Here's why Gina Rodriguez is currently receiving criticism from the black community for her actions/statements concerning black issues

[mikeys_legendary]

Hmm. It seems like she's doing what a lot of Americans do when they say Latino. And by that I mean ignoring the Afro-Latinos (and often times white ones) and referring to what the majority of Mexican/Central Americans look like.

Side note: I never understood "Latinx." As someone who is of Latin descent I've always known Latino to refer to all of us. It's gender neutral. I hope I'm not coming off as some kind of arrogant jerk but...it seems like kind of an Anglicized (am I using the right word? Lol.) adaption of the word.

Edit: Read previous posts. So I guess if we're going to change it, can it at least be something that rolls off the tongue in Espanol? Latinu perhaps?

 

[brainchild]

Right but there's criticism to be had about language that erases a group of women once one man joins.


This is a problem not only in Spanish but in French too.

A group of Women: Elles
A group of men?: Ils

Add a woman to a group of men: Ils
Add a man to a group of women: Ils

In all cases the pronoun is determined by the presence or lack of presence of men.


Masculine as default is inherent exclusionary and patriarchal. This isn't American imperialism to point that out. It's just fact.

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Thanks for this. Threadmarked.

 

[brainchild]

So I guess if we're going to change it, can it at least be something that rolls off the tongue in Espanol? Latinu perhaps?

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Language is fluid. The word doesn't have to be 'Latinx', but the grammar of the language as it stands does need to be addressed in socially progressive countries.

 

[Anacaona]

Well, I learned a new word. Legit had never heard the word “latinx” before. Is it widely used?

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No, it's really awkward. In fact, that word should be banned.

It's just a stupid, American word. Don't use it please.

Use Latino/as, instead.

 

[excelsiorlef]

My entire argument is that the word Latino already encapsulates everyone regardless of gender but oh well. I’m not going to make a difference by posting here anymore.

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That's not true though. Like it literally is a masculine word, again it functions exactly the same way Masculine and Feminine pronouns function in French.

Latino is a man, il is a man
Add a another man and you get latinos, add another man and you get ils
Add a woman and you still get latinos, add another woman and you still get ils

Latina is a woman, elle is a woman
Add another woman and you get latinas, add another woman and you get elles
Add a man and now you get latinos, add a man and now you get ils

And this is before we even address that this is entirely exclusionary of gender non binary folk, none of this language is accommodating to gender neutrality in any way, it's either a masucline noun or a feminine noun with nothing in between.

To argue that Latino is for everyone is not backed in grammatical history or fact. It is inherently a masculine noun.

It'd be like a French person saying Ils is all inclusive.

These are all specifically gendered words

Masculine as default should not be argue as neutral. It's not neutral it's just patriarchal.

 

[Airbar]

No, it's really awkward. In fact, that word should be banned.

It's just a stupid, American word. Don't use it please.

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It sounds so stupid. Especially if you consider that you could just as easily use Latin American or you could shorten it to LAP as in Latin American Person. This weird fixation of inserting the letter X into anything in progressive circles is irritating.

 

[Bradbury]

I can't help but feel like "Latinx" is an example of American cultural imperialism, with American English speaking people thinking they know a better way to refer to Latin people than they themselves do.

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I dont know about spanish speaking country. But in Brazil the x is a very real thing to go against masculine pronoums as the default

 

[excelsiorlef]

No, it's really awkward. In fact, that word should be banned.

It's just a stupid, American word. Don't use it please.

Use Latino/as, instead.

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So you see no value in gender neutrality and language that isn't determine solely by the presence or lack of presence of a man?

LOL @ Banned though.

 

[Stardestroyer]

It sounds so stupid. Especially if you consider that you could just as easily use Latin American or you could shorten it to LAP as in Latin American Person. This weird fixation of inserting the letter X into anything in progressive circles is irritating.

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What is more irritating is how people like you are reacting like this s horrible thing. I find it more ridiculous how you would rather use a longer version when a latinx is just as good and convey it faster.

Guess what, language constantly changes and that's life.

 

[brainchild]

Alright, I feel like I've been gracious enough to those who have expressed concern over the usage of the word 'Latinx'. I kindly ask those interested in continuing the discussion to start another thread. Please.

I will no longer be responding to any more comments on the subject and will contact a moderator if this thread continues to veer off-topic. Thank you.

