Help me understand the demand for a Sonic Adventure Remake. I don't get why people actually want this.

Oct 27, 2017
520
Sonic team lacking ideas isn't even the main issue, it's working constantly on Sonic in extremely tight deadlines, with no coherent vision to make it all work. Burnout is going to happen to the devs and it's honestly no wonder the series is where it is at this point. Sonic has been pulled in every single direction imaginable and if they can't even make a single good 3D game, what makes anyone think that they would be capable of remaking SA1 & SA2 and make them good?

It's straight up fantasy.
Out of curiosity, have you played Generations? I agree the SA games are deeply flawed, but I think they got 3D Sonic right with Generations. Unleashed (for all its flaws) - Colors - Generations was a sort of silver age for Sonic. Then they tried to reinvent the wheel...
 

Gold Arsene

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,823
Made me regret buying the dreamcast. That's how bad i think these games are and it made me completely lose interest in the series that i used to love. SA1 is right alongside DK64 as one of the most disappointing games i have ever played. Thankfully a few of the Advance games were decent and Mania was great but the Adventure games are the precise moment everything started to go downhill for this franchise. SA2 was even worse but i just sopped caring at that point, so it wasn't even disappointing just depressing.
SA2 was the first Sonic title I ever owned and it remains one of my favorites to this day.

I didn't like SA1 as much but still found it enjoyable and watching some livestreams I saw there was a lot of potential in the series I never realized.

Both games have massive flaws not the least of which is that the game gets glitcher with every port. But I would never call them bad games. Sonic 06 is a bad game, Shadow the Hedgehog is a bad game, Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 are flawwed but I still fid them fun today and have so many things I'd love brought back.
 

Virtua King

Member
Dec 29, 2017
1,977
A lot of gamer takes make sense when you realize it revolves around games people played when they were 10
I was a teenager when Sonic Adventure 1 came out, and I like it even more now. All that "jank" and "struggling" over Big's stages comes off as overblown nonsense to me, and must primarily come from people that don't know WTF they're doing. I include my younger self when I say that as well, because I used to do dumb stuff like push the analog stick when the game clearly doesn't want you to, etc.
 

AppleKid

Member
Feb 21, 2018
1,099
I would only be interested if they made a mashup of SA 1 & 2. And by mashup, I mean a new story encompassing both games and only including Sonic & Shadow levels + Chao Garden
 

KDR_11k

Member
Nov 10, 2017
1,950
Let's be honest here, people are talking about a remake that fixes the numerous flaws of the original but has Sega demonstrated any ability to pull that off? After Sonic finally seemed to be back for good with Colors and Generations they followed up with Lost World and Forces so it doesn't look like they really learned any lessons.
 

Speedlynx

Member
Nov 22, 2017
580
I love Sonic but the only 3D game I really think holds up is Sonic Colors and Generations, because they have a level of consistency to them that works, without all that bullshit around it, like multiple characters with completely different gameplay and extremely glitchy mechanics. I think Adventure 2 has the best mechanics but the campaign sucks because of all the non Sonic/Shadow characters which drags the game down.
I’ve always agreed with this. When people speak of liking the Adventure games they’re usually talking about the running stages, which only make up a third of SA2 and a little more of SA.

Now if we could get an Adventure game full of polished running stages (not treasure hunting, fishing, mech, etc) then I’d welcome a new adventure game.

Oh and it would have to be done by a capable developer, aka not Sonic Team.
 

Seik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,801
Québec City
SA1&2 were legit despite their problems. Especially in the era they came out. Nowadays, sure, they haven't got old well like say SM64 but still, there's potential, given the right people and effort, I think.

Especially if you compare to everything that came after. Only Generation and Colors were up to snuff.
 

