Help me understand the demand for a Sonic Adventure Remake. I don't get why people actually want this.

Mandos

Member
Nov 27, 2017
6,882
Those who didn’t like big were obviously not playing it with the right controller

This is what the Big levels were made for!
 

Raging Spaniard

Artist at EA Star Wars
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
1,957
Because people want to feel like they felt when SA 1 came out and they think this would do it
 

VDenter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,498
Beats me. The Adventure series was the point where the Sonic series went from great to terrible. The Adventure games were not a good transition to 3D for Sonic. Sega has yet to figure it out as of today. Remaking bad games is not going to help the series in the slightest.
 

BigTime_2018

Member
Dec 31, 2018
171
Sonic Adventure and Sonic Adventure 2 are weird. They’re both fun but have presentation and story flaws that prevent me from calling them good.

If SA and SA2 are remade, these issues could be addressed, and both games may reach their potential as a result. That’s why I want remakes of them.
 
Last edited:

Nanashrew

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,196
If anyone needs to know just how bad the Sonic Adventure 1 DX port is and how they keep making it worse with every new modern port, I fully recommend going through this blog and to see just how bad it can get (and it gets bad). There are even a number of bugs that still persist from the GameCube version. And despite how much the person has been able to fix through modding, there is still a lot that cannot be done mainly due to the engine and its use of draw distance.

 

Virtua King

Member
Dec 29, 2017
1,981
I'm not exactly clamoring for a remake since the original plays fine to me. If they return to the Adventure style, I'd rather get a new game, or something like what Proect Heroes is promoting.

 

Bing147

Member
Jun 13, 2018
45
What if they made a good new game instead? That way they don't have to deal with trying to salvage a fundamentally bad product.
Sure, that would be good. The argument could be made though that they have proved in recent years that they don't really have any worthwhile new ideas for where to take the series.

I've always agreed with the concept that it's better to remake a bad game than a good one. A good game is already good. If anything a remaster is fine for games that still hold up and are still fun. Make them look prettier and send them on their way. As much as I enjoyed the Shadow of the Colossus remake, I was fine with the PS3 version and I'd have been fine with it on the PS4 again. A full remake was cool, but I already loved that game so it changed very little.

Bad games aren't always fundamentally bad though. There have been plenty of games with good ideas that just didn't execute them well. Taking those good ideas and trying again could be far more worthwhile than fixing what isn't broken.
 

Woylie

Member
May 9, 2018
809
I mean I’d take a new game if it’s good.

Sonic Forces shows that was maybe not the best approach.

I’d personally be thrilled with SA/SA2 remakes, even just redoing the models and textures to bring them up to more modern standards a la Ocarina of Time 3D. I’d also be thrilled with a Sonic Adventure 3 that retained the varied gameplay, Chao Garden, and general vibe of the Adventure games, but I also don’t know if I have that much faith they can pull that off.

Basically it comes down to, even if it’s bad, I’d still be excited for an SA remake. It also seems like the easiest option to pull off since so much of the groundwork is there to work with.
 

BigTime_2018

Member
Dec 31, 2018
171
Sonic Adventure and Sonic Adventure 2 are weird. They’re both fun but have presentation and story flaws that prevent me from calling them good.

If SA and SA2 are remade, these issues could be addressed, and both games may reach their potential as a result. That’s why I want remakes of them.
I forgot to mention Big the Cat’s campaign. That’s a part of Sonic Adventure that’s not fun.
 

Asbsand

Member
Oct 30, 2017
6,142
Denmark
Ah yes, the classic “Sonic was never good” response. Wouldn’t be a Sonic thread without it.
I love Sonic but the only 3D game I really think holds up is Sonic Colors and Generations, because they have a level of consistency to them that works, without all that bullshit around it, like multiple characters with completely different gameplay and extremely glitchy mechanics. I think Adventure 2 has the best mechanics but the campaign sucks because of all the non Sonic/Shadow characters which drags the game down.
 

z1ggy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,543
Argentina
Man i bought the Dreamcast and fallen into the Sonic Adv hype and i was so dissapointed. Yes, the first level was cool...and thats it. Second game was even worse.
 

