• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
Oct 26, 2017
10,499
UK
Brown was condemned, his fan chose to let it go, it's different, and I believe Trump's cases are still ongoing

You're avoiding my question. You've failed to mention any many who've had their lives ruined by accusations judged as false despite the fact it's something men should be worried about, surely if it was a real concern you'd be able to mention other people off of the top of your head? As you didn't it looks like you built your entire view over a case you didn't understand or research that doesn't hold up at all, whilst at the same time it's easy for me to come up with fucking lists of men who've abused women and haven't had their lives destroyed?

Can you not see the issue with your line of thought and how it's biased? Even looking into studies outside of the celebrity world it's hard to find examples of accusations that didn't result in convictions having hugely negative effects on men's lives, outside of if they have mental health issues.

ot astounds me that the kind of people who cry about unreported rapes being highly overestimated (usually based off of misreading/misunderstanding and misrepresenting this one study) are the same crowd who'll point to how rape accusations that don't lead to convictions objectivly ruin men's lives with no data outside of a few anecdotes.
 
Last edited:

Slayven

Never read a comic in his life
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
92,987
Not sure if this was posted but this is directly from his manager:




UhmRMeP.jpg



I see Henry as one of the good guys (I know that could have been said for many that have been accused of allegations) but personally, I don't think he's a bad guy.
Wait what? Dude you said the words........
 

cebri

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
221
Not a good statement

Women are not out trying to falsely accuse men and destroy them, they just want their fucking safety and privacy. If she says no, don't fucking chase her, Cavill

Some of them apparently do:

Man 'falsely accused of rape' says he's 'too afraid' to go anywhere alone
https://metro.co.uk/2018/04/16/man-false

My case is tip of iceberg, says man falsely accused of rape
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/9...e-fails-to-disclose-evidence-robert-adlington

Met Police apologise to 22-year-old man falsely accused of rape after failing to disclose crucial text messages
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...osure-arrest-mistake-detectives-a8184916.html

False rape accusation 'destroyed life' of Surrey man
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-surrey-11676804
 

Terrell

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,624
Canada
Extraordinarily inelegant, but some of the more extreme responses in here somewhat validate his point.

Many happy relationships would never had been formed had one side not continued to pursue after an initial "no". That's not necessarily referring to forcing yourself onto a person sexually which is the way some people in this thread want to read it.

And just as many would have been formed with other people who don't pull that bullshit, possibly happier relationships than the ones they have with people who play mind games right from the outset.
Just because it worked for some people doesn't mean it's a good thing to keep doing. One could make the same statement about shotgun weddings, doesn't make it a good thing that we should continue permitting in the slightest.

WTF at this thread... I like ERA for a lot of things, but consistently jumping to the worst conclusions and lacking any sort of empathy or forgiveness or realizing that people can in fact become better people is just a bad look for the forum.

I have empathy for Cavill and can forgive what he said, as I'm sure the majority in this thread will be able to do, as well. I won't excuse what he said or pretend the intent behind some of it doesn't matter in the interim in order to do that, though.

You can question and challenge the expressed opinion in the strongest of terms without a long-term condemnation. Those 2 things don't need to go hand in hand as you seem to believe.

I've been falsely accused twice, once by a former best friend of mine because I wouldn't date her due to not wanting to potentially ruin a friendship and once by a co-worker because I dated her friend instead of her due to not wanting a work relationship. Both of these happened during High School or right after. I lost two of my best friends and was on shaky terms with multiple other friends because of it. But sure, go ahead and pretend like false accusations don't happen and they don't ruin lives.

Then again, I wouldn't be surprised if people in this thread just assume I did it and start calling me a sexual abuser.

Edit: It just boggles my mind that some people can't come to grips with the reality that there is a very real problem with actual sexual assault being far too prevalent, while it also being true that false accusations do happen and it's something that certain people are justifiably afraid of whether due to past experience or the position they're in.

Oh COME ON with this. False accusations, as horrid as they are, would happen with or without people being willing to believe the alleged victims and take them seriously, so don't come down on people for taking issue with the notion he expressed that would see us regress back to a time when practically no victims were taken seriously or able to do something about it, just so he can woo a woman to his personal taste.

I'm not saying it's rational to have those fears, but anxiety rarely is. As for the men who have it, many millions do, just like tons of other phobias.

I've heard of making a mountain out of a molehill, but this is closer to making a mountain out of an atomic particle.
 