VDenter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,491
Out of curiosity, have you played Generations? I agree the SA games are deeply flawed, but I think they got 3D Sonic right with Generations. Unleashed (for all its flaws) - Colors - Generations was a sort of silver age for Sonic. Then they tried to reinvent the wheel...
Colors and Generations were the closest to being good. Think the boost formula is pretty shallow and the platforming sections, and speed sections are awkwardly seperated in the games level design. Plus the physics momentum based platforming from the classic 2D games is completely missing. "Classic Sonic" plays nothing like classic Sonic.
Some of the stages had completely the opposite effect on me that the devs intended. I can't believe they decided to pay homage to stages like Crisis City.

Generation and Colors are not really that bad. They are ok for one playthrough but it's not what i want from Sonic in 3D. This formula is really limited and it's hard to expand much and keep the franchise from stagnating if they keep using it. Also while just going through the main stages can be simple fun, the filler missions like collecting certain amounts of rings or beating certain amounts of enemies are terrible. Thankfully you could mostly skip those.
 
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Mass Effect

Member
Oct 31, 2017
5,418
It would be nice to play a 3D Sonic that isn’t based on BOOST!!1 for once.

Also, I’d like to experience the chao garden again.

Also also, a remake of Sonic Adventure 1 would be nice because it has aged terribly—far worse than 2. SA2 is still pretty playable, I don’t know why people suddenly like to shit on it so much.
 

muteKi

Member
Oct 22, 2018
9,345
a sunken pirate ship
I think the biggest accomplishment of Colors is that it did a good job of highlighting the ways in which you can have the boost formula and also find ways to restrict Sonic's boost power so that players aren't going faster than the level design can accommodate, which I found to be a huge issue when I was trying to figure out how to play Unleashed's day stages (since there are a LOT of cases where boosting makes the levels significantly easier). I don't love Colors (I think too much of the game is built around the 2D segments and those aren't as good as in the games built exclusively around being 2D -- and ironically, I think the boostier DS version of the game is better and more fun) but it was a necessary point of experimentation I think.
 

Giga Man

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,882
Let's be honest here, people are talking about a remake that fixes the numerous flaws of the original but has Sega demonstrated any ability to pull that off? After Sonic finally seemed to be back for good with Colors and Generations they followed up with Lost World and Forces so it doesn't look like they really learned any lessons.
That doesn't matter to me. What matters is if it actually happens. If Sega announce right now that a Sonic Adventure remake is in development, I'll be watching it like a hawk until release. If it doesn't meet expectations, that's too bad, but I'm not gonna let the thought of it failing to meet my expectations stop me from wanting it to happen at all.

---

As for the boost formula, I only liked it in the Sonic Rush games. It's not that fun for me in the 3D games. I much prefer how Sonic Adventure 1 & 2 control.
 

Shadoken

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,475
What if they made a good new game instead? That way they don't have to deal with trying to salvage a fundamentally bad product.
Its quite simple. Because its not a fundamentally bad product and had way more ambitious ideas than later installments did. As much as people like to make it sound like the Adventure games were bad in every way , that is simply not true. They had a lot of good in it along with things that have aged quite bad. Fix those issues and rework the game to full realize what the game was going for in the first place.

Sure you could make a new adventure style game , but you could also have made a new TPS RE instead of calling it RE2 Remake. the point is they are more or less new games. The SA1 remake people want is only going to share the same setting and the general gameplay idea on what it should be. The controls,level design..etc would need to be new.
 
Oct 27, 2017
520
Colors and Generations were the closest to being good. Think the boost formula is pretty shallow and the platforming sections, and speed sections are awkwardly seperated in the games level design. Plus the physics momentum based platforming from the classic 2D games is completely missing. "Classic Sonic" plays nothing like classic Sonic.
Some of the stages had completely the opposite effect on me that the devs intended. I can't believe they decided to pay homage to stages like Crisis City.

Generation and Colors are not really that bad. They are ok for one playthrough but it's not what i want from Sonic in 3D. This formula is really limited and it's hard to expand much and keep the franchise from stagnating if they keep using it. Also while just going through the main stages can be simple fun, the filler missions like collecting certain amounts of rings or beating certain amounts of enemies are terrible. Thankfully you could mostly skip those.
Oh yeah, the filler missions and Classic Sonic (and of course the Werehog) weren't as good as the 3D Sonic parts. But I really liked the boost formula, it felt very rooted in SEGA arcade game-design (it reminded me of NiGHTS) and I think they are rooms for improvements. Like, they could add multiple paths, Tails and Knuckles with their own takes on the tricks and the combos (without making them the de-facto character of a different game altogether as the two SA did) and they could take a look at Donkey Kong Jungle Beat - which is imho the most SEGA-ish game Nintendo ever made.

