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Son of Sparda

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,614
Hi everyone.
Over the past few days I with the help of other Persona fans have been gathering feedback on what we would like to see in future Persona titles.

First we did the "Help us gather feedback for future Persona games [READ OP]" and then after the discussion about having an adult cast and different setting got more heated, the "Persona 6: Would you like an adult cast?" thread was made to see how the majority of Persona fans on Era feel about it. (still can't believe over 1000 people participated in that thread).

Anyway long story short, this is the final result of our work for the past 10 days:
ilU9Knq.png

Split version for people that may want to only send certain sections that they agree with the most:

Now, I need you guys to help me and everyone who contributed to that feedback sheet, to make sure that this at least reaches Atlus' hands. It's really easy:

How to help:

1) Go to your twitter account.
2) Copy/paste the tweet from below.
3) Attach the above feedback sheet (picture) to it.
4) Hit the tweet button.
5) Done.

Tweet:
Direct feedback from #Persona fans on ResetEra to developers at Atlus & Sega. We can't wait to see what the future holds for #Persona series. @AtlusUSA @Atlus_jp @SEGA @SEGA_Europe @SEGA_OFFICIAL @p_kouhou

1) This is NOT bible truth/gospel.
Trust me, I know some Persona fans don't like a bunch of stuff said in that feedback sheet, I don't necessarily agree with all of it either. But I asked for Era's opinion and this is what the majority of Persona fans on Era came up with. I respect your opinion if you disagree with this feedback, I would just ask you to please respect the opinion of people who gave their feedback that resulted into this sheet.

2) This won't ruin Persona.
The most surprising thing that I never thought I would have to worry about was people thinking that Atlus might actually look at this list and make Persona 6 exactly like that. No developer takes feedback from fans and makes their next games exactly based on that.

To quote my favorite developer Hideaki Itsuno on this subject:
I like to listen to the fan feedback but not necessarily do exactly what they've asked. Instead I think "Well that's what they like and this is why they want that, but how can I even go above and beyond that with my own idea that will hopefully satisfy those fan desires?"

So we are just telling Atlus what we want. What they do with this feedback is completely up to them. And that's assuming that this reaches Atlus' hands or they even care about it, which brings me to my last point.

3) "Atlus doesn't care about your little feedback, so why bother?"
Well, this is a risk I'm willing to take. I mean what's the worst thing that could happen? This sheet not reaching to Atlus or them not even caring about it? So what if that happens? At least we can say we tried.

If that was to happen, for me I'd just wasted a few hours of my life (which is much better than me not liking P6 and regretting why I didn't try to voice my opinion). And for you guys? It was just a single tweet.

Anyway, this post has already become much bigger than I expected.

Regardless of whether you send the tweet or not, I thank you for reading the OP.
Cheers!

Edit: Updated the feedback pics with the amazing work from chrominance
 
Last edited:
Nov 1, 2017
2,904
Could you create a feedback sheet that doesn't look like the one you showed? The layout sucks. I'm all for promoting suggestions but could you make one that actually looks, you know, professional?
 

purseowner

From the mirror universe
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,444
UK
Done. I don't have expanded characters though, so had to shorten the tweet a bit.
 
OP
OP
Son of Sparda

Son of Sparda

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,614
Could you create a feedback sheet that doesn't look like the one you showed? The layout sucks. I'm all for promoting suggestions but could you make one that actually looks, you know, professional?
Sorry, I'm not good with Photoshop so that's the best I can do.

If anyone wants to change it, I can send the .psd file to them tho.
 

Akumatica

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,746
Not trying to derail but there's a few words misspelled-
-foncutions
-respectove
-rouglike
-muture

edit- all corrected. Good luck OP!
 
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OP
OP
Son of Sparda

Son of Sparda

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,614
If no one else wants to take it, pm me and I'll take a look tonight.
Will do.
Just as an FYI, OP, the word "rogue" is and will always be spelled as "rogue". "rouge" is a totally different thing.
Not trying to derail but there's a few words misspelled-
-foncutions
-respectove
-rouglike
-muture
English is not my first language so I appreciate this.

Will fix them in a sec.
 

Sesha

â–˛ Legend â–˛
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,825
Could you create a feedback sheet that doesn't look like the one you showed? The layout sucks. I'm all for promoting suggestions but could you make one that actually looks, you know, professional?

Some feedback on your feedback on the feedback sheet. Saying the layout sucks is unhelpful. Offer practical advice instead. And what is making something look "professional" supposed to mean to someone who's not a professional?

I know your post probably isn't ill-intentioned, but come on.
 

Stilton Disco

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
581
UK
Done.

Not sure I agree with all of it 100% (the remarks about 'pervert party members' and not allowing as many female S-links to be romanced smacks of regressive modern Puritanism) but I'm very much broadly in favour of these changes.
 