Last edited:

Strelok

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,264
Karnaca, Serkonos
Justice system is the way it is because lawmakers want to curtail behavior and the judges are there to make sure laws are respected.
It's neither perfect by design or in practice.
That it takes dozens of victims to make famous serial abusers fall is something straight out of the onion.
Someone like Weinstein is STILL not in jail after decades of abuse, to claim that the justice system is doing anything close to justice is baffling, might as well claim the EPA is currently protecting the environment.
It's not perfect, sure but people no longer want to be associated with Weinstein because there are so many people accusing him that it is probably true, and I approve their decision he isn't in jail because it would be difficult to prove. On the other hand, just because one person accuses you does not mean that you should be treated the same way, when it could be false, people should not be this fast to condemn you. Innocent until proven guilty, but I agree with not fucking with someone who is probably guilty(based on multiple testimonies or whatever) when his guilt cannot be proven
 

sabrina

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,174
newport beach, CA
Some of them apparently do:

Man 'falsely accused of rape' says he's 'too afraid' to go anywhere alone
https://metro.co.uk/2018/04/16/man-false

My case is tip of iceberg, says man falsely accused of rape
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/9...e-fails-to-disclose-evidence-robert-adlington

Met Police apologise to 22-year-old man falsely accused of rape after failing to disclose crucial text messages
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...osure-arrest-mistake-detectives-a8184916.html

False rape accusation 'destroyed life' of Surrey man
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-surrey-11676804
Please read this.

https://qz.com/980766/the-truth-about-false-rape-accusations/
 

Strelok

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,264
Karnaca, Serkonos
You're avoiding my question. You've failed to mention any many who've had their lives ruined by accusations judged as false despite the fact it's something men should be worried about, surely if it was a real concern you'd be able to mention other people off of the top of your head? As you didn't it looks like you built your entire view over a case you didn't understand or research that doesn't hold up at all, whilst at the same time it's easy for me to come up with fucking lists of men who've abused women and haven't had their lives destroyed?

Can you not see the issue with your line of thought and how it's biased? Even looking into studies outside of the celebrity world it's hard to find examples of accusations that didn't result in convictions having hugely negative effects on men's lives, outside of if they have mental health issues.

ot astounds me that the kind of people who cry about unreported rapes being highly overestimated (usually based off of misreading/misunderstanding one study) are the same crowd who'll point to how rape accusations that don't lead to convictions objectivly ruin men's lives with no data outside of a few anecdotes.
The thing is, it is as difficult to prove an accusation is false than it is to prove it true. Having more guilty men not convicted of aggression than innocent falsely accused does not make it right
 

PhazonBlonde

User requested ban
Banned
May 18, 2018
3,293
Somewhere deep in space
Some of them apparently do:

Man 'falsely accused of rape' says he's 'too afraid' to go anywhere alone
https://metro.co.uk/2018/04/16/man-false

My case is tip of iceberg, says man falsely accused of rape
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/9...e-fails-to-disclose-evidence-robert-adlington

Met Police apologise to 22-year-old man falsely accused of rape after failing to disclose crucial text messages
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...osure-arrest-mistake-detectives-a8184916.html

False rape accusation 'destroyed life' of Surrey man
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-surrey-11676804
Oh look, 4 accounts. Let's weigh those against the millions of women who have been raped or sexually assaulted. Should I post about how Weinstein still isn't in jail? Or about the woman in India who was gang raped to death with a tire iron? Clearly rape is less important than false accusations, so much so that it becomes the focal point in every thread about rape
 

GatsGatsby

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,282
West Columbia, SC
Yeah that seems to be very poorly said. Wooing and chasing is fine unless the woman says no then you apologize and wish them well. Don't continue to woo and Chase. Don't be a dick basically.
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
16,746
It's not perfect, sure but people no longer want to be associated with Weinstein because there are so many people accusing him that it is probably true, and I approve their decision he isn't in jail because it would be difficult to prove. On the other hand, just because one person accuses you does not mean that you should be treated the same way, when it could be false, people should not be this fast to condemn you. Innocent until proven guilty, but I agree with not fucking with someone who is probably guilty(based on multiple testimonies or whatever) when his guilt cannot be proven
Innocent until proven guilty is like free speech.
It means that the state cannot jail you with cause.
It says nothing about private entities or the public at large having to act like nothing happened.
Also someone accused by 1 person should absolutely not be treated the same way Weinstein for the same reason you don't treat someone who killed someone like a serial killer.
The world over the justice systems are far from handling sexual harrassement (let alone assault) in the way it should to deter people from the crime.
 