 

[Baphomet]

Most Latino people are not going to use the word since it makes no sense to use in Spanish.

 

[Anacaona]

Edited because of treadmark.

 

[excelsiorlef]

'X' is pronounce as 'ch' by most people. It's an stupid word that makes no sense. We already use 'o' for gender neutral.

Xoxo sounds like chocho. Sometimes it's even pronounce as something between c and x. It's just awkward and stupid.

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I'm not even arguing it has to be latinx.

That's not up to me, but you said ban the word and use Larino/Latina which is right back to gender binary and non neutral . Latino is not gender neutral, it's masculine dominant, the same way Ils is not gender neutral it's masculine dominant.

Alright, I feel like I've been gracious enough to those who have expressed concern over the usage of the word 'Latinx'. I kindly ask those interested in continuing the discussion to start another thread. Please.

I will no longer be responding to any more comments on the subject and will contact a moderator if this thread continues to veer off-topic. Thank you.

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Shit sorry.

 

[petitmelon]

Edit: sorry!! Just saw the threadmark! Deleted remarks about it

Regarding the original topic, it's something I struggle with my social group. A lot of them see afrolatinos as black and refuse to see them as Latino. I've gotten into many an argument about it, but basically it boils down to "Latino=people who look like me" and not "Latino=people who share a cultural heritage". It's ignorant, but I'm willing to bet a large spectrum of people believe the same.

 

[Budi]

Thanks for the thread, I have heard about controversy around her before but hadn't really looked into it. For the interview she made with Shahidi, yeah I understand the sentiment that she absolutely can be and is a role model to all kind of women (hell, men too). But of course the fact that black women are very under represented shouldn't be overlooked/dismissed either and it definitely means even more to black girls/women who get to relate on more levels. I'm not sure if that was the intention of Rodriquez, or rather the former.

Terry Crews came to her defense, based on his personal experiences with her. He backed down after getting schooled that it's not for him to chime in. From what I now know, I do feel kinda bad for her because of the backlash (no doubt very harsh in some instances too, because of social media). I'm not well equipped enough to really comment on this issue, but I feel she is probably rather clumsy with her words than malicious.

Also this reminded me of the Life is Strange season 2 reveal thread here, game with two hispanic male leads. The thread had to be rebooted with words from the mod team "This thread should not be used to pit equality movements against each other.". Which is always great advice.

Edit: As someone from Finland, people calling her white seems very odd though. But that's probably because Finland is very white in comparison to the much more diverse demographics in the US in example.

 

[Royalan]

That's not true though. Like it literally is a masculine word, again it functions exactly the same way Masculine and Feminine pronouns function in French.

Latino is a man, il is a man
Add a another man and you get latinos, add another man and you get ils
Add a woman and you still get latinos, add another woman and you still get ils

Latina is a woman, elle is a woman
Add another woman and you get latinas, add another woman and you get elles
Add a man and now you get latinos, add a man and now you get ils

And this is before we even address that this is entirely exclusionary of gender non binary folk, none of this language is accommodating to gender neutrality in any way, it's either a masucline noun or a feminine noun with nothing in between.

To argue that Latino is for everyone is not backed in grammatical history or fact. It is inherently a masculine noun.

It'd be like a French person saying Ils is all inclusive.

These are all specifically gendered words

Masculine as default should not be argue as neutral. It's not neutral it's just patriarchal.

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Yeah, attempting to make a quick English comparison. Is it similar to how it's socially normal and common to hear a female get the attention of a group of women by saying "hey guys," but you would almost never hear men use "hey girls" to get the attention of other men (unless it's being used ironically among a group of queer men).

 

[jett]

I've legit never heard a Latino use the work Latinx to identitfy themselves and i'm around them all the time. It actually caught me off guard when I first started seeing used online.

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This isn't a thing that exists in actual Latin America.

 

[The Watcher]

There are two separate discussions:
1. Gina Rodriguez saying dumb ignorant shit
2. Latinos being massively underrepresented in movies, see e.g. this examination

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True. She could have voice her concerns without stepping on the achievements of black entertainers and media.

 

[Zoe]

Edit: As someone from Finland, people calling her white seems very odd though. But that's probably because Finland is very white in comparison to the much more diverse demographics in the US in example.

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She wouldn't be called white in the majority of the US either.

