I wouldn't say its a cluster fuck, it is however a not finished video game that I happen to like.
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
-
We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Hideaki Itsuno was ready to quit Capcom after DmC
- Thread starter Okabe
- Start date
- Status
Well if complexity of combat is all you want to judge a game on then sure but even then I'm not sure I'd say that's strictly true for DmC specifically
This sounds like at one point, DmC was indeed gonna be the "only" DMC out of capcom. Which I could imagine would be enough to make someone wanna resign, even if you liked some of the DmC elements. Since that prevents you from continuing the story that you left.
Not at all , IMO.
Whether it comes to characterization or gameplay, those dudes are extremely different. And this isn't an admonishment of DmC Dante's character, there just mad different. One guy is some gross dude who lives in a trailer, who's a loner who doesn't even bother to interact with world untill proomted , is kind of needlessly volatile for most of the game
As opposed to nero in 4 who from jump, is a church boy, likes somene so much he's willing to go visit her and bring her gifts and is prompted into action by seeing what he sees to be someone destroying his home, and later by the kidnapping of his girlfriend. Nero from jump already has more nobile motives and is a more goody two shoes character than DmC dante ever was. And this is just 4, you get to 5 and its the same character, out of all the decendants of sparda, he has his goddamn life together. He has a home, he has a girlfriend, he's getting steady work, he has a buisess partner he has an actual friendship with, because it seemed like DmC dante had no goddamn friends whatsoever. In the beginning of the game, his actions are immediately " I want to help people " and he has a far more nobile shounen protagonist vibe about him that DmC dante never had.
Maybe some of ya'll think they simular cus he curses up a storm and flips people off, but he was cursing up a storm in 4, and flipping people off in 4.
The only similarities is the short hair.
I don't think you remember how limited the dialog was before DmC in-terms or cursing. The most he does is say bullshit in DMC4 and flip Dante off. Then another character says shitting at one point. Not exactly cursing up a storm.
Regardless, both characters stand on their own.
DMC5 takes a lot from DmC, and references it in many different ways, but Nero is still Nero. There's more profanity, which is indeed probably taken from DmC, especially one specific moment, but they're still fitting to who the characters already were. You don't see Dante swearing, having orgies or whatever in this game, because that's not who he is. You don't see Vergil shooting pregnant women, that's also not who he is. Nero was already edgy in 4, they just added more swearing.
DmC Dante would never invite what he thought was a starving homeless guy to have dinner with him, and this is probably one of the moments that define DMC5 Nero the most, and that made people really fond of him and understanding of who he really is, which makes it easier to deal with the more edgy bits.
I like DmC Dante too, but that's exactly why I see them as very different characters. Whenever Nico says something that gives even a little sexual flavor to the conversation, Nero acts a bit embarrassed about it. DmC Dante is the guy who says "I like it rough" while smiling at Kat when she simply says "it'll be rough in there".
Their similarities are more in visuals than personality, imo.
DmC Dante would never invite what he thought was a starving homeless guy to have dinner with him, and this is probably one of the moments that define DMC5 Nero the most, and that made people really fond of him and understanding of who he really is, which makes it easier to deal with the more edgy bits.
I like DmC Dante too, but that's exactly why I see them as very different characters. Whenever Nico says something that gives even a little sexual flavor to the conversation, Nero acts a bit embarrassed about it. DmC Dante is the guy who says "I like it rough" while smiling at Kat when she simply says "it'll be rough in there".
Their similarities are more in visuals than personality, imo.
Does Dante even swear in DMC5? I actually really like the contrast between Nero being a sailor and Dante just being cool in other ways. God, the game is just so good on so many levels.
You're misreading/misremembering that third slide. Insert it in its actual context, and it takes on quite a different message. Your idea of it is undermined by the fact that, immediately thereafter, they insert Dante into a shot of Fight Club. The point was to envision Dante in a "western movie" (per Capcom's direction), with the designer, Alessandro Taini, showing the kind of movie he has in mind for that: Dante would be changing not into an homosexual cowboy, but a brutal, ultramasculine underground fighter - and their choice of change is actually in line with the character and the series, but reimagined with different cultural references and aesthetics (Taini, in fact, mentions "old Dante" looking "cool" in the Fight Club insertion). It's a visual gag and a tasteless joke, but it's at the expense of gay men, not Dante (though, ironically, Taini calls Brad Pitt "sexy"). The idea is that both Capcom and the DmC designers wouldn't want that to happen.Yep, remember when they were mocking og Dante for being a gay cowboy, instead of cool edgy hero.
Criticize the slide for its glib but regressive social views, sure, but don't criticize the slide for something it didn't do, supposedly implying Dante is gay. The latter criticism, I'd say, even has a whiff of an anti-queer bias - 'how dare they suggest masculine, virile Dante would be attracted to men!'
Obviously character traits aren't gonna be 1-to-1 but some scenes where it requires Nero to be super edgy give me DmC vibes. It's a much more improved version of that. It doesn't feel forced for the most part.
Nero says "Fuck" and "Fuck you" in a couple of his buster grabs in DMC4.