G_Shumi

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,170
Cleveland, OH
The original game has not aged well. What's worse is that every new port they released is worse than the first one on the Dreamcast. A remake can help bring the game back to today's standards, like the Crash and Spyro remakes have, while fixing and/or removing what went wrong. It's not just that Sonic Adventure (and moreso the DX ports) needs a graphical overhaul; it's begging for a remake to smooth out the edges. The DX ports aren't even in widescreen for God's sake! There is no definitive way of playing Sonic Adventure on consoles.

Plus, with Sonic Forces, Sega/Sonic Team have proven that they don't know where else to take the series. No one wants another game like Sonic Forces. It's not just that the game was really short and boring (although that didn't help); it's that we're tired of the boost formula and want something else. Since it seems that the developers seem tired of it too and don't know where else to go, why not go back and remake some of their most popular games for a new generation? They showed little bits of what the Dreamcast games would look like with the 2 levels from Sonic Generations. Why not see where else that can take them?
 
Last edited:

Symphony

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,147
Because Adventure was a good game, a very respectable attempt at bringing Sonic into 3D that still maintained momentum based physics (which everything since hasn't). But time hasn't been kind on it at all, and we're at the 20th anniversary of its release with the only methods of play being the DC original and a number of ports ranging from slightly worse to outright awful. This revisionist meme of "every Sonic game ever was shit and nobody even liked them back on release" is honestly getting tiring, SA1 was well liked back on launch and seen as a competitor to the likes of Banjo, Crash and Spyro (but not Mario 64).

As for the "Sonic Team could be making a great new title instead, look at this fan engine that nails everything" idea... take a look at Sonic Team's output over the years. In particular look at Forces and Lost World. They're clueless, they have absolutely no idea what they're doing with new Sonic games, they take everything that works and they throw it in the trash for no good reason. The only time their output works is when they have a solid template to build upon (Colors, Generations), which is what a remake would provide them. Ideally Sega would pass the franchise to another developer at this point, but clearly Sonic Team seem to have total immunity.

And finally, Chao Fucking Garden. We're never, ever getting them back outside of a straight remake of SA1 or SA2 at this point. Us Chao fans have waited almost 20 years for another game featuring them.
 

Gold Arsene

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,976
Beats me. The Adventure series was the point where the Sonic series went from great to terrible. The Adventure games were not a good transition to 3D for Sonic. Sega has yet to figure it out as of today. Remaking bad games is not going to help the series in the slightest.
Good thing they wouldn't be remaking a bad game then.
 

ckareset

Member
Feb 2, 2018
4,206
I love Sonic but the only 3D game I really think holds up is Sonic Colors and Generations, because they have a level of consistency to them that works, without all that bullshit around it, like multiple characters with completely different gameplay and extremely glitchy mechanics. I think Adventure 2 has the best mechanics but the campaign sucks because of all the non Sonic/Shadow characters which drags the game down.
I think the idea is that the Sonic Adventure 1/2 Speed Stages, Daytime Unleashed, or Generations Modern could make a good game if they were the entire focus of a game. Sega would just have to make enough levels.

Literally two different styles of Sonic that are just fine. Maybe not "The perfect representation of Sonic in 3D" but they dont have to be. The worst mario games are the ones that translate the 2D games the best: 3D Land and 3D World.

Now I dont think they can make enough boost stages to carry an entire game in 3d. But if you see how fast they use to churn out games I find it hard to believe they couldn't just buckle down and create enough slower adventure stages.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,458
Because people in their twenties-thirties are reaching the prime age for having played adventure as a child and getting to midlife crisis point where their childhood was the best and need that nostalgia shot.
 

Sixfortyfive

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,064
I don't get the "only Sonic's stages are good" crowd.

If anything redeems SA1, it's Gamma. And it's not his fault that SA2 made the shooting stages worse.
 

Syril

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,476
Sonic Adventure feels like it aged more badly because the DX versions that they keep releasing are all worse than original game.
 

ckareset

Member
Feb 2, 2018
4,206
I don't get the "only Sonic's stages are good" crowd.

If anything redeems SA1, it's Gamma. And it's not his fault that SA2 made the shooting stages worse.
He easily has the best story in all the games, but I think at this point it's best to just cut bait with all alternate styles that arent Sonic. I liked the treasure hunting stages personally. But it's not like it's a necessity.
 

roguesquirrel

The Fallen
Oct 29, 2017
2,584
A lot of gamer takes make sense when you realize it revolves around games people played when they were 10
 

VDenter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,498
Sonic team lacking ideas isn't even the main issue, it's working constantly on Sonic in extremely tight deadlines, with no coherent vision to make it all work. Burnout is going to happen to the devs and it's honestly no wonder the series is where it is at this point. Sonic has been pulled in every single direction imaginable and if they can't even make a single good 3D game, what makes anyone think that they would be capable of remaking SA1 & SA2 and make them good?

