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Here Is an Great Clip Of Streamer Destiny Explaining how Edgy Jokes & Memes Can have Bad Outcomes & normalizes racism/bigotry
- Thread starter IceFireTerry
- Start date
Just began to watch Destiny's content lately and although it's clear that he might have some controversial views on things, the truth is that he's probably one of the best debaters against the alt right and I believe we need more people doing what he's doing, not less.
Also been consuming alot of Destiny's content and he definitely has some shit I don't agree with but damn hes good at debating and breaking down a fascist/alt right argument.
Yes, makes me wonder about the whole deplatforming/ marketplace of ideas debate because, while I definitely think Nazis should not be given any chance to promote themselves, having them look so helplessly stupid in a debate in front of their own audience is probably the best way to let their shit ideology stop from spreading too far.
I guess I'm totally fine with companies like YouTube and Twitter deplatforming bigots based on their content but also ok with other people debating their ideas on platforms or channels not of their own ad long as the debate is fair.
Btw, I laughed so hard at this debate here
That sounds good in theory, but I think you underestimate how skewed someone's perspective can be if they already agree with their opinions and viewpoints. You see it as the nazis/alt-right "looking helplessly stupid", but the people who agree with them see it as them "owning the libs/SJWs". That's how differently two people can see the exact same interaction based on where they already stand. So the same debates that you see as exposing the far right to their supporters as being clueless, their supporters often see as confirmation that the far right owns the left/moderates with facts and logic. I've had this confirmed time and time again by video comments sections.
Yup, in the debates Trump literally was red in anger and ripped his notes after in frustration and I still saw "Trump DESTROYED her!"
Why are progressives so interested in attacking each other? FFS, you don't have to agree with everything a person does for you to consider them an ally.
Everyone seems to be big Natalie fans but hasn't she made the point in some of her recent vids about liking dark humor and wanting to use it? That probably includes saying shit in private not every progressive is going to agree with. Shock and horror!!
I think what some of you are attacking Destiny for is being honest, and not being a hypocrite. If he didn't let it be known that he may use a word in private, without malicious intent, with someone he knows is of the same mindset, then none of us would be the wiser. At least he's honest about what he believes which I believe is better than most. I would bet money that some that are attacking him for this one thing do the same damn thing in their private lives.
ijs. the shit makes no sense to me how adamant some of us are at attacking people that are CLEARLY on the same fucking team. Dammit man!
Everyone seems to be big Natalie fans but hasn't she made the point in some of her recent vids about liking dark humor and wanting to use it? That probably includes saying shit in private not every progressive is going to agree with. Shock and horror!!
I think what some of you are attacking Destiny for is being honest, and not being a hypocrite. If he didn't let it be known that he may use a word in private, without malicious intent, with someone he knows is of the same mindset, then none of us would be the wiser. At least he's honest about what he believes which I believe is better than most. I would bet money that some that are attacking him for this one thing do the same damn thing in their private lives.
ijs. the shit makes no sense to me how adamant some of us are at attacking people that are CLEARLY on the same fucking team. Dammit man!
That's because Trump knows how to talk like he is right.
A publication a month after the election decided to try a small experiment where an audience would listen to a debate using Trump style argumentation and posturing versus Hillary's style and the audience felt the arguments made with Trump style were better.
They even decided to go all in and use the actual debate material Trump and Hillary used themselves and the effect held.
Trump is an idiot in many ways but he isn't a good conman purely on his wealth. He had better people skills than Hillary which greatly helps with all of his past and current con schemes.
And yet, 3 million more people voted for Hillary than Trump.
Good god this video is hilarious right off the bat
Ethnostate guy on topic of Americans having shared values - "I mean the general values of a society"
Destiny - "give me a general value that you think all americans share"
Ethnostate guy - "God given right to all men created equal"
Me -
I lost my shit at the white supremacist that said "let's get rid of the Spanish and Irish afterwards. I'm ok with that."
Last month I began to realize that white nationalism is a smoke screen because certain members clearly want to subjugate other white people and there is increasingly more evidence of this as I pay more attention to it.
This logic is so destructive and reductive and has no place in human society whatsoever.
Ethnocentrism needs to be treated as an absolute evil instead of a morally grey thinking process.
This IS true, but... and Steven mentions this regularly... with any debate you can assume a roughly 50/50 split in the audience in regard to who they came to watch. 40/50 on each side will not change their opinions at all from the start of the debate to the end. They're there to watch their guy "wreck" the other. But it's the 20% in the middle that can be swayed one way or the other. Steven has said that, putting aside his goal of trying to be "the most right," another goal is to bring as much of that 20% to his line of thinking as he can, and he does that by staying fairly calm (or trying to anyway), refusing to accept non-answers, and pushing not for a specific position but for using more critical thinking as a whole. If that middle 20% can be swayed to broach these topics in a similar way, they're far more likely to agree with his positions on a lot of things.
That's, IMO, the value of him doing these debates.
His last debate with that gun guy (Vincent) was a really good one because his goal wasn't necessarily to provide answers as much as it was to show how Vincent's methodology for arriving at conclusions was flawed at its core.
The ethnostate one posted above was also pretty good.
It was fucking hilarious, especially considering the shit he pulled prior to actually coming on.
Also to see his dick wilt so fucking much after his video lambasting Destiny, only to be all 'Uh...yeah...I clearly can't argue back so I have no option but to agree' is simply beautiful in its inevitability.
The Quartering seems only able to concede every point, so it's too bad Destiny hadn't prepared more arguments / evidence regarding that guy's anti-lgbt content farm.
