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Which was the worst character in B vs S?

  • Ben Affeck's Batman

    Votes: 351 59.9%
  • Henry Cavill's Superman

    Votes: 235 40.1%

  • Total voters
    586

Nightfall

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,959
Germany
Really hard decision... both actors are a really good fit for the role. Though I think Cavill is a better fit for Superman than Affleck for Batman.
The writing for Superman went downhill very very fast, but Batman's very closely behind.

Oh and I also still like Man of Steel
 

Lost Knight

Member
Mar 17, 2019
944
West Virginia
Tough call. Both of them really hamstrung by things other than their acting ability.

Cavill is a charisma vacuum in these films and these films alone. His character isn't superman at all, and some of the scenes and dialogue feel designed to make him unrelatable. Although man of steel is the best film with either of them in. He comes across as cold and uncaring, and I kinda hate the suit too. Then there's that moustache CGI face nonsense.

Affleck gives a decent performance, but again we never really get to see him be Batman. He's murderous, and doesn't really feel like a meticulous detective, or like he's using fear to intimidate, outside of a few scenes. He's in the least well written and directed films, and he even visibly gains and loses weight between scenes as he oscillates between dour humourless overly serious batman and goofy cracking wise Tony Stark wannabe.

I really dislike both versions of these characters, but I blame Snyder and the producers more than the actors, they're both capable actors.

Might go for Cavill being the better of the two because at least the Man Of Steel trailers hint at a far better version of that character that could have been possible.

Do we get a thread on whether Lois Lane or Amanda Waller is worse in the DCEU next?

That handcuffs scene with Lois Lane is the closest Cavill had ever gotten to being Superman, Affleck never got that close.
 

grandmastashi

Member
Nov 6, 2017
143
They were both ok, but I maintain that after Bale it was still too soon for more Batman. I think there would be a lot more excitement for the next film with Pattinson if we hadn't had Affleck.
 

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,094
They were both ok, but I maintain that after Bale it was still too soon for more Batman. I think there would be a lot more excitement for the next film with Pattinson if we hadn't had Affleck.
I think it's gonna play out like Joker. Affleck wasn't as bad as Leto, but it does kinda act like a pallette cleanser, so Pattinson doesn't have to be compared to Bale, but to Affleck. Like how Phoenix was so obviously better than Leto that the Ledger comparison didn't matter as much.
 

Deleted member 7051

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,254
I think the problem with Superman was he wasn't allowed to be fun. The guy that shows up in the back half of Justice League is the Superman I wanted to see. He was relaxed, had clear priorities, had a sense of humour and he actually smiled! Imagine that.

Snyder's idea that Superman had to go through some shit before he became the Superman we know and love doesn't work when you're trying to build a connected universe to rival Marvel's.
 

mojo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,966
Cavill is one of the worst actors working but he's a good looking white dude so people defend it. Like that bathtub scene with Lois is one of the most awkward scenes I've seen in any movie.
 
Oct 28, 2017
139
Another one of these threads?

23e.gif
 

Legacy

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,704
Should really change the question to, which writers were worse?
 

Dio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,097
both were fine, just stunted by snyder and writers being incredibly mediocre.
 

Deleted member 36563

User requested account closure
Banned
Dec 20, 2017
79
Man of steel is a criminally underrated movie. A lot of the BvS theatrical cut had problems but the ultimate edition is a solid movie. I love the donner movies but Superman returns showed me that version of Superman is dated and just not that interesting anymore. I loved that Snyder actually made him more human and conflicted, Snyder sharing black suit Superman and other little snippets of him turning Dark just makes it sound so much more interesting than copying the Reeves formula.

Justice league Superman just didn't work for me, it's like we went back in time 40 years and played the same score and said the same lines. I also love most of the MCU movies, they have their on way of doing things and they have balanced humor, action and story really well. I thought it was great that DC were more moody and serious. It's nice to have different things. When I watched Shazam on the big screen it felt like I was watching a marvel movie. It's a shame for me personally that we wont see Snyder complete his vision.

In terms of the topic, Affleck needed a solo movie and Cavill nailed it in MoS and BvS. He technically is still Superman and I wouldn't be surprised to see him play the role again.
 

Eoin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,103
I think that the poll question would be more accurate if it were "Which one was worse - Zack Snyder's Superman vs Zack Snyder's Batman?" - the really bad aspects of those characters don't appear to have come from Cavill or Affleck.

