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PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,492
Agreed, the pure AAA JRPG are not a thing nowadays (which is not bad, AA budget is more than enough to do a great JRPG IMO) and as I think that the good graphics and big budgets of recent SE games don't make them anywhere near great.

But considering the budgets for modern AAA games, it's easy to understand why the companies only invest in the most popular genres.

I just want some non-Yakuza RPGs that don't feel like they were developed to be played on the Vita and scaled up to the PS4. I'm tired of crappy, worse-than-PS3 graphics and character models. Lacrimosa of Dana would've been way better if it didn't feel like a portable game through and through.
 

Sammy Samusu

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,746
Beyonce's Womb
this iconic moment tho

5EseHpn.gif
Let's hope you are joking dear Mazi.
 

RPGamer

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,435
It wasn't in pre-development for very long, though. It just wasn't even being MADE until Square and Nomura were ready to make it. It's not really fair to go "it was in development for 13 years" when it was really only in active development for about five.

I thought it was largely a pretty good game overall with a few flaws that would be fixed in the Final Mix, as is pretty standard for a first-run KH title.



Honestly, the AAA JRPG scene is kinda dead outside of Square right now. Nobody else can compete and nobody else is even trying. Yakuza, as much as I love it, is 100% AA.

AA or AAA doesn't really matter anyway, i spent much more time with Xenoblade 1 and 2 (and Falcom games) than Final Fantasy 15 or even the better Dragon Quest 11. Yakuza has it's own charme with it's smaller scope. And perhaps Atlus and Monolithsoft up their game a bit when their series grow. Really interested how Atlus Fantasy RPG will look in the end.


lol, it's funny how they missed the whole point of that scene

Yeah it was a really boring teaser, badly animated running animations in a boring world. I feel a little bad for Hideo Baba, he got too much shit for Tales of series and now this.... But he didn't show anything that will be missed to be honest.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,492
AA or AAA doesn't really matter anyway, i spent much more time with Xenoblade 1 and 2 than Final Fantasy 15 or even the better Dragon Quest 11. Yakuza has it's own charme with it's smaller scope. And perhaps Atlus and Monolithsoft up their game a bit when their series grow. Really interested how Atlus Fantasy RPG will look in the end.

I burned out so hard on Xenoblade X and Xenoblade 2. It's just too anime and the combat system never appealed to me in the first place so putting up with combat I wasn't a fan of and clunky, awful writing and bad character designs just wore me down.

I don't have much faith in Atlus unless they have a completely different set of writers and creatives working on the fantasy game compared to the people who write Persona.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,492
Wow that was quick
I wonder if he will join another studio/company after this.

I give him about two months before he links up with some company making mobile gacha games. There's really nobody left in the industry making JRPGs aside from Square and Namco (both of which he quit) and Falcom, and I don't think Falcom has any use for him.
 

Deleted member 2793

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,368
I give him about two months before he links up with some company making mobile gacha games. There's really nobody left in the industry making JRPGs aside from Square and Namco (both of which he quit) and Falcom, and I don't think Falcom has any use for him.
Cygames is hiring a bunch of people for console RPGs. I think he'll end up there.
 

DangerMouse

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,402
Damn, that was quick.

That's disappointing, was really looking forward to what he'd be able to achieve at SE.

Hopefully Studio Istolia and their project survive, though.
Yeah.

Game does not seem to be canceled though.
Yeah I'm glad that at least so far it seems like it's still going, the running animation may have been really early but I quite liked the art style they showed in the teaser.
 

DangerMouse

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,402
I don't have much faith in Atlus unless they have a completely different set of writers and creatives working on the fantasy game compared to the people who write Persona.
Oh well, I've loved Persona 3-5 from this team.

I just want some non-Yakuza RPGs that don't feel like they were developed to be played on the Vita and scaled up to the PS4. I'm tired of crappy, worse-than-PS3 graphics and character models. Lacrimosa of Dana would've been way better if it didn't feel like a portable game through and through.
I completely agree with this though. We need more of these.

It makes me wonder what's going on with Studio Istolia and SE in general right now that a new head of another new studio under them seemingly quit or left shortly after assuming the role.
yeah. Two in a row really pretty close together.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,492
Oh well, I've loved Persona 3-5 from this team.