I can't talk about other magazine.
In the reality I work with (IGN Italy) it whoever reviews a specific game is at leasy very used to the genre and the action games like DMC are treated very in depth, sometimes with several articles to highlight specific aspects of the game.
(also, I despite your way of thinking and i really think it is very offensive)
It always seemed like that was unconfirmed since you can barely make it out.
Yep, I agree, most of the discussions around these games are not related to their quality.
DmC Dante is introduced to the audience banging two strippers in a trailer after getting heavily drunk at a club.
Nero is introduced to the audience killing demons on his way to church so he can watch his girlfriend give a performance and give her a pretty necklace he bought for her. Or in 5, as you said, inviting what he thought was a homeless man in to have dinner with them.
I just can't see how anyone could claim they're the same character. It honestly almost feels like it's an attempt at some kind of gotcha, like "haha! You don't like DmC Dante but you like Nero, but they're the same! You're a hypocrite!". I really struggle to see how someone, assuming they have actually paid attention to the characters and aren't misremembering, could argue they're the same in good faith. And I think it's telling that I haven't seen anyone who is support it at all, beyond maybe "they both say fuck".
What nonsense
If people think a game is bad they think a game is bad, that is their opinion. You just gotta deal with it and like what you like
Starts around 48:40. Mind you I know nothing about this specific case but one of the hosts presents a case of sexual harrasment allegations and calls it out as a conspiracy and collusion. Its very upsetting to hear someone instantly blaming the victims for lying and downplaying it as "unwanted hugs".
Reubens reaction is more cautious but he does say that #metoo can go too far in its accusations.
When did that poster, or any DMC fan here, say anything that would even remotely imply this train of thought? We like our Dante being a stylish, flamboyant, badass.
This is what DMC fans that don't care for DmC want Dante to be:
So fuck off with your disingenuous nonsense.
Nero was super edgy in 4. Nothing he's doing is out of line of how he's presented in 4. Standard, shounen kind of edgy protagonist. Except with a goody two shoes church boy spin on it.
How about this, maybe i'm being a bit to stubborn yeah? Sometimes i'm wrong, not gonna act like my opinion is aboslute. Can you show me a scene in 5 that evokes that feeling from you. Maybe I missed something
If YOU think a game is bad and I think the game is good why yours should be the "dominant thruth"?
Again, what is this nonsense?
No one argued anything as the doniant truth. You asked why two games with the same meta critic score could be treated differently
My response
" because one is good and one is bad " whether you agree or not, is irrelevant. I just answered the question.
Thank you.When did that poster, or any DMC fan here, say anything that would even remotely imply this train of thought? We like our Dante being a stylish, flamboyant, badass.
This is what DMC fans that don't care for DmC want Dante to be:
So fuck off with your disingenuous nonsense.
I'm laughing at the insinuation that og DMC fans thought Dante was some masculine man's man.
Get the fuck out with that rhetoric.
Genuine question: Why aren't you verified as working at IGN Italy, then?
Also, what do you think my way of thinking is? Because I have no clue how you could find anything I posted in that quote "offensive".
You're supposedly a professional reviewer and you don't know how opinions work?
Holy Shit. This is about Vic Mignogna, the Voice Actor of Broly who got basically booted from the industry (link tot he ERA thread) for having a years-long history of harassing minors and woman during conventions. According to one of the hosts of the video, a bunch of "nobodies from Channel Awesome" have been "conspiring" to "get him out of there".
Can we fucking get rid of this video and their channel in this thread? Cause this is disgusting. And then Reuben uses that as a jumping-off point to talk about how #metoo "started off" great and how both MeToo and fucking Black Lives Matter get "hijacked" and "logic goes out the window", then using the Vic Mignogna example that has been talked about before of "just giving a hug" getting misconstrued as sexual harassement. He ends his tangent with victim blaming by saying that he knows Mignogna would leave people alone if they just said "no", so women just really have to learn to stand up for themselves and say no (56:20), also saying that he has a hard time believing these "allegations".
Goes back to the #metoo-Movement and how bad it supposedly have gotten from 57:00 on.
Fuck this entire interview.
Last edited:
Yeah, what I love about Dante (and Viewtiful Joe) is that they're not the typical depiction of masculinity you see in games. They're cool, show off, have a sense of humor, and enjoy doing what they're doing. When Dante gets a sick new weapon, he plays around with it in a cutscene and it's always a treat to see. When Dino from DmC gets a new weapon, he just stares at it for a few seconds and walks off screen.
I have no clue what the intent is by some DmC diehards that try to paint DMC fans as being regressive or something. DmC is one of the most mean-spirited games I've played by a notable developer, and it's full of sexist imagery.
Thread title is misleading, it's never said that Itsuno wanted to quit Capcom because he didn't like DmC, "after" is more as in "some time after DmC was released".
I recall moments in the beginning ("I'm baggin' this bitch!") and at the end ("Fucking asshole!"). But this could be just pure coincidence.