PhazonBlonde

User requested ban
Banned
May 18, 2018
3,293
Somewhere deep in space
It could be a hundred times that number and still be a drop in the bucket. But a man who's determined to ignore reason doesn't need statistics to back him up.
Pretty much. As another user said, men fear false accusation, women fear actually being raped. Yet they play it like it's equal level of suffering. So fucking disgusting how that downplays rape and sexual assault.
 

Seesaw15

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,809
Sounds like something Jeremy Renner or Chris Evans would say during a drunk European press tour. I bet the Cruise Missile is pissed. Don't want any of that bad press to mess with his MI money.
http://i./i/pix/2015/04/23/17/27E8551C00000578-0-image-m-60_1429807216181.jpg
 

BernardoOne

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,289
This forum is another level, if you actually read what he's saying it's about potentially being falsely accused of doing something he didn't do just because he's a man in the spotlight, if I was famous I'd avoid women like the plague, all it would take is one woman to be turned down or had a few dates and decided it doesn't feel right for a woman who is slightly crazy to lose her shit (I'm not talking about all women so don't try and start some debate on this) all because a famous person turned her down, and in the current climate it's not a bad thing.

Just like feminism, most feminists are decent people that are fighting for equal rights between men and women and absolutely deserve it, and yet you'll have that small minority that brings Feminism a bad name.
If you actually read what he was saying, you'd see the shit he said about "it's a shame no means no now"

"Now? Now you really can't pursue someone further than, 'No'. It's like, 'OK, cool'. But then there's the, 'Oh why'd you give up?' And it's like, 'Well, because I didn't want to go to jail?'"
People defending this dumbass either haven't read the fucking interview or are some big pieces of shit. The statement above is indefensible.
 

Ketkat

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,727
It's not perfect, sure but people no longer want to be associated with Weinstein because there are so many people accusing him that it is probably true, and I approve their decision he isn't in jail because it would be difficult to prove. On the other hand, just because one person accuses you does not mean that you should be treated the same way, when it could be false, people should not be this fast to condemn you. Innocent until proven guilty, but I agree with not fucking with someone who is probably guilty(based on multiple testimonies or whatever) when his guilt cannot be proven

I don't understand how you can just handwave it as a "It's not perfect" if we can't even get someone like Weinstein in jail easily. The vast majority of sexual assault cases will never be anywhere close to his level of behavior, and it's still taking a very long time to get anything done. With the way the court systems are currently set up, its very difficult to even get close to a conviction especially in cases where some people are protected, and that's why the #MeToo movement was on Twitter and not in the court room. Because the court systems just aren't meeting the needs of people who are sexually assaulted.
 

Lwyn

Banned for use of an alt-account
Banned
Jul 2, 2018
168
Pretty much. As another user said, men fear false accusation, women fear actually being raped. Yet they play it like it's equal level of suffering. So fucking disgusting how that downplays rape and sexual assault.

Some people only need one piece of evidence to validate their claim even if the evidence doesn't highlight the whole picture.
 

Kasumin

Member
Nov 19, 2017
1,929
I've been falsely accused twice, once by a former best friend of mine because I wouldn't date her due to not wanting to potentially ruin a friendship and once by a co-worker because I dated her friend instead of her due to not wanting a work relationship. Both of these happened during High School or right after. I lost two of my best friends and was on shaky terms with multiple other friends because of it. But sure, go ahead and pretend like false accusations don't happen and they don't ruin lives.

Then again, I wouldn't be surprised if people in this thread just assume I did it and start calling me a sexual abuser.

Edit: It just boggles my mind that some people can't come to grips with the reality that there is a very real problem with actual sexual assault being far too prevalent, while it also being true that false accusations do happen and it's something that certain people are justifiably afraid of whether due to past experience or the position they're in.

I'm going to sound cold saying this, but... your personal experience still doesn't really justify you defending Cavill here. Cavill is a successful Hollywood actor, which means that he has resources that most regular people don't: lawyers, publicists, and heck even PR firms that offer damage control for public faux pas. He's in a far more powerful position than most women he could choose to date.

You fretting over one possible accusation ruining his entire career is overblown.

I'm not dismissing that false accusations exist. I'm just saying that in the grand scheme of things, especially if we're talking about celebrities like Henry Cavill, they happen so rarely as to be arguably insignificant. Especially in the face of the many, many cases of sexual harassment that DO happen. Your own personal experiences with false accusations are much different than what happens to people in the public eye. Why in the world would someone want to make a false accusation against a major public figure when they know they'd be subject to just as much, if not more, scrutiny than the public figure?