I don't trust the current SEGA to do that, though. The ship sailed after Generation and whatever happened to the team between that game and Lost World.
 

XDevil666

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,825
Because Sonic Adventure 1 at the time was the equivalent of Mario 64... it was bloody fantastic at the time!

And sadly they haven’t managed to create that moment ever since :(
 

GildedMango

Member
Feb 6, 2018
82
Because Sonic Adventure, and subsequently Sonic Adventure 2, are some of the most ambitious games ever made, maybe a bit too ambitious for its own good. Across these stories with gigantic scopes, we're treated to 6 characters each with their own play style and piece of the story that ties into their own personal character arc. Even down to the music, each character has their own musical genre for whatever stage they appear in.

In SA2, we go from cityscapes, to jungles, to deserts, and then to space in a globe-spanning epic about a revenge plan 50 years in the making. There's secret agents, treasure hunting, high speed chases, and infiltration mission into the worst weapon in human history. There's laughter, tears, sorrow, and above all else, a feeling of hope that permeates through the dark, because there's no way he'd let anything destroy the world that's as cool and as blue as he is! Because the gameplay is so varied, you're bound to find something that you like, and if not, you won't have to do it for too long before something new happens.

And if you want to take a break from it all, just relax and raise some chao! Teach them karate, or racing, or even how to draw. Heck, YOU can race with your friends in the mutliplayer options and kart race mode! There's something for everyone .

Also probably nostalgia. Honestly, I think people liked the Adventure series for what it represents. I think the Adventure series is much better in theory than it was in execution, but there's still something there. I think a potential remake could give it the polish it really needed.
 
Oct 25, 2017
88
It shouldn't be hard to grasp the concept that people want a remake with QoL updates on a well-remembered game that could really benefit from one.

I love the Adventure games, but they also haven't aged well in a lot of areas. The fact that the first game has this nasty habit of getting shit ports that add more problems that didn't exist in the version before doesn't help.

I would love to see a graphical update with some added mechanics or fixes that improve on at least some of those problems. Mostly because I love those games and still prefer them to even admittedly great games like Generations for a list of reasons not directly tied to nostalgia.
 

Tigerfog

Member
Oct 28, 2017
137
Montreal
Because Sonic Adventure 1's story and general vibe was just perfect IMO.
It's serious enough, not too wordy, not too dramatic and not too wacky. Just balanced enough.
Sonic was neither too serious (like 2006) or too expressive of how cool and unfazed he is (Sonic Heroes, Sonic Forces).
Tails seems get some actual character growth.
Amy had her own objectives that didn't involve Sonic.
I'll admit that the soundtrack and artwork of the game screams late-90's edgy, but I love it!
 

Nocturnowl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,298
I get the feeling that a SA remake would just leave its fans unsatisfied with the inevitable changes to physics, music, voice over, glitches etc
 

karnage10

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,210
Portugal
i'm probably int he minority but i'd really like a remake/remaster of both sonic adventures. Obviously the best would be a sequel that improves on the great ideas.
So what do i like about these games?
  • Each char as a different type of gameplay
  • Most stages are very different from each other
  • Most sonic stages have some really cool set pieces that make you feel fast
  • Chao Garden gives a lot of replayability (instead of the usual score/time attack leaderboard)
now obviously the game doesn't shine on its platforming but for me it is good enough that its variety is enough to keep me glued to the game for dozen of hours.
My gameplay loop is: choose a level -> get animals -> upgrade chaos -> choose another level -> uprgade chao -> do chao race.
Rinse and repeat. The reason I don't get bored is that sometimes i'm trying to find the 3 cristals with knuckles some other time i'm comanding eggman's death robot.
The story while extremely average had some real cool set pieces. From Chao forms to the space battle. I enjoyed the set pieces.
 