Maybe DMC3 Dante. He rocks out to guitar that was once a naked succubus. But it doesn't matter cuz masculinity shouldn't be tied to anger and strength.
I agree. Screw this channel.
Yeah, you're definitely right about this.
It's just projection. It's not at all unique to DmC fans, hell there's probs plenty of examples of DMC fans doing it to.
It's the standard get accused of something so you twist it around so that it's actually the accusers at fault. It's completely divorced from reality, it's just mental gymnastics with the sole goal of making the person saying it sound right.
The profanity I absolutely see as a DmC influence, but that's one game influencing the other, with the edgy character in 5 swearing more because DmC had a lot of swearing, but as characters they're just way too different.
Another example to complement the others I brought up previously:
The Hunter says: "You are dead, just like your whore mother", to which Dante responds: "Whore mother? I don't know my mother, but if you're calling me a son of a bitch you wouldn't be the first". He's just 100% edge, all the time. If someone offended Kyrie like that, Nero would lose his shit. He would probably swear a lot, which ironically isn't something Dante does in this scene, but he definitely wouldn't be playing it cool.
Nero has a short temper, DmC Dante just swears to piss people off, but he doesn't really care about anything, at least initially, his character development is exactly to get him to care, but even then DmC:DE ends with him grabbing Kat's ass, showing that he's still the same Dante, even if he learned and grew over the course of the game.
They look similar, they both swear, there are direct references to DmC Dante in DMC5, but that's it. The characters themselves are totally different.
And I argued that DMCV gives better context for the swearing and edginess.
While I don't think there's any close to i'm bagging this bitch in DMC4, he does curse when fighting in emotional moments. Like fighting the pope and dante. And when he's fighting someone in 5 and goes " BOTH YOU FUCKING ASSHOLE " that's sort of inline with him getting all emotional while fighting.
It is clearly written in my profile.
You'd be VERY surprised about how many people "out there" have opinions different from the ones you try to pass as absolute thruth.
Again, we are not talking about a shitty game and a very good game here.
We are talking about two good games and yet lots of people tries to depict one as a very bad game "because things". That's wrong.
Without Itsuno's involvement it's pretty clear that DmC would have just been another Heavenly Sword in terms of combat depth and feel so its understandable he's proud of it, but DMC V all his, not something where he had to guide the hands of another team.
I agree, even though I personally was never bothered by the swearing in DmC. I still legitimately think the FUCK YOU scene is really good and funny.
Never compare best Sparda to that douche.
He's a less perverted Yusuke Urameshi if anything.
I understand criticizing DmC for its treatment of female characters, but it's not like DMC4 and now 5 are any better at that. In fact, one could argue they are worse entirely. So it's strange to me you would point that out as if a unique flaw of the reboot.
I asked why you weren't verified. It being written in your profile means very little.
Also, no one is saying DmC being bad is some objective fact you have to accept or anything. Some people just don't think the game is good and that's their opinion. All opinions are equal as long as nothing objectively incorrect is said.
"DmC's combat is too shallow and easy when compared to previous DMC games" is not an objectively incorrect statement and the opinion is valid.
"DmC's version of Dante is an asshole" is not an objectively incorrect statement and the opinion is valid.
"I think DMC fans are wrong in their disdain for DmC because they simply dislike it due to Dante's hair not being white" is an objectively incorrect statement that invalidates the opinion.
The treatment of Lady and Trish in DMC5 is by far my biggest issue with the game but the game at least has Nico, who's a great addition to the franchise. I also don't feel like DMC5 is promoting any kind of particularly harmful views on women. It's just shitty fanservice for weaboos. We still know they can kick demon ass by looking at the previous games. DmC actively made its only two women a damsel in distress who gets her ass grabbed by the protag at the end, and a demon lady who's treated like shit by her partner and is shot in the stomach while pregnant.
So you are basically saying I'm a liar.
Talk about not being "offensive"...
I'm not sure why you're immediately transforming into a raging pugilist over what is a brief comment at the end of a longer and largely unrelated post. You've never interacted with me before. It wasn't even aimed at you. I haven't done anything to merit such animus.
To respond to your argument, though: your line of thought seems to imagine (and rely upon) that this thread/forum is the only place where anyone has ever encountered that precise criticism before. I don't know Castile well enough, nor do I think their remark in and of itself is clearly offensive enough, to accuse or censure them (which is why I didn't, and why I even minimized my remark by using the word "whiff"); but I have encountered people around the internet who were offended by the idea that the DmC designers thought Dante is "gay" (in an obviously derogatory sense of the word). Maybe the "we" you use isn't true of everyone here, there, and elsewhere.
Considering that I've never, to your knowledge, defended DmC or its imagery, it'd appear that you're swinging at air.
I'm not certain you know what "projection" means if you're accusing me of it.
Did I not, just before making the remark that has a few of you so upset, criticize Alessandro Taini, one of DmC's designers, for making what is clearly a tasteless, anti-queer joke?
Seriously, I wish the few of you would perhaps spend a couple more seconds thinking through the entirety of a post you've just read before hitting the reply button.
- Status