 

[Elegant Weapon]

There’s probably only two page of posts talking about Gina Rodriguez specifically(the subject of the thread) if a mod seperated was his Latinx discussion into its own post.

 

[AuthenticM]

Thank you for making this thread, TC. It's been very informative.

 

[The_hypocrite]

Wow, peeps surely have a lot of time for Twitter drama. I was expecting something egregious but there's nothing but tame issues in the OP. As a Latin individual myself I think the reason why the afro American part of our heritage gets consciously and uncounciously suppressed is because historically we are identified as a blend of multiple biological and cultural heritages. That blend, in the way instruction was imparted in my early days, was our identity, "the mulattos". Most don't dwell on the fact of our African roots, they don't acknowledge it and others outright try to deny it. Others mockingly call themselves "realengos" which can translate to those dogs that have multiple breeds removing individual dominant traits or mutts (?).

 

[The_hypocrite]

I've legit never heard a Latino use the work Latinx to identitfy themselves and i'm around them all the time. It actually caught me off guard when I first started seeing used online.

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It's disgraceful actually. Trying to turn an identity into a soundbite to be cool.

 

[Royalan]

It's disgraceful actually. Trying to turn an identity into a soundbite to be cool.

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Can you explain this? Because the people I hear using the term are real people, who actually identify as queer/non-
binary.

 

[excelsiorlef]

It's disgraceful actually. Trying to turn an identity into a soundbite to be cool.

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This is so insulting.

People aren't trying to argue for gender non binary inclusive and masculine non dominant language to be "cool"

 

[kittens]

Mostly among activists. People don't use it commonly in real life.

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This is a weird statement. As if activists aren't real people living in real life? Regardless, many of my friends and I use it, but I don't think very many of us identify as activists. We're just people who like to be intentional with our words.

 

[sphagnum]

This is a weird statement. As if activists aren't real people living in real life? Regardless, many of my friends and I use it, but I don't think very many of us identify as activists. We're just people who like to be intentional with our words.

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Edit: threadmark

 

[kittens]

Edit: threadmark

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Aw okay, I missed that threadmark, thanks.

 

[Spinluck]

It isn't surprising that white Latinos think they're the victims.

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I have a question about this and it's insanely ignorant because I am starting to notice it a lot along with the victim part of your post (which is definitely accurate for the record). But are people of Gina's complexion and tone considered white latino people? Because there is Gina, then there are dudes like Tony Romo and Louie CK that look like white dudes. Gina herself is Puerto Rican and basically says that her Taino background along with some Afro roots makes her kind of black? Not denying that about her... But... here she is saying this shit. Also, I have seen many white Latinos be just as racists if not more openly racists than a lot of white people. It is really baffling to me because I at one point thought we were all sort of on the same team...

 

[Deleted member 11413]

I do not understand people calling her white. There is no way she benefits from white priviledge in the same way a white woman would.

 

[Eatin' Olives]

I do not understand people calling her white. There is no way she benefits from white priviledge in the same way a white woman would.

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I'm gonna go on a limb and say it's shorthand. I can't imagine anyone being ignorant enough to call her straight up "white" with no distinction between her and Caucasian Anglo-Americans.

 

[Deleted member 11413]

I'm gonna go on a limb and say it's shorthand. I can't imagine anyone being ignorant enough to call her straight up "white" with no distinction between her and Caucasian Anglo-Americans.

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Ok, but that seems kind of dismissive. Like constantly harping on someone who is biracial despite them having black features and being treated as 'black' by society.

 

[Tbm24]

She wouldn't be called white in the majority of the US either.

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She’s not white period, anyone saying so is blatantly being a racist in this thread and it’s honestly pissing me off. I even saw someone say she just tans to explain her complexion.

 

[Big-E]

A few people mentioned Rosario Dawson. Why is she being dismissed from the photo? I felt like I have seen her talk about being black before.

 

[Zoe]

I think part of the problem is there's no PC word in popular, common use for Mestizo Latinos. When people in the US say "Latino" or "Hispanic", they're almost always referring to brown people who (in their eyes) look like they came from Mexico.