RPGamer

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,435
Done.

Not sure I agree with all of it 100% (the remarks about 'pervert party members' and not allowing as many female S-links to be romanced smacks of regressive modern Puritanism) but I'm very much broadly in favour of these changes.

There are some good points and others that i don't support, i will just wait what Atlus comes up with themselves.
 
OP
OP
Son of Sparda

Son of Sparda

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,614
Done.

Not sure I agree with all of it 100% (the remarks about 'pervert party members' and not allowing as many female S-links to be romanced smacks of regressive modern Puritanism) but I'm very much broadly in favour of these changes.
Thank you.

In regards to female S-links, it is mostly refereeing to P5 lacking in female S-links such as the old lady from P4 or the little girl from P3.
 

chrominance

Sky Van Gogh
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,634
Son of Sparda gave these the once-over and approved, so here's what I came up with.

There was a ton of text and no matter how you slice it that'll make for a large image. So I have two versions. The first is a combined image with all the feedback--easy to share and pass around, requires a bit of scrolling to read it all.


I also made split versions: each section also has an individual image. This makes it easier to share just a portion of the feedback (if you only agree with the combat section, for example), and you can also attach all three to a Twitter or Instagram post.

 
OP
OP
Son of Sparda

Son of Sparda

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,614
Son of Sparda gave these the once-over and approved, so here's what I came up with.

There was a ton of text and no matter how you slice it that'll make for a large image. So I have two versions. The first is a combined image with all the feedback--easy to share and pass around, requires a bit of scrolling to read it all.



I also made split versions: each section also has an individual image. This makes it easier to share just a portion of the feedback (if you only agree with the combat section, for example), and you can also attach all three to a Twitter or Instagram post.
Absolutely amazing work, man.

Added all of them to OP.
 
OP
OP
Son of Sparda

Son of Sparda

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,614
where can I submit my counter protest?
I'm afraid we are past that point, since this is the final version of feedback.

I don't mind honorifics myself (I love their inclusion in Yakuza subs) but I do find them pointless in a dub. Like, hearing Yusuke-kun doesn't really tell anything to people that aren't familiar with Japanese language and culture so why even keep that in a dub?
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,711
I don't mind honorifics myself (I love their inclusion in Yakuza subs) but I do find them pointless in a dub. Like, hearing Yusuke-kun doesn't really tell anything to people that aren't familiar with Japanese language and culture so why even keep that in a dub?
the point of persona is really an introduction to japanese culture. that's why almost all of the demons descend from japanese mythology, and the main character is almost always a foreign exchange student new to japan. what they do beyond that depends on the game, but this has been the basic premise for every persona game since 3. Until that changes, the honorifics should stay, imo.
 
OP
OP
Son of Sparda

Son of Sparda

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,614
Like I said, I don't mind the honorifics, I just simply don't see what they add to the dub since people are already talking in another language and those honorifics don't mean anything in English/European countries.

I also disagree with Persona being an introduction to Japanese culture. Sure, they have a lot of cultural stuff in them but I think first and foremost, Persona's theme and goal is to be about self discovery. Everything else is second to that.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,711
OK, i'll agree with your claim the self-discovery is main point, but that doesn't mean we can just ignore everything else either.

Is there not a duty on the Localization to retain and preserve the meaning of the game they are localizing? Unlike most JRPGs, Persona is heavily reliant on culture and japanese society. A localization needs to take that into account. Saying you are against honorifics is like saying you don't want people to bow to eachother in the english versions. Would you be against removing bowing too?

I think you get where i'm going with this.
 

cj_iwakura

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,195
Coral Springs, FL
the point of persona is really an introduction to japanese culture. that's why almost all of the demons descend from japanese mythology, and the main character is almost always a foreign exchange student new to japan. what they do beyond that depends on the game, but this has been the basic premise for every persona game since 3. Until that changes, the honorifics should stay, imo.

They're lazily implemented and inconsistent. They don't translate ALL honorifics, only key ones. Post-Atlus Yakuza does the same thing. You can put in -chan and -kun but not -aniki or -kyoudai? Do it all or not at all.

IMO, they need to go.

They don't even do it in all their games(thank god). Soul Hackers and Raidou had no honorifics and were just fine. A good localization can come up with equivalents, and should.
 

lusca_bueno

Member
Nov 23, 2017
1,472
Never use Twitter but done. A lot of things in this compilation would be game changers in the future, definitely supporting.
 

t26

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
4,559
On twitter but not going to do this. Agree with some on the list but disagree with many. Also disagree with making a list this long.
 
OP
OP
Son of Sparda

Son of Sparda

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,614
OK, i'll agree with your claim the self-discovery is main point, but that doesn't mean we can just ignore everything else either.