I think that the major problems with the characters stem from the same two things:

1. Their standard hero careers happen off-screen.

For Superman, we see his early life and how we becomes Superman in Man of Steel. Then, by the time Batman V Superman comes along, he's already a big established hero and all he does in the films from there is fight against gigantic world-ending threats. It's like if we only saw Iron Man and then jumped to Infinity War (maybe with a few scenes from other films added as flashbacks). All the character-defining stuff happens out of sight.

With Batman there's an even bigger gap because we're introduced to an older Batman coming towards the end of his career. The movie is happy to show the results of big character events (like Robin's murder), but those references only go part-way towards explaining the character behaviour we're seeing on-screen. It feels like we're missing a trilogy of films that show how this Batman got from Year One to here.

2. Zack Snyder's need to do big moments.

Snyder really does know how to set up a visually striking scene. You know the ones. The trinity of DC heroes standing, ready for battle, surrounded by flames. Superman, testifying in court, suited up, a being of stupendously cosmic power answering to civil authority. Bruce Wayne, running towards the collapsing building. If you look through Batman V Superman or Justice League, you will find tons of really brilliant desktop wallpapers.

What Snyder isn't so good at is figuring out why those scenes should happen - the motivations that drive the characters to do what they're doing and the plot that moves the characters into those positions. That means a lot of both BvS and Justice League are kind of paper-thin setups for the next desktop wallpaper that needs to happen. Batman and Superman aren't doing the things that a familiar Batman or Superman might do, they're doing the things that need to happen to get them to the next big set-piece or iconic comic-book moment.

So who's worse? Since the biggest problems affect them both equally, it's a really close call. They're both too careless - a character trait that doesn't suit either, but especially doesn't suit Batman. They're both too grim and humourless - again, character traits that don't really suit either, but these ones especially don't suit Superman. In the end I think Superman is worse - the misunderstandings about his character are bigger than the ones about Batman, and would have been easier to fix. Shazam! even manages to inch the character closer to where it should have been, so Superman's own films should have done a better job than that.
 
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WillyFive

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,976
Ben Affleck was a great Bruce Wayne, despite being the most laughable in-costume Batman since Adam West.

Henry Cavill was just cardboard, no redeeming values. Of course, we know now it was because of Snyder.


Both better than most of MCU actors.

I can't think of even any extras in the MCU as bland.
 

Khasim

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,260
I feel like it's hard to judge the actors given how bad the scripts were in all of their movies, but with what we're given I must say that I mostly buy Affleck as both being both Bruce Wayne and Batman while I don't buy Cavill as either Superman or Clark Kent. He just feels stiff and inhuman, which is ironic since it's what Batman is supposed to feel like.
 

Deleted member 36563

User requested account closure
Banned
Dec 20, 2017
79
I see a lot of complaints about MoS and BvS and them being humorless. Can we not have a serious take on Superman like we did with Nolans Batmans. Do we have to have the quippy dialogue? I don't get it. MoS was a great sci-fi alien invasion movie, it still has some of the best action, visuals, scores to date. I see alot of the criticism aimed this movie because it didn't fit their idea of what Superman is.

It came across to me they were going for that idea a couple of movies down the line. Man of steel was about someone conflicted by his both fathers, Pa kent literally drilled it into him when he was younger about questioning and trusting the human race. Which leads to the BvS storyline and him having no faith in humanity. The idea Snyder portrays is perfectly fine, if anything its a really interesting take than having Superman deliver cheesy 1 liners and saving cats out of trees. It was refreshing.
 

Modest_Modsoul

Living the Dreams
Member
Oct 29, 2017
23,554
I'm pretty neutral to both.

Though at least I enjoy Man of Steel and yes, even BvS to certain degree.

+ I love when Batman kills.
 

FormatCompatible

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,071
I would've maybe like to have seen BatAffleck in his own movie or something, and I never want to see Cavill's Superman ever again.
 

jobrro

The Fallen
Nov 19, 2017
1,621
I liked both. Maybe I am forgiving to these characters but I even liked the movies for the most part, at least until Justice League. JL was just...a thing that exists.
 

LossAversion

The Merchant of ERA
Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,663
Justice League really fucked up Batman. He was all over the place. Not that the movie did anything particularly well.
 

