their necks in leftist rhetoric all day and see things differently *shrug*

Yup, all of the above

OP seems to be having a hard time trying to see things from another person's perspective

Idde · Oct 6, 2019

Not from the US, but the Netherlands. In my part of Amsterdam there are a lot of muslims, and the police force (I think nation wide?) has been trying to make the police force representative of the general population. And also has been (trying) to deal with the internal racism like anti-muslim to make the force more welcoming to minorities. I don't know if it's working well, but there are quite a few muslim cops in this part of Amsterdam. Don't know why they want to join though, but quite a few do.

Sheev · Oct 6, 2019

Idde said:
Not from the US, but the Netherlands. In my part of Amsterdam there are a lot of muslims, and the police force (I think nation wide?) has been trying to make the police force representative of the general population. And also has been (trying) to deal with the internal racism like anti-muslim to make the force more welcoming to minorities. I don't know if it's working well, but there are quite a few muslim cops in this part of Amsterdam. Don't know why they want to join though, but quite a few do.

That's good, I can appreciate when police try to self-reflect on issues of internalised racism, and celebrate and embrace diversity. At least they're trying to do something. I couldn't see something like that happening in America, because they'd have to criticize themselves first.

Ploppee · Oct 6, 2019

I always felt like this scene explained it quite well

Doober · Oct 6, 2019

I imagine the allure of that kind of power attracts men of all races, for one.

Some may have come from police/military families and have a rosier picture of the job.

Some may have legit wanted to make a difference in a small way, even if just for the sake of diversity. The system isn't likely to change if it continues to be dominated by white men.

Some are conservatives that buy into the "back the blue/thin blue line" propaganda.

Deleted member 2809 · Oct 6, 2019

VN1X said:
Here in the Netherlands there's a high rate of crime in the Moroccan community, sure there are some good people out there but nah...

AMAB!

(I'm out btw, enjoy your echo chamber and regressive mentality!)

bye bitch

caliph95 · Oct 6, 2019

I guess its better than having an all non minority police force at least ideally the minority could help their community more

Sheev · Oct 6, 2019

Hugare said:
Yup, all of the above

OP seems to be having a hard time trying to see things from another person's perspective

The person I just quoted shared their perspective and helped me to understand what people thought in other countries and the steps police are taking to better themselves there. I was hoping others would do the same.

Bonafide · Oct 6, 2019

Jokab said:
It's in the wording. All cops are bastards is just factually not correct. Why not say "the police are bastards"? That's talking about the organization and not the individual members. And yes, I'm going to argue that semantics is important.

as much as people disagree, there is no line separating an organization vs. an individual in that organization. that type of rhetoric allows folks to be passive on the issue by dismissing it as isolated incidents here and there rather than face the (admittingly) very uncomfortable fact that the police at all levels are corrupt and have little to no checks on its power. especially when we're talking about an organization with massive power, influence, and privilege like the police. without pointing and footstomping that this is a systemic problem that the individuals in that organization support through compliance or by silence you get people muddying the waters saying shit like....

VN1X said:
Oh my god.

Yes there's a problem with American Police but calling an entire group bad has some nasty similarities so a certain way of thinking no?

But yeah I hope none of you who sport this brilliant ACAB mentality never end up in a situation where you need the emergency services. Fucking hell.

VN1X said:
Here in the Netherlands there's a high rate of crime in the Moroccan community, sure there are some good people out there but nah...

AMAB!

(I'm out btw, enjoy your echo chamber and regressive mentality!)

...this.

Idde · Oct 6, 2019

Sheev said:
That's good, I can appreciate when police try to self-reflect on issues of internalised racism, and celebrate and embrace diversity. At least they're trying to do something. I couldn't see something like that happening in America, because they'd have to criticize themselves first.

Of course, that's what you hear and read in the press. I have no idea how succesful it is and how welcoming the police culture is to minorities. There are also numerous articles about problems with police and minorities. And every time there is some higher up officer saying they're doing their best and there's policy in place. And there's a (pretty exhaustive) part of the police website dedicated to diversity. Currently 25 percent of new recruits is a minority, but a part of that appears to leave, because the internal culture seems hard to change. Which is not surprising.

So eeeh, I don't really know, a minority in the police force here would be a better judge. Which I'm not.

Heromanz · Oct 6, 2019

Money
Not every minority person goes through the same things.
Upbringing

Help me understand here. Why on earth would a minority ever join the police?

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