Is there not a duty on the Localization to retain and preserve the meaning of the game they are localizing? Unlike most JRPGs, Persona is heavily reliant on culture and japanese society. A localization needs to take that into account. Saying you are against honorifics is like saying you don't want people to bow to each other in the english versions. Would you be against removing bowing too?

I think you get where i'm going with this.
I don't think you can compare honorifics to bowing. Yes, honorifics are part of Japanese culture, but that's by being part of their language. kun, chan, san etc aren't specific names that need to be kept in a localization. They are there to convey the tone of conversations and a good localization should be able to do that in other languages without using the specific words that don't mean anything in said languages.

Right now they simply keep the honorifics that they can't find an equivalent for in English/European languages. That's why you don't see them keeping the san in there that often, cause they have an easy equivalent for that, so the dub says "Mr. Kamoshida" instead of "Kamoshida-san"
Never use Twitter but done. A lot of things in this compilation would be game changers in the future, definitely supporting.
and done! (as for the honorifics, I like them too)
Thank you.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,711
Yeah. I wish you luck OP. I agree with most of whats there but not at the expense of what i dont want.

Good luck
 

Hecht

Blue light comes around
Administrator
Oct 24, 2017
9,734
Didn't the RNG inheritance thing go away when P4G came out? I thought P5 let you select the skills too? Or am I misremembering
 
OP
OP
Son of Sparda

Son of Sparda

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,614
It's a bit of both. Some skills get inherited (randomly) and some skills you can choose to inherit.
 

Gradon

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,470
UK
The honorifics really bothered me in 4 because the characters only get closer and closer but they never drop the honorifics to acknowledge this closeness. Plus don't they add them to first names instead of second names?

I've retweeted the social links one as I feel very strongly about same sex romance.
 

Kyuur

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,535
Canada
Hardly seems like "direct" feedback, more like "cherry-picked". It doesn't acknowledge anyone on the forum who would argue against any of these points in the way a chart or simple percentage would on each subject matter. A bunch of these feel more like arm-chair game designer proposals than valid critiques.

It looks nice though.
 

Dreamboum

Member
Oct 28, 2017
22,864
Hardly seems like "direct" feedback, more like "cherry-picked". It doesn't acknowledge anyone on the forum who would argue against any of these points in the way a chart or simple percentage would on each subject matter. A bunch of these feel more like arm-chair game designer proposals than valid critiques.

It looks nice though.

"Feedback" doesn't mean that people wants them to implement everything.
 

ShiftyHermit

Member
Oct 27, 2017
421
This is an overwhelming amount of suggestions, I hope the people of Atlus do not think people didn't like their game, because it was really good.

Some of those suggestions would add a ton of development time while others I feel are pretty good quality of life changes that would only make their games much better. I hope Atlus at least reads through them and discusses each point.
 

Hopping_Mad

User banned for use of alt account
Banned
Nov 13, 2017
1,077
Australia
Some of this stuff is straight up "I like japanese games except for their cultural attitudes that bother me. Change it, thanks." How about we dont ruin a game for doing its own thing to cater to the vocal minority.
 
OP
OP
Son of Sparda

Son of Sparda

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,614
Some of this stuff is straight up "I like japanese games except for their cultural attitudes that bother me. Change it, thanks." How about we dont ruin a game for doing its own thing to cater to the vocal minority.
From OP:
2) This won't ruin Persona.
The most surprising thing that I never thought I would have to worry about was people thinking that Atlus might actually look at this list and make Persona 6 exactly like that. No developer takes feedback from fans and makes their next games exactly based on that.

To quote my favorite developer Hideaki Itsuno on this subject:
I like to listen to the fan feedback but not necessarily do exactly what they've asked. Instead I think "Well that's what they like and this is why they want that, but how can I even go above and beyond that with my own idea that will hopefully satisfy those fan desires?"
So we are just telling Atlus what we want. What they do with this feedback is completely up to them. And that's assuming that this reaches Atlus' hands or they even care about it, which brings me to my last point.
 

Smash Kirby

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 7, 2017
4,069
This is an overwhelming amount of suggestions, I hope the people of Atlus do not think people didn't like their game, because it was really good.

Some of those suggestions would add a ton of development time while others I feel are pretty good quality of life changes that would only make their games much better. I hope Atlus at least reads through them and discusses each point.
I think it is more about sharing the love for the game, and trying to give constructive criticism for a game series is well beloved. I personally wished that FemPC wasn't treated like trash by Atlus.
 

tokkun

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,406
This is a huge list, and it's not clear at all which items are high priority and which are minor. I think you would have done to rank these suggestions in some way - for instance by doing a Y/N poll on each suggestion or giving people a certain number of points to allocate to a limited number of suggestions like in GOTY threads.