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,094
I see a lot of complaints about MoS and BvS and them being humorless. Can we not have a serious take on Superman like we did with Nolans Batmans. Do we have to have the quippy dialogue? I don't get it. MoS was a great sci-fi alien invasion movie, it still has some of the best action, visuals, scores to date. I see alot of the criticism aimed this movie because it didn't fit their idea of what Superman is.

It came across to me they were going for that idea a couple of movies down the line. Man of steel was about someone conflicted by his both fathers, Pa kent literally drilled it into him when he was younger about questioning and trusting the human race. Which leads to the BvS storyline and him having no faith in humanity. The idea Snyder portrays is perfectly fine, if anything its a really interesting take than having Superman deliver cheesy 1 liners and saving cats out of trees. It was refreshing.
I don't mind them being more serious, but they are extremely unrelatable. Bale batman wasn't cracking wise regularly, but still felt like a well rounded human character with a personality and multiple dimensions, characterised through interesting dialogue.
 

Ringten

Member
Nov 15, 2017
6,195
I like them both. It's just that the movies sucked. Even they can't carry a turd!

(Liked Man of Steel however! Minus the tornado scene)
 

Lothars

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,765
Cavill is a good actor but he was a bad superman starring in three bad movies. Affleck is a good batman who I wish would have got a chance to shine in his own movie
 

Deleted member 17388

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,994
Superman was an underutilized and misunderstood character. It had some moments in Justice League but that's about it.

I voted Batman for plot reasons :v
(And because he didn't recognize Wonder Woman when she was with him, he call her)
 

Beef Supreme

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,073
The irony of this comparison is that they were actually almost perfect for the roles. It was the writers that fucked it up.
 

Cocksman

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,514
Both did the best they could being directed by someone who doesn't understand the characters.
 

Deleted member 36563

User requested account closure
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Dec 20, 2017
79
I don't mind them being more serious, but they are extremely unrelatable. Bale batman wasn't cracking wise regularly, but still felt like a well rounded human character with a personality and multiple dimensions, characterised through interesting dialogue.

There were numerous flashbacks displaying his conflicted character and what molded him into being the adult clark we saw in the movie. He was bullied, silent and a loner traveling job to job, this was due to his fathers protection of him. This wasn't a guy who loved everything, the world was shit to him growing up and he couldn't do nothing about it. That's pretty human no? To me the general opinion I see of this movie is that "It's not my Superman and the Snyder doesn't understand the characters" Its pretty obvious to me that he didn't want to recreate your superman. That doesn't make it a bad movie, people didn't like it because its not what they used too.
 

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,094
There were numerous flashbacks displaying his conflicted character and what molded him into being the adult clark we saw in the movie. He was bullied, silent and a loner traveling job to job, this was due to his fathers protection of him. This wasn't a guy who loved everything, the world was shit to him growing up and he couldn't do nothing about it. That's pretty human no? To me the general opinion I see of this movie is that "It's not my Superman and the Snyder doesn't understand the characters" Its pretty obvious to me that he didn't want to recreate your superman. That doesn't make it a bad movie, people didn't like it because its not what they used too.
I don't have a problem with taking a character in a different direction, but the direction they took them in is not interesting or entertaining. It's a depressing and nihilistic tone, but presented as if that's somehow heroic, and trying to deconstruct something that hasn't even been constructed. Doesn't help that most of their actions are done because "that's badass", and especially after Man of Steel they regularly drew on iconic comic book stories that were characters at the end of the line and pushed to the most cataclysmic scenarios. I don't mind huge world ending threats, but they work best if you feel invested in the characters. Which I never did.
 

Mars People

Comics Council 2020
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,181
The Murderman was worse that the Miserableman.
They were both absolutely awful insulting reditions of those characters though.
And I don't trust anyone who says they are a fan.
 

Soupman Prime

The Fallen
Nov 8, 2017
8,555
Boston, MA
I wanna say Affleck was better but Bats was terrible in Justice League. I still think of the trailer where Bruce is running into the smoke and destruction while everyone is running away. I enjoyed him in BvS but he could've been so much better.

Caville has the look but he just never felt like Superman. Did a better job of it in some of JL so it's probably on Snyder seeing how Whedon a actually made Supes a lil more light hearted.

*oh and where are all these anti DC threads people are whining about. It's an interesting question, imagine the comparisons after we see Pattinson suit up.