The accusations are so career ending it took over 30 years and nearly a hundred women to take out Bill Cosby!
Like in what reality people are living that 1 accusation is the end of the world?


So if I get this right we should only be wary of idiots who leave enough trails to be prosecuted and serial abusers?

Let's not forget how much it took to bring Cosby and Weinsten to justice. Fretting over the poor celebrities who could be taken down by one false accusation!!! is not just disingenuous, it's ridiculous.
 

lacer

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,693
I don't act like a creep so....

Isn't hard. A woman isn't gonna call you a creep for being nervous. She may not be into nervous types but I think it's quite fair to say they can discern between creepy and not creepy.
ah gotcha. 'im not a creep' said no creepy dudes ever
 

Lwyn

Banned for use of an alt-account
Banned
Jul 2, 2018
168

Ferrs

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
18,829
So I wonder, for the people that think that celebs have to be wary because women are around there wanting to false accuse them of rape/harassment. Whats the master plan there?
No really, where is the benefit? One side is simply dating a celeb and living a comfy live (in all aspects) with the person you love, other is being exposed to a lot of controvery, media, people on twitter harassing you because you accuse a celeb.... and this is supposedly something people looks for?
 
Oct 26, 2017
10,499
UK
The thing is, it is as difficult to prove an accusation is false than it is to prove it true. Having more guilty men not convicted of aggression than innocent falsely accused does not make it right

That's utterly bullshit though. You've managed to prove that by not being able to give any examples (anecdotes) of men whose lives have been ruined by false accusations, let alone studies into it? Your whole opinion of this topic is clearly being informed by your fear of someone calling you a rapist and the imaginary consequences of what you could face, rather than opening your eyes to what actually happens in the world? The funny thing is I could give you multiple personal examples of women I've known personally who've gone through hell due to facing abuse at the hands of none, including family members, but I wouldn't use them in this argument because I know my own actual experiences (note: not just fears I've made up) don't necessarily reflect the world as a whole where as social movements or studies are much more reflective of that.

Some of them apparently do:

Man 'falsely accused of rape' says he's 'too afraid' to go anywhere alone
https://metro.co.uk/2018/04/16/man-false

My case is tip of iceberg, says man falsely accused of rape
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/9...e-fails-to-disclose-evidence-robert-adlington

Met Police apologise to 22-year-old man falsely accused of rape after failing to disclose crucial text messages
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...osure-arrest-mistake-detectives-a8184916.html

False rape accusation 'destroyed life' of Surrey man
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-surrey-11676804

I said anecdotes aren't reflective of what commonly happens because of stories like these. Of the 3 articles that load to me 2 of them revolve around errors in policing with the one that ended in significant damage revolving around police incompetency (including the victim seeking significant compensation) rather than the accusation.

Whilst with the 3rd I'd argue the damage isn't caused at all by the false accusation from the info we're given; rather by the emotional toll his wife's betrayal, her theft of over £23,500 took, and her potentially her relatively short sentence though the article doesn't go into any details over he he was compensation he'll receive. Basically the only part of the article that mentions how the false accusation itself changed his life is:

"Mr Joseph said the period after his arrest was difficult mentally. He felt isolated because his former work colleagues knew of the accusations and he was worried about the outcome."

Which makes the accusations themselves not exactly sound life destroying?
 

cebri

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
221
Calling the cases you don't want to hear about "anecdotes", just proves you are incredibly dishonest.
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
16,746
*describes annecdotes*
- lalalalalalala you don't just don't want to hear the truth!

Like what?
Are we so prompt in decrying and fearing false accusation of murder and al?
 

sabrina

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,174
newport beach, CA
Calling the cases you don't want to hear about "anecdotes", just proves you are incredibly dishonest.
Nobody is saying it never happens. Nobody. Not even one person.

What we're saying is that false accusations are so few and far between, and perpetrated a lot of the times by a third party, and they rarely hold up in court to begin with.

Discounting statistics is intellectually dishonest.
 

cebri

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
221
Nobody is saying it never happens. Nobody. Not even one person.

What we're saying is that false accusations are so few and far between, and perpetrated a lot of the times by a third party, and they rarely hold up in court to begin with.

Discounting statistics is intellectually dishonest.

Who discounted statitstics? Did i say most rape accusations were false? I answered to a comment which said woman don't want to falsely accuse of rape. I pointed the obvious, with newspaper articles, that is a claim that is not always true.

And yes, minimizing the effect that those false accusations had on these men who suffered them, just to try to prove a point, is dishonest.
 