It's straight up fantasy.
 

muteKi

Member
Oct 22, 2018
9,407
a sunken pirate ship
I can't speak to the other people in the thread but the things I like about SA1 are:

1. The level design was more ambitious than in later games, and was built more around building plausible-feeling spaces than it was about creating long, linear obstacle-courses. This also meant that the level design encouraged a lot of experimentation with space and thinking, well, somewhat laterally about how the worlds were laid out.

This connects to the fact that a lot of the ideas being implemented in 3D took a lot of inspiration from the various gimmicks found in the older games. Knuckles's treasure hunting comes out of ideas seen in the 8-bit Sonic 1 and 2 and Sonic CD's badnik machine tasks. The pinball was a big thing in Sonic 2 and there was a whole spinoff game built around it. The snowboarding is a much less automated alternative to the flashy Sonic 3 Ice Cap sequence.

At the time it was a very well-celebrated game, and that's because it was a solid implementation of ideas from an established series, and at the very least no worse than most of the other 3D mascot platformers of the era. I'd certainly put if above something like Gex 2 (haven't played 3) or Donkey Kong 64. For that matter, the level design is certainly a lot fuller than the very explicit tunnel design that Crash Bandicoot was built around (and which, frustratingly, the 3D Sonic titles quickly regressed to).

2. The actual narrative arcs for the characters (except Sonic, because Sonic is basically a speedy blue golem) were all well-considered and built good ideas around the struggles that had been established for them. Is Tails doomed to stay in Sonic's shadow as a sidekick? Will Amy win Sonic's love -- hell, does she even need to? What is Knuckles' purpose in life; what is he protecting? Does a robot tasked with ending Eggman's dominion have to destroy himself? And of course the most important question of all: FROGGY? WHERE ARE YOU????

3. I know this is a controversial opinion but the ways in which each level's space was designed around more than one character was a great boon to how they actually work for every character. One of the biggest issues I have with Sonic Adventure 2 is that levels are large but have no sense of space and tend to not stand out from one another except for the aspect of graphical theme.

4. Many of the flaws of the game are straightforward and obvious, and at least in theory easy to fix given time and attention to do so. There are a number of places where the collision detection isn't as good as it could be, the supposedly-updated ports have significant flaws in texturing and shading, Windy Valley was a pretty obvious rush-job that lacked the ambition of the prototype designs, the voice acting wasn't done in a way that was conducive to natural-sounding English dialogue, and the controls are dated. None of these are insurmountable issues for a remake to overcome.

5. Yeah, the chao garden. Bring that back.
 

VDenter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,498
Good thing they wouldn't be remaking a bad game then.
Made me regret buying the dreamcast. That's how bad i think these games are and it made me completely lose interest in the series that i used to love. SA1 is right alongside DK64 as one of the most disappointing games i have ever played. Thankfully a few of the Advance games were decent and Mania was great but the Adventure games are the precise moment everything started to go downhill for this franchise. SA2 was even worse but i just sopped caring at that point, so it wasn't even disappointing just depressing.
 

RROCKMAN

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
4,087
I like how everyone is forgetting that sonic generations exists and effectively remade 3 levels to great results in that game.


It’s very obvious the impact that SA1 and SA2 would have if they were done with in Generations style.
 

Lindsay

Member
Nov 4, 2017
1,605
Cause Adventure 1's still fun ta play even today so why not want a more polished version? Same with FF7, a game I play every year. I never demanded a remake of that but if its good I'll play it. Same with Adventure 1.
 

The Adder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,798
Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 are highly unpolished good games. Remakes can turn them into polished great games.
 

SolVanderlyn

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,790
+Great cast
+Great soundtrack
+Mostly above average levels (Hopefully Big's story would be altered or made optional)
+An entire campaign for each character
+A cool ancient Mayan jungle to explore
+Sonic lore/story that is actually good
+Tails gameplay without a battleplane

And most importantly

+A chance to fix all the buggy/weird stuff with the game, possibly add new characters and stages, and see a classic favorite realized with modern technology