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Here Is an Great Clip Of Streamer Destiny Explaining how Edgy Jokes & Memes Can have Bad Outcomes & normalizes racism/bigotry

Mar 17, 2018
294
#1
So on The Rajj Royale podcast one of the topics that came up was can Memes & jokes lead to people becoming white Nationalist (Like PewDiePie saying the n word) & here is destiny explaining that people who make jokes about streamers (like doing coke) can lead to people who don't know it' a joke believing it and spreading it to other people who don't know it's a joke as well till the point where you don't know if it's true or not.

here is the full exchange
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,360
#2
listening to him trying to explain this basic shit to her as she pushes back with "it's not your responsibility" is infuriating

the internet was a mistake
 

Deleted member 51266

User requested account closure
Member
Dec 26, 2018
278
#5
In relation to Destiny, I just finished watching this video and it hit me pretty hard, was going to make a thread about it but I suppose a post here will suffice. I strongly recommend watching it.



It's made me realize that we've been approaching fighting back the alt-right the wrong way, and it's making things worse and worse with the 2020 US elections getting kick-started.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,165
#7
In relation to Destiny, I just finished watching this video and it hit me pretty hard, was going to make a thread about it but I suppose a post here will suffice. I strongly recommend watching it.



It's made me realize that we've been approaching fighting back the alt-right the wrong way, and it's making things worse and worse with the 2020 US elections getting kick-started.
Only 10 minutes in and this is a great video would almost like a separate thread.
 
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Nov 9, 2017
1,233
#8
Who is Tara Babcock anyway? Apart from a fucking idiot. Is she big on YouTube or Twitch or whatever? Don't feel like Googling her at work, just in case.
 
Oct 28, 2017
998
#9
I should watch more of Destiny's stuff. I come across videos like this every once in a while and he makes his points in such a clear and easily-understood manner.
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,643
#10
What a dumb format for a discussion, it's constantly breaking down and having people try to shout over each other. How can anyone listen to this?

Sounds like he's trying to make a worthwhile point, but I couldn't stick with it.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,518
#11
In relation to Destiny, I just finished watching this video and it hit me pretty hard, was going to make a thread about it but I suppose a post here will suffice. I strongly recommend watching it.



It's made me realize that we've been approaching fighting back the alt-right the wrong way, and it's making things worse and worse with the 2020 US elections getting kick-started.
Glad that kid has reaffirmed my actions. Every time a debate crops up, I actually sit there and invest the time to bat back the ideology while everyone else tells me I'm wasting my time.

Don't aim for the person you're talking to, aim for the people listening to them. They're easier to bring back to logic and reason.
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,490
#12
I should watch more of Destiny's stuff. I come across videos like this every once in a while and he makes his points in such a clear and easily-understood manner.
Yeah, he's clearly one of the less stupid and obnoxious big twitch streamers in english. He just talk waaaaaay too fast for me.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,331
Western Canada
#13
I'll have to give it a listen when I'm not at work, but this topic is pretty ironic for him considering he got permanently banned from this site for defending white people using the n-word privately among a group of friends.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,395
#14
Dear lord that format is obnoxious to listen to - sorry i couldn't comment on the subject itself, I just have never seen a podcast conducted this way.
 
Nov 9, 2017
1,233
#15
What a dumb format for a discussion, it's constantly breaking down and having people try to shout over each other. How can anyone listen to this?

Sounds like he's trying to make a worthwhile point, but I couldn't stick with it.
Agreed. It's the same for me with virtually any type of discussion in US news. "Here with us today is Dick Johnsson of the Newsly Times; Agatha Blergg, head analyst at Blergg Analytics; and the entire population of York County, Pennsylvania".
 
Oct 28, 2017
998
#17
Yeah, he's clearly one of the less stupid and obnoxious big twitch streamers in english. He just talk waaaaaay too fast for me.
True, though I think part of that comes from the discussion in these formats. Leave a gap inbetween sentences before you're finished with your point and someone will yell something over you.
 
Oct 28, 2017
3,213
welcome, nowhere
#18
I watched the whole thing.