I was cackling at this so much. Destiny is really good at arguing against these goons
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Maybe I'll try Hasan one day but what I saw from TYT I never enjoyed. Does he also debate alt righters? What I really really dislike about something like the minority report is how it's all just about preaching to the choir and picking on low hanging fruit, just commenting on a video and making fun of the latest GOP shit show. I mean, I guess that is funny sometimes but it gets tiring really soon.
I hope more left wing people up their game and emulate Destiny in this regard. What I would give to see destiny debate Rubin btw lol
He does, but not as often as Destiny. He (often) gets highly triggered by his chat and demands they come on to debate him but they rarely do. He does a lot of watching content (both left and right leaning) and will disseminate why they're right or wrong so if that isn't your thing then he maybe isn't for you but I'd say he's definitely worth a shot.
He's recently started doing some more game streams and honestly, him RPing his way through Papers Please and Wolfenstein is some of the most entertaining streaming I've ever seen. Fucking hilarious.
I'd love to know where Destiny learned his technique from. He's SO good at it you'd think he was like a Harvard grad-level debate champion but from what I know his background isn't like that at all. It's just weird he seems to be one of the few truly capable people at doing it, while other lefties often are far too quick to fall into the alt-right trap and end up looking foolish.
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Yeah, wonder that too. Also, the fact he sometimes is able to play videogames competently while completely engaged in a conversation blows my mind too, lol
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Yeah Hasan is great but he's not that good of a debater
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Destiny does what he wants, when he wants, and for his own benefit. He's not debating anyone for anyone else's benefit but his own
Hes an edge lord asshole because he spoiled GoT/Endgame?
I mean, I'm not saying he isnt, but that's an odd thing to be mad over in a thread about his politics
I don't know, it shows he doesn't give a fuck about anyone else. It's a trait far too many have, and lines up exactly with his political stances
Which political stances does that specifically align with...?
Being utilitarian. He doesn't actually care for minorities etc, he's just going along as it's a net benefit. As soon as he doesn't see it that way I feel he'd happily turn his ire elsewhere
To clarify - By that I mean that he seems, and has stated, that he doesn't seem to have any interest in progressive ideals outside of what will benefit himself or society as a whole (which on the face of it presents no real problem).
However, I feel he mainly does what he does to address bad arguments and a lack of critical thinking underpinned by monetisation of this (again on the face of it not a problem)
My main issue is that he will abandon this as soon as it's not convenient or profitable
Regardless, he is a useful tool at present. Not an ally
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So he spoiled Endgame/GoT because it provides a net benefit to society and he doesn't care about minorities...?
just realized ERA has an ignore thread feature. it's starting to come in handy for these stupid fucking youtuber/influencer discussions.
Sorry, I'm struggling to make my point - he doesn't give a fuck about other people (and he is a provocateur) - his only interest in what may align with progressive ideals is due to it being good for him, and by extension society.
Him being happy to spoil things for other people supports that, he doesn't act out of empathy or kindness, he acts as he deems fit and is unapologetic regarding that.
Why did I open my mouth? I really don't care about this guy
I am still failing to see the connection between spoiling Endgame/GoT and that benefiting society/himself or him not really caring about minorities.
the leaps of logic necessary to get from "he spoiled Game of Thrones and/or Endgame" to "he only does stuff out of self-interest" is truly remarkable.
I'm referencing his banned post here, where he says he don't give a fuck about minorities or progressive ideas. I'm extrapolating that (and his proclivity for being a provocateur) to make a comment regarding his spoiling stuff for people. It ain't that deep
It's not deep because they are so unrelated that it is completely absurd to try and connect the two.
.. is this really centrism or representative of centrism?
On the internet? 100%
That is basically every self-identified "centrist".
When you make bigoted jokes to appease your bigoted base, you are no longer a centrist. You clearly support the conservative ideology even if it is just for financial purposes. In the end, that makes you no better than the bigots because you purposely radicalize, embolden, provide confirmation to bigots, and profit from the targets of the bigots.
By all means disagree. To me it's a clear pattern, but I can certainly agree that the way I've put across my point isn't great.
I don't really feel like giving it another crack
Fascism is like the eye of the storm from Fortnite. There's no rhyme or reason to it, the only constant is that it has you in the middle.
Until of course it doesn't.
He likes to use that as a rhetorical device in framing his arguments, but I'm really not sure it's true. For example, I think the angriest I ever see him get is at comments by racists/bigots, and he will use such terms "racist" as an attack/insult against those people.
Understand that I'm not trying to persuade you to think differently about him, really. That's 100% up to you. I'm just saying I don't actually fully believe his "strict utilitarian" arguments. He may even have fooled himself into believing them, but he doesn't behave like he does. And, sure, maybe a statement like "Fuck [person], they're a racist" is shorthand for "Fuck, [person], their views don't benefit society and thus benefit me," but his emotions, inflections, etc. when he says that stuff doesn't make me think so.
But I do think he's discovered that, for him, framing an argument like "Your position makes society worse, and here's statistics, studies, etc. that demonstrate why" is a stronger position to defend than "Your position is racist, and being racist is bad" in a debate. Pointing out the facts police shootings disproportionately affect PoC is a stronger argument than "You're racist" "No, I'm not."
You can show me a racist quote by someone, and I can mentally write that person off forever, but I don't think that's the case for people he's trying to persuade over to our side.
There is a clear reason. The facists see themselves as Little Finger but that they are smart enough not to lose their place on the ladder.
destiny is BFFs with trainwreckztv aka "you're only playing DPS because you have something to prove [woman]" to think destiny is worth anything is to believe in his bigotry and associating with bigotry.