Oct 26, 2017
10,499
UK
Calling the cases you don't want to hear about "anecdotes", just proves you are incredibly dishonest.

I challenged the articles directly? Would you care to respond to those criticisms instead of just calling me dishonest? They're anecdotes as in there's no evidence at all to suggest that the rape allocations destroyed the men featured in them, in none of the 3 examples are the accusations and societal stigma from them the focus. The focus is either on poor policing or on the effects of a wife using a false accusation so she has an opportunity to abandon her husband and steal over £23,500?

Edit:

Who discounted statitstics? Did i say most rape accusations were false? I answered to a comment which said woman don't want to falsely accuse of rape. I pointed the obvious, with newspaper articles, that is a claim that is not always true.

And yes, minimizing the effect that those false accusations had on these men who suffered them, just to try to prove a point, is dishonest.

I poorly worded my post. I was using your articles as examples to illustrate why anecdotes of how much damage rape accusations do to society as a whole are a bad idea to Strelok. Though, given how you're still trying to claim articles that don't really go into the damage of the false accusations are an attempt for me to minimise the damage they do, I suppose my criticism of how they don't say much about the damage of false accusations and it's dishonest to try and use them as examples of such is still valid.
 
Last edited:

Surfinn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,590
USA
This thread is a fucking graveyard.

How hard is it to just side with women instead of men in power saying dumb shit about sexual harassment and basic dating interactions?

Embarrassing. And his statement sucks.
 

sabrina

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,174
newport beach, CA
Who discounted statitstics? Did i say most rape accusations were false? I answered to a comment which said woman don't want to falsely accuse of rape. I pointed the obvious, with newspaper articles, that is a claim that is not always true.

And yes, minimizing the effect that those false accusations had on these men who suffered them, just to try to prove a point, is dishonest.
Because the amount of women who have a reason to falsely accuse someone of rape is an insignificant number. It's not enough to say that it's happened a few times. It would need to happen with regularity for this to be a worthy counterpoint.
 

cebri

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
221
Because the amount of women who have a reason to falsely accuse someone of rape is an insignificant number. It's not enough to say that it's happened a few times. It would need to happen with regularity for this to be a worthy counterpoint.

Again, it doesn't prove my point invalid that the claim to which i was answering is false.

However, I do wonder now what number you would consider statistically relevant. According the article you just linked, 2% to 10% of rape accusations are proven to be false, depending on the study. I don't consider 1 in 50 to 1 in 10, to be statistically irrelevant at all. This men are a minority, yes, but the deserved to be defended as well as any other person wrongly accused of having commited a crime. And in neither case, be dismissed as anecdotes.
 

FFNB

Associate Game Designer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
6,060
Los Angeles, CA
God damn, if I was a woman, I'd be fucking terrified of interacting with men.

I mean, shit, I'm a black man, terrified of interacting with police, so I guess there's some empathy I'm feeling there.

My wife is often afraid to go out and run errands by herself, because she gets harassed by men. EVERY. TIME. There hasn't been a time she's made a run to the store without coming back with a story about how some guys were propositioning her for sex, offering to impregnate her, or asking if she wanted a "flesh burrito," or commenting on her body, looks, boobs, butt, whatever. It's fucking gross. Men need to get a god damned grip, and they also need to understand that all women aren't "harpy's" and "crazy bitches out to do a man dirty." Like, damn, the misogyny in every single thread that has to do with sexual assault is fucking gross. It's even scarier because so many men don't even realize they are being misogynistic when the shit they're saying "in defense" of dumb comments like Cavill's. My wife's been telling me that he trips her "creep-dar" for years, and I never thought much of it. At this point, I'm beginning to suspect she has a Spider-Sense for this shit, because she's called out a lot of people that ended up being scum, especially to women, for ages, and now those same men are getting outed by the #metoo women. What I'm getting at is this: Believe Women. Give them the same benefit of the doubt you're willing to give men. It's really not that hard to do.
 

Platy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,607
Brazil
Again, it doesn't prove my point invalid that the claim to which i was answering is false.

However, I do wonder now what number you would consider statistically relevant. According the article you just linked, 2% to 10% of rape accusations are proven to be false, depending on the study. I don't consider 1 in 50 to 1 in 10, to be statistically irrelevant at all. This men are a minority, yes, but the deserved to be defended as well as any other person wrongly accused of having commited a crime. And in neither case, be dismissed as anecdotes.

He is a celebrity. You need like 50 women accusing a celebrity of rape to exist a chance of SOMETHING happening to him