 

[Metallix87]

I have a question about this and it's insanely ignorant because I am starting to notice it a lot along with the victim part of your post (which is definitely accurate for the record). But are people of Gina's complexion and tone considered white latino people? Because there is Gina, then there are dudes like Tony Romo and Louie CK that look like white dudes. Gina herself is Puerto Rican and basically says that her Taino background along with some Afro roots makes her kind of black? Not denying that about her... But... here she is saying this shit. Also, I have seen many white Latinos be just as racists if not more openly racists than a lot of white people. It is really baffling to me because I at one point thought we were all sort of on the same team...

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It's all subjective. I'm a lighter-skinned Latino, my girlfriend is very clearly an Afro-Latina. It largely hasn't been an issue for us with either of our families. That being said, I have seen outright racism from other members of the family with regards to darker-skinned Latinos from specific countries. So it really varies from person to person. I can't say with certainty whether or not Gina has Afro or even Taino roots. It's very likely, given that she's from the Caribbean, but I'm unsure. That said, I also can't say with certainty how she and her family view themselves and Latinos of both lighter and darker complexions.

 

[Spinluck]

It's all subjective. I'm a lighter-skinned Latino, my girlfriend is very clearly an Afro-Latina. It largely hasn't been an issue for us with either of our families. That being said, I have seen outright racism from other members of the family with regards to darker-skinned Latinos from specific countries. So it really varies from person to person. I can't say with certainty whether or not Gina has Afro or even Taino roots. It's very likely, given that she's from the Caribbean, but I'm unsure. That said, I also can't say with certainty how she and her family view themselves and Latinos of both lighter and darker complexions.

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I am Haitian, and the amount of bullshit that I see Dominicans take is absurd. Not to mention the amount of self-hate they have over dark skin there, it's sad.

 

[Eatin' Olives]

Ok, but that seems kind of dismissive. Like constantly harping on someone who is biracial despite them having black features and being treated as 'black' by society.

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Not meant to be dismissive, I'm a pale Mexican and I certainly sympathize with what you're referring to lol.

 

[Deleted member 11413]

Not meant to be dismissive, I'm a pale Mexican and I certainly sympathize with what you're referring to lol.

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Yeah that wasn't directed at you specifically, clearly you understand what I'm saying.

 

[brainchild]

A few people mentioned Rosario Dawson. Why is she being dismissed from the photo? I felt like I have seen her talk about being black before.

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Rosario Dawson isn't being dismissed, but Rosario Dawson doesn't represent the darkest shade of Afro-Latinx people either.

Colorism is a real problem in many countries; it's not just an issue of race or ethnicity, but LITERALLY the color of one's skin that is stigmatized, where the darker the skin tone, the worse the quality. What people were complaining about in that picture was the lack of darker skin complexions, and the lack of coarser/curlier hair patterns, which is also stigmatized, and it's why we have young, little black girls' moms putting harmful chemicals in their hair just so it can meet the minimum standard of beauty in our country, which is very, very unfortunate.

We need better representation of DARK-SKINNED people in highly respected and reputable positions. We need people (especially girls and women) of African descent to feel comfortable enough to wear their natural hair patterns in respected and reputable positions. These people are routinely discriminated against and ignored in many industries and we shouldn't be expected to be fully happy with black representation if that representation doesn't include these people.

 

[TheSkullPrince]

My post from the other, related thread:

Colorism absolutely exists in Latin American cultures and we should do everything we can to give voices and platforms to those who are more negatively affected (Afro-Latinos).

And shame on Gina Rodriguez for trying to brush the issue off. I understand, as bronze-skinned Latinos we are underrepresented in American media, but that doesn't mean we should hold anyone back either; especially for someone in her position who has the power to give, in this case, Afro-Latinas some representation.

I however, do have on qualm though that made me a little uneasy. The thread were Miles Morales' race/ethnicity became a big deal. If I remember correctly, the OP was asking for fair representation for Latinos/Hispanics, but why were people saying "fight your own damn battles!". It really came off as this "fuck you got mine" type of thing. Shouldn't we all be trying to help each other out?

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[JaseC64]

A Latin person being ignorant and slightly racist maybe? Shocked!

Ps: just say Latin. Like no one is gonna think ancient Rome. I mean Latin America is around...people from Latin decent etc.

 

[Grifter]

It’s not. Latinx became a thing because it has currency in some Latinx circles.

Some people are allergic to it in the same way some people are allergic to the term ‘cis’. Or to criticism of blackface in countries besides the United States.