Dymaxion

Member
Sep 19, 2018
662
Sonic Adventure should be kept as is. I admire it for its ambition, but I don’t put it on a pedestal either. There are too many remakes as is. I’d rather not see them get to the point where they remake Shadow the Hedgehog.

The franchise isn’t trying to compete with Mario and the other platforming animal mascots anymore, so Sonic Team should just go nuts with the next 3D Sonic and not take the legacy of the previous games too seriously. They should change the genre if they want!
 
Feb 12, 2019
273
Sometimes people have nostalgia for things that haven't aged well. I mean, if we're talking about dubious 3D platformers from 1999, I still have plenty of fond memories of Donkey Kong 64, a game I fully acknowledge is an excessive mess at best and a a giant checklist of trivial bullshit at worst. Is there a dark, twisted part of me that would kind of want a remake? Yeah. They shouldn't do it, but in an absolute hypothetical I'd play that shit regardless of how much of that game's busted design they actually fixed.
 

Aadiboy

Member
Nov 4, 2017
1,511
Honestly, the next 3D Sonic should just copy the design of Mario Odyssey, substituting chaos emeralds shards for moons. Just design bigger levels to allow for running and boom, you have a good starting point for a new Sonic.
 

VinylCassette64

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
1,174
I'm not the biggest fan of Adventure, but I'd say from a pure 3D platformer standpoint it's still the best effort Sega/STeam has ever done, in spite of it's various flaws (of which there are quite a few). I wouldn't be too opposed to a remake I guess, but I'd probably be more interested in an original game that builds on its better properties than a faithful recreation.

The main problem seems to be that much like classic Sonic, however; you're not going to get a new Adventure Sonic project from Sega unless you build it yourself and hope Sega picks it up as a formal Sonic release (see mobile remasters/Mania). The current mold of STeam doesn't have the talent and --more to the point-- doesn't really care about returning to those games in any meaningful way. Speaking of which...

Sonic team lacking ideas isn't even the main issue, it's working constantly on Sonic in extremely tight deadlines, with no coherent vision to make it all work. Burnout is going to happen to the devs and it's honestly no wonder the series is where it is at this point. Sonic has been pulled in every single direction imaginable and if they can't even make a single good 3D game, what makes anyone think that they would be capable of remaking SA1 & SA2 and make them good?

It's straight up fantasy.
I'd argue Forces proves both of these statements false. STeam had four years to make that game, more time than any of their previous titles; and what did they come up with? "It's not Generations 2 (except it is and we made it worse)." If that isn't proof of a lack of ideas (or a lack of ideas being a big issue) then I don't know what is.

The franchise isn’t trying to compete with Mario and the other platforming animal mascots anymore, so Sonic Team should just go nuts with the next 3D Sonic and not take the legacy of the previous games too seriously. They should change the genre if they want!
STeam does this with virtually every (other) game and it's a core reason why this franchise has gone down the toilet for years.
 

RedSwirl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,551
People want a remake of Sonic Adventure? First I've heard.

Look, I played the shit out of SA1 and 2 back in the day on Dreamcast and GameCube. Been a Sonic fan since OG Sonic 2. Still own all the Archie comics. The Sonic Adventure games were unpolished messes. Yeah there were good bits in there, I just don't know if any of it could actually be used to make a legit 3D Sonic. Maybe I need to look back at these games since I haven't played either in probably a solid decade at least. My Dreamcast is still hooked up.

I remember SA1 being a really ambitious attempt to turn Sonic into a modern AAA franchise to maintain the IP's status in the gaming pantheon, but to be honest I only remember Sonic's own levels actually being pretty good. Everything else was an admirable but maybe misguided attempt at something that had already been done better in other big games like Mario 64 or a bunch of PS1 RPGs. The hype around SA1 at the time was basically next-gen hype -- it was at the bleeding edge of console graphics at the time and had a really energetic soundtrack. I remember SA2 feeling similar but a bit reigned-in, again with only Sonic's levels truly standing out, and the whole package being kind of a janky sign that the furry mascot era was coming to an end.