I feel like Tara was being a devil's advocate, otherwise the whole thing would be one big lefty circle jerk. However, it is a little frustrating to know that large swaths of the audience are pretty much exactly thinking the exact same thing that she is.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,784
#19
Pretty tough to listen to with so many fingers in the pie, but it's a good clip overall. Destiny has had some problematic views and actions, but his efforts like these are the good things.

I wouldn't be surprised if the flat earth thing became a big thing again after beginning as some kind of joke.
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,080
#20
In relation to Destiny, I just finished watching this video and it hit me pretty hard, was going to make a thread about it but I suppose a post here will suffice. I strongly recommend watching it.



It's made me realize that we've been approaching fighting back the alt-right the wrong way, and it's making things worse and worse with the 2020 US elections getting kick-started.
I've been saying this for a while now, but people like Contrapoints and Destiny (mentioned in the video) definitely help me confirm my beliefs. Liberals still have this racist, obnoxious trucker caricature image in their heads when thinking about the (alt-)right. While they do exist, the newest addition to the gang is very different. A lot of them are downtrodden kids, whether they were bullied (see: anime and the alt-right), held down by their rural upbringing, or whatever.

There's a reason why the face of the alt-right movement are people like Ben Shapiro and arguably Jordan Peterson. They aren't machismo incarnate; they are pseudo-intellectuals. Where the left is tired of educating (because fuck, this has gone on for a long ass time), the right has figured out how to monetize pseudoscience. That's where all this genetic superiority comes from. All the phony case studies of immigration destroying societies. Vulnerable people are way more receptive of fake science that is "intuitive" ("It makes sense that different races have different IQs. Just look at dog breeds!") than people shouting them down about believing women and to stop being racist. We use the term "pearl clutcher" for the right a lot here, but if you spend 10s thinking about it, from an ignorant neutral's perspective, we seem to be the biggest pearl clutchers of them all.

Going back to the beginning. which is why speakers like Contrapoints and Destiny work and sick burns here don't. They actually speak to the people on the other side. With respect, BUT with a very firm grasp on the understanding that the alt-right is wrong. Turns out, you don't have to compromise one for the other.
 
Oct 25, 2017
15,119
#21
Going back to the beginning. which is why speakers like Contrapoints and Destiny work and sick burns here don't. They actually speak to the people on the other side. With respect, BUT with a very firm grasp on the understanding that the alt-right is wrong. Turns out, you don't have to compromise one for the other.
But destiny is a both sider who thinks he should be able to say the n word so idk
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,385
#22
Pretty sure this guy is perma-banned here for defending some really awful stuff. And his track record outside ERA is not, eh, "stellar" either.

Maybe he's making a great argument, but he's far too past the point of giving him the benefit of the doubt for me. No, thank you.
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,080
#23
But destiny is a both sider who thinks he should be able to say the n word so idk
I tried googling this and got a lot of noise about it, but not anything about what or why he said anything. Help here would be appreciated.

Regardless, I don't think Destiny's origin as a free speech edgelord is a surprise. But if you look at the community he fosters and you listen to what he says in these types of debates, it's fairly obvious what he's trying to do. And honestly, a (mostly?) reformed edgelord probably speaks better to the alr-right than the haughty superiority put on display here. And we need to think about why that is.
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,809
#24
I tried googling this and got a lot of noise about it, but not anything about what or why he said anything. Help here would be appreciated.

Regardless, I don't think Destiny's origin as a free speech edgelord is a surprise. But if you look at the community he fosters and you listen to what he says in these types of debates, it's fairly obvious what he's trying to do. And honestly, a (mostly?) reformed edgelord probably speaks better to the alr-right than the haughty superiority put on display here. And we need to think about why that is.
This is the post that got him permanently banned from ResetEra.

Wew lads. It's really late and there are a lot of ideas running around here. I'll chime in with my two cents, but this post is gonna be pretty sloppy so bear with me.

Firstly, I am not your friendly, neighborhood progressive. If your previous view of me was that, erase that from your head right now. I do not care, intrinsically, about minorities, or women, or people, or racism, or anything like that. It is not part of my rhetoric to convince people that these things are morally bad, it is not part of my characters to be inherently concerned with these things. I believe that feminism and equal opportunities for minorities tend to produce better outcomes worldwide. This is why I end up at many of the same positions that progressives end up.