As a native Spanish speaker, I can say Spanish is no less baggaged than English, and there’s no reason it shouldn’t be just as fluid. Latinx acknowledges that the act of defaulting to masculine pronouns falls short for a lot of people; non-binary people, especially.



You’re doing the same shit people do when their favorite blackface festival is criticized. “We don’t view that as racist here. That’s an American thing.”

In one way, though, it’s actually worse. In this case, people are simply using language that’s been accepted as more inclusive in a variety of circles; no one has actually criticized the continued widespread usage of Latino, as far as I can tell, so the pushback here is especially unnecessary.

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Such a good reply. Will help when I need to articulate the value of inclusive language that it can have that initial "why (should I bother)" factor.

 

[DetectiveKenobi]

I get Gina Rodriguez standpoint. Like those are some of my concerns too. I want a hispanic/latino superhero (Miles Morales not withstanding)on the big screen. And I know people say AoS but nobody watches that. Still I dont think we shouldn't prop up other minority films. 2018 was a great year for minority filmaking Black Panther, Blackkklansman, Crazy rich Asians, Roma and I'm sure many more I'm missing. While our reprensentation is missing in the big screen superhero sector were getting more and more representation too. We had a Latinx actor in a Star Wars movie! Were getting there. Slowly but surely.

 

[The_hypocrite]

Can you explain this? Because the people I hear using the term are real people, who actually identify as queer/non-
binary.

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So now everyone is queer/non-binary? I don't really understand your post. Are you only referring to them when you use the term then? It's Latinos. A non gendered word regardless of what your limited knowledge of Spanish may lead you to believe.

This is so insulting.

People aren't trying to argue for gender non binary inclusive and masculine non dominant language to be "cool"

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The word is non-gendered. Also, please stop trying to impose your branding on my heritage. It's like you are oblivious to the hypocrisy of arguing against the perceived dominance of a term by imposing other to the people that are supposed to be identified by it.

 

[Cantaim]

I actually remember Gina stirring shit awhile ago. Can't believe she is still doing this, Is it really so hard to not pull black people down when you want to get a platform for yourself?

 

[El Topo]

While our reprensentation is missing in the big screen superhero sector were getting more and more representation too.

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Here is a ten-year look at diversity in movies: http://assets.uscannenberg.org/docs/inequality-in-1100-popular-films.pdf
("Inequality in 1,100 Popular Films: Examining Portrayals of Gender, Race/Ethnicity, LGBT & Disability from 2007 to 2017")

Allow me to quote page 15:

Overall, the findings reveal that no meaningful change has occurred in the percentage of Black/African American, Hispanic/Latino, Asian, or Mixed Race/Other characters during the years studied.

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It's obviously much more complex and things could very well change, e.g. there's Alita this year, but it's really not all that rosy.

 

[DetectiveKenobi]

Here is a ten-year look at diversity in movies: http://assets.uscannenberg.org/docs/inequality-in-1100-popular-films.pdf
("Inequality in 1,100 Popular Films: Examining Portrayals of Gender, Race/Ethnicity, LGBT & Disability from 2007 to 2017")

Allow me to quote page 15:

It's obviously much more complex and things could very well change, e.g. there's Alita this year, but it's really not all that rosy.

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It's better but when compared to before obviously it's NOT that better. There could aways be more repreensation for Latinx and I hope it gets better. Maybe 2018 was an outlier year?

 

[Deleted member 23381]

Here is a ten-year look at diversity in movies: http://assets.uscannenberg.org/docs/inequality-in-1100-popular-films.pdf
("Inequality in 1,100 Popular Films: Examining Portrayals of Gender, Race/Ethnicity, LGBT & Disability from 2007 to 2017")

Allow me to quote page 15:

It's obviously much more complex and things could very well change, e.g. there's Alita this year, but it's really not all that rosy.

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Man these reports that group up East Asians and South Asians into just Asians are always so fucking useless.

 

[Mr. Fantastic]

So now everyone is queer/non-binary? I don't really understand your post. Are you only referring to them when you use the term then? It's Latinos. A non gendered word regardless of what your limited knowledge of Spanish may lead you to believe.


The word is non-gendered. Also, please stop trying to impose your branding on my heritage. It's like you are oblivious to the hypocrisy of arguing against the perceived dominance of a term by imposing other to the people that are supposed to be identified by it.

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bro "latinx" me parece lo mas estupido del mundo pero "latino" definitivamente es un término masculino