Everything SEGA has done with Sonic in 3D since has been an attempt to get that AAA spotlight back with epic storylines, and it just hasn't worked.

Crash and Spyro got remade because their original gameplay holds up well enough today that they could just redo the graphics and leave everything else alone. SA would be a much more expensive endeavor from a company that probably has a lot less public trust right now.

Remake the opening cinematic and I'm good.
Hell yeah.

2. The actual narrative arcs for the characters (except Sonic, because Sonic is basically a speedy blue golem) were all well-considered and built good ideas around the struggles that had been established for them. Is Tails doomed to stay in Sonic's shadow as a sidekick? Will Amy win Sonic's love -- hell, does she even need to? What is Knuckles' purpose in life; what is he protecting? Does a robot tasked with ending Eggman's dominion have to destroy himself? And of course the most important question of all: FROGGY? WHERE ARE YOU????
Ok this is one thing I will admit I still appreciate in SA1 -- the way it weaves together the concurrent storylines of six characters, often showing the same events from multiple perspectives, and arc revolves around each character's personal journey. A nice touch is that if you see the same cut scene as different characters, everyone's dialogue actually changes to fit the perspective and personality of whoever you're playing as. I haven't seen another game do that.
 

Sothen

Member
Dec 15, 2017
537
Sonic Adventure didn't age well but it was ambitious for its time. That alone makes it deserve a remake.

The only huge sour spot that needs an overhaul is Big's fishing levels. They should either be optional or he should get a new gameplay style entirely. Compulsory fishing in a platforming game to progress the main story is bad bad bad. Casinopolis is guilty of this too with pinball but it is just one level and you can brute-force it with time, but maybe that should be looked at too.
 

Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,891
This is gonna seem bold but I honestly believe that if you're a Sonic fan and you passionately demand for Sonic Team to devote time, budget and resources to a remake, you're doing a massive disservice to the franchise's ability to improve and grow.
I mean... sega did that themselves. Someone wanting Sonic adventure remake(s) isn't doing any more damage that sega and sonic team fucking up for the past forever. In fact I would argue their feelings are justified. Sonic had all the story, characterization and characters yanked out of it for some good long time because apparently it would fix things...it didn't.

Me personally I would much prefer a game style that combined that sa2 trick system and the boost into some like select a character devil may cry platformer. Where its less about getting through the level and more about getting through the level , in style. That said, if someone feels nostalgia for sa1 or 2, or maybe feels dissapointed by the current direction of the franchise and would like a remake of shit they do like. More power to em, sega isn't put out any products to make them feel hopeful for the future.

tl;dr Adventure fans are sour that Classic Sonic got a good thing while they get crap like Forces and Team Sonic Racing and feel they are owed something in return, and their own inherent nostalgia leads them to an SA Remake despite them calling out Mania on the same nostalgia card.

Or at least that's one potential take of many.
Or... they just like sonic adventure and want more sonic adventure and people are remaking things so why not? And maybe its less sour and more " Oh hey that's cool maybe we could also be a thing "

Maybe don't turn the simple desire of people into some weird culture war.

maybe don't be a dick
 

SmokedSalmon

Member
Apr 1, 2019
589
I replayed both games in 2012 and thought they were garbage. I played them again just about a month ago and really liked them despite their flaws. Spindashing the immediately jumping of a ramp in SA1&2 is one of the most fun things to do in any Sonic game ever.

Also, I imagin the idea behind a remake would be to fix the original’s flaws.

A lot of people on Era seem to think these games have no demand or appeal. I was a kid when these games were coming out and literally everyone I knew was playing them. I mean, just look at how well SA2 did on GameCube. There has to be people who want a remake of these titles.
 

inguef

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
11,975
Sonic Adventure hate is so overblown and just another meme. It was a great game and I look forward to the remake. If you're not interested - don't buy it?