I am repeating this one more time, my internal thought process is not motivated by any pure, morally virtuous desire to help people or make people feel better.

Now that we have that out of the way, let's talk about homophobic and racial slurs.

From a personal point of view, I don't think any word, inherently, should be off limits or out of bounds. There are times when using extremely vulgar language can achieve a great effect.

This, so far, should be undeniable.

Does racist language make a person racist? Does homophobic language make a person homophobic? Not necessarily, as much as it might upset some of you to consider this.

A person using homophobic language is not necessarily homophobic, though they oftentimes are unintentionally spreading homophobia.

This seems like a meaningless distinction, but I believe there's a great deal of difference between telling someone they are unintentionally empowering homophobic people vs being a homophobic person. Maybe you don't care, but to the person receiving the message, it matters, trust me.

As a public figure who lives in a society I have to be mindful of how I speak. Ultimately the way my message is interpreted by a viewer is my responsibility, or at least I believe I have some due diligence to ensure people aren't taking away the wrong message from my speech. This is why I generally avoid things like "faggot" or other types of heavy racial humor, and it's why I've been trying to edit out things like "retarded" and "autistic" from my vocabulary. I don't like the idea that people watching me could get an idea that I am homophobic in a way they might be, and I don't like the idea that racist people could listen to me and find companionship in what I'm saying, or some kind of affirmation in their horrible worldviews. I've written about this more extensively here, if you care to read.

Do I say offensive jokes privately that I would never say on stream? You better believe it. But why, what's the difference?

I have never much been concerned with the words themselves, but rather the thoughts/ideas they can spread.

A community that openly uses the word "faggot" probably feels unwelcoming because there are still a lot of gamers (and, larger, elements of society) that still act incredibly homophobic. If a friend of mine uses "faggot" in some insulting way in a private setting, I don't generally think twice about them saying it. If a stranger uses that word, I'm very uncomfortable around them because I don't know if they're actually a homophobic person.

These distinctions may be meaningless to you, and to some extent you can argue that using racial/homophobic slurs in ANY context should be off limits, and I'm fine with tackling those arguments. I generally don't like being called "racist" or "homophobic" because I believe my body of work (can u call a utube channel that tho) speaks for itself, but if you believe that my actions help to spread homophobic thought, maybe you don't care to make the distinction.

I'm sleeping and I'll answer what I can when I wake up, and maybe even proofread/edit this if there are major fuckups.

Stay safe my children.
Bold text is his, not mine.
 
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Nov 4, 2017
807
#25
This guy got famous because he would use the n word and homophobic slurs live on stream. He was the 1st pioneer of edgy streaming. Ironic
 
Oct 25, 2017
113
New Jersey
#27
This guy got famous because he would use the n word and homophobic slurs live on stream. He was the 1st pioneer of edgy streaming. Ironic
Ya, he often mentions how his use of the F slur started to attract people who actually hate gay people anf was the wakeup call that made him realize the power his words had and the conclusions he made in the OP video. He still a bit of an edge lord and I disagree with him on some issues, but he has helped me come around to many topics that I was dangerous leaning into an alt right direction. Like the other video with the guy who fell down the alt right hole, Destiny and Contrapoints are two of the most effective people to pull people out of the hole, as they know the alt right language and how to engage it.
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,080
#28
This is the post that got him permanently banned from ResetEra.
Thanks for that. If I'm reading between the lines here, that's a lot of words to defend his usage of the n-word. I agree with the premise that, for the ignorant, "A person using homophobic language is not necessarily homophobic, though they oftentimes are unintentionally spreading homophobia." holds true, but I don't like that he uses that to excuse himself when he should know better. And actually, in this context, the Destiny in the OP's video is basically saying the same thing, but painting the Destiny from that forum post as potentially being the bad guy. I don't follow him at all -- do we think he learned from that and similar experiences?

Anyway, in hindsight it was incorrect of me to bundle Destiny with Contrapoints, because Contra can deliver the same points (see: her "are traps gay?" video) without being a hypocrite. That being said, not everyone can be top class like Natalie, but the Destiny being presented here or the Destiny that debates and debunks alt-right thinkers on YT (their biggest recruiting platform) is unquestionably doing good. I think it's important to bring up these caveats when it comes to Destiny to educate people like me, but I don't think that aspect should take over the conversation being had in the OP.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,679
Sweden
#29
A few things to consider about Destiny.

One, he has evolved/changing his positions in the past. He used to be all about that marketplace of ideas, but came to the conclusion that it doesn't work and that deplatforming is entirely justifiable.

Two, he is a sociopath and shouldn't be your shining beacon of enlightment. That doesn't mean you can't learn stuff from him, and he does know his shit. These two are not mutually exclusive.

His interview with Jesse Lee Peterson was... interesting, in the same sense that your can't look away from a car crash.

 
Oct 28, 2017
2,490
#30
Two, he is a sociopath and shouldn't be your shining beacon of enlightment. That doesn't mean you can't learn stuff from him, and he does know his shit. These two are not mutually exclusive.
Well, he's a streamer. Almost none of them are worthy of being a "beacon of enlightment". And it seems that to be very popular on stream as an english speaker, one needs to be a sociopath/asshole. And of those very popular ones, he seems to be one of the least problematic.

Twitch as a platform is quite similar as Youtube : the top trending, especially in gaming, is littered with garbage people. So Destiny's "flickering" candle of enlightment feels blindingly bright in such a context. (and that's fucking sad)
 
Aug 22, 2018
2,167
#32
One reason I why I like, or can appreciate someone like Destiny, is because he will absolutely change his viewpoint on an issue, fundamentally, when he hears good arguments and considers them. He obviously can be an edgelord, but you can look at things he believed six months, two years, etc. ago, and you can see where he's changed his mind. And he has always trended towards being a better person and more progressive.

At the very least, he's useful for changing a good number of people's views toward more progressive ones. If he still thinks he can use the n-word jokingly with friends in private (I'm not sure if he still thinks that), and you want to dismiss him forever, that's completely understandable. I don't know why many people here wouldn't do that. (Personally, I don't even sing it when listening to music by myself.) But what he does in general is a good thing, IMO.
 
OP
OP
IceFireTerry
Mar 17, 2018
294
#33
What a dumb format for a discussion, it's constantly breaking down and having people try to shout over each other. How can anyone listen to this?

Sounds like he's trying to make a worthwhile point, but I couldn't stick with it.
It's a battle royale. after each round the chat votes who ever has the highest votes wind the round and gots to vote of one of two people with the lowest votes.
 
OP
OP
IceFireTerry
Mar 17, 2018
294
#34
A few things to consider about Destiny.

One, he has evolved/changing his positions in the past. He used to be all about that marketplace of ideas, but came to the conclusion that it doesn't work and that deplatforming is entirely justifiable.

Two, he is a sociopath and shouldn't be your shining beacon of enlightment. That doesn't mean you can't learn stuff from him, and he does know his shit. These two are not mutually exclusive.

His interview with Jesse Lee Peterson was... interesting, in the same sense that your can't look away from a car crash.

even if he does have antisocial personality disorder (Sociopath) does not inherently make you bad. woulden't that be ableist?
 
OP
OP
IceFireTerry
Mar 17, 2018
294
#36
I watched the whole thing.

I feel like Tara was being a devil's advocate, otherwise the whole thing would be one big lefty circle jerk. However, it is a little frustrating to know that large swaths of the audience are pretty much exactly thinking the exact same thing that she is.
ii don't think she is playing devil's advocate. a good chunk of centrist don't want to believe that pewdiepie (or anybody else) can influence people with jokes & memes and don't want to be held responsible for what they say
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,411
Sweden
#37
even if he does have antisocial personality disorder (Sociopath) does not inherently make you bad. woulden't that be ableist?
That is what he is saying, learn from him the good stuff.

Also remember Destiny getting slammed on stream and had a pornstar in a cottage or what it was, during his Starcraft 2 hey day.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,215
Halifax, NS
#39
even if he does have antisocial personality disorder (Sociopath) does not inherently make you bad. woulden't that be ableist?
Sociopaths lie and cheat to harm people for their own benefit. They live to enrich themselves to the detriment of others, unable to, or unwilling to, consider the feelings of those around them if it does not provide direct material benefit to themselves.

They need help, but you can't excuse or handwave criticism of them with the claim of ableism, that's giving them the crutch they need to not have to be confronted with the reality of their personality.
 
Nov 8, 2017
3,563
#41
This is the post that got him permanently banned from ResetEra.



Bold text is his, not mine.
I really do wonder what his thoughts are toward that post now, because his community absolutely roasted his ass for weeks over how dumb it was, and his behavior since seems to not match that edgelord rhetoric. Which is good, especially if he’s continuing to engage and dismantle these insane alt-righters.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,372
UK
#42
This is the post that got him permanently banned from ResetEra.



Bold text is his, not mine.
Destiny has repeatedly shown that he changes his opinion and opistion on topics over time. it seems incredibly disengenuous to completely dismiss him outright for an opinion that by the looks of it (looking at this full video clip and a couple of his more recent stuff) he doesn't necessarily believe anymore.

destiny is a good boi and he does a lot to shut down or convert the alt-right because of his way of debating.
 
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OP
OP
IceFireTerry
Mar 17, 2018
294
#44
Sociopaths lie and cheat to harm people for their own benefit. They live to enrich themselves to the detriment of others, unable to, or unwilling to, consider the feelings of those around them if it does not provide direct material benefit to themselves.

They need help, but you can't excuse or handwave criticism of them with the claim of ableism, that's giving them the crutch they need to not have to be confronted with the reality of their personality.
considering he is debating nazis (who tried doxing him) where he could easily become an alt right and make bank he is pretty fine. he stated one of the reasons he does this is because a better society helps him (but i think he cares a lot more then he lets on), he comes off as utilitarian. "normal" people do the same stuff as Sociopaths but the difference is they have the empathy to know better, thats scarier imo. kinda off topic here is a Lady explaining her ASPD (before the Shane Dawson thing)

here is a lady with a baby
 
Oct 27, 2017
727
#45
I'll have to give it a listen when I'm not at work, but this topic is pretty ironic for him considering he got permanently banned from this site for defending white people using the n-word privately among a group of friends.
I'm pretty sure he got banned for some weird post about homophobia.
 
Nov 2, 2017
4,154
#46
I'll have to give it a listen when I'm not at work, but this topic is pretty ironic for him considering he got permanently banned from this site for defending white people using the n-word privately among a group of friends.
First thing I remembered when I read his name.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,617
#47
Blah, his whole "it's totally ok to sprout horribly racist/bigoted shit in private" is such a bad take. That normalizes that kind of language use & thoughts just as much as seeing it in public does. Like, if "hurrdurr, Muslims drive into crowds of people" is a go-to joke in private, I can't imagine you not being a bigot/racist. Maybe not an "active Ku Klux Klan member" levels of racist/bigot, but a racist/bigot nevertheless.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,972
#48
He still helds some shit views, but Destiny is legit doing more to stop hate speech and alt right shit than anybody in this thread who is just throwing shit at him.
Yeah, I legit think he is an utter idiot for wanting to say the N word or other slurs, but I'll give him credit where credit is due.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
3,883
#49
Who is Tara Babcock anyway? Apart from a fucking idiot. Is she big on YouTube or Twitch or whatever? Don't feel like Googling her at work, just in case.
I did

Her most viewed video has a thumbnail with feel "free to fap" and her in a low cut top.

I dont reccomend doing this at work.
 
Oct 27, 2017
727
#50
Blah, his whole "it's totally ok to sprout horribly racist/bigoted shit in private" is such a bad take. That normalizes that kind of language use & thoughts just as much as seeing it in public does. Like, if "hurrdurr, Muslims drive into crowds of people" is a go-to joke in private, I can't imagine you not being a bigot/racist. Maybe not an "active Ku Klux Klan member" levels of racist/bigot, but a racist/bigot nevertheless.
I don't think he argued it was ok, more one is a lot worse and he personally is comfortable a person he knows saying x thing than a stranger. Which I get as a brown person, if I know somebody and they make fun of a brown stereotype i wouldn't think nothing of it, however if a stranger did I would be offended.