I'm so burned out on high schools and social links. The homophobia/transphobia out of Atlus' Persona Team is also really bothersome to me on a personal level. If they up their writing game, stop relying so heavily on stereotypes and cliches and stop being homophobic I'll be happy about it, but more than anything else I just need a break from anime high school teens. I'm sick of it.
 

Femto0

Banned
Apr 28, 2018
2,591
I'm so burned out on high schools and social links. The homophobia/transphobia out of Atlus' Persona Team is also really bothersome to me on a personal level. If they up their writing game, stop relying so heavily on stereotypes and cliches and stop being homophobic I'll be happy about it, but more than anything else I just need a break from anime high school teens. I'm sick of it.
Hashino and the p5 team are making that fantasy game so i don't think you'll like it
 

Tohsaka

Member
Nov 17, 2017
6,791
Damn, wonder what happened there. Was hoping he'd end up making something decent, at least.
 

TheGreatLugia

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,078
I'm wondering now if Tabata and Baba's departures could have any possible relation to the current Square-Enix resturctures, even if neither of their studios were classified under Business Divisions.

EDIT: Actually I'm not sure if Baba's full message has been posted in this thread yet (source):
"Accompanying the change in Studio Istolia's management policies, I have resigned as the company's president as of the end of December 2018, and resigned from Square Enix as of the end of March 2019," Baba said in a press release. "Thank you again to Square Enix Group for giving me a variety of experience. I will continue to support everyone from behind the scenes, and I sincerly hope for the further growth of Square Enix Group."
 
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RPGamer

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,435
I burned out so hard on Xenoblade X and Xenoblade 2. It's just too anime and the combat system never appealed to me in the first place so putting up with combat I wasn't a fan of and clunky, awful writing and bad character designs just wore me down.

I don't have much faith in Atlus unless they have a completely different set of writers and creatives working on the fantasy game compared to the people who write Persona.

That's a matter of taste, and i prefer the world of Xenoblade 1, but at least they make games that are finished and imo there aren't JRPGs that are perfect, FF 15 had its storyproblems and bad written characters too (sadly). Well the director of the Atlus Fantasy game is the Persona 5 guy i think, but there will be more people working on the game and perhaps they want it to be more serious, we'll have to wait and see.

isn't that an anime trope? like running in the openings and stop with the crew to see the scenery?

Made popular by famous mangaka Caspar David Friedrich
 

Tibarn

Member
Oct 31, 2017
13,370
Barcelona
Lacrimosa of Dana would've been way better if it didn't feel like a portable game through and through.
IMO the biggest problem of Ys VIII is that the areas are divided and have lots of short loading times.

It's a Falcom game and looks like a Falcom game, and I think that the story should be shorter because I like a faster pace in my action games.

Even so, I prefer what Falcom does (great action combat for the Ys game and extensive lore/characters/interconnected plot in Kiseki games) far more than anything SE has created during the last 2 generations.

If we need to compromise something, graphics are the first thing I think it's OK to compromise in a JRPG, even music is more important to me.
 

Deleted member 5535

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,656
Y'all keep saying this but it's a little more complicated.

I guarantee you that despite being "external" Baba was still answering to someone at SQEX. If they own it they have power over it. Source: I work for an "independent" company owned by another one. Their CEO is our CEO. Very often arrangements like these mean back offices are shared or some other resource besides money is held in common.

If dude left a studio made for him the pressure was probably coming from above. Or the dissatisfaction or whatever. This is still squarely under Square Enix's auspices.

Dude, I know that. I'm just saying that it's external and not a Business Division. Aside from this, Studio Stolia was his company. Of course they still respond to SE, but he was the head of it and much like Bioware, Monolith or Naughty Dog, there's a management on a separate company as it's not an internal division, so yes, it's more on the leadership of the studio than the company who owns the other company.

Sony should fund a AAA rpg for this dude or Microsoft, even Nintendo.

He did damn well with vesperia and that's the last tales games that felt like it had a good sized budget.


Square can't get their shit together, is what's happening. From FF7 and CC2, to FFXV and dlc, now Baba. Feels like they don't know how to deal with people and have a semi timely dev cycle.

Except with any other project of them which is launched every year, you know, like Dragon Quest 11, Dragon Quest Builders 2, Nier Automata, Octopath Traveler and a sizeable quantity of releases in the last 5 years. But those don't count because they aren't Final Fantasy or seemed as AAA.
 

Deleted member 5535

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,656
Well I didn't play the game (couldn't care less about it, especially after lots of reviews that I've watched/read) but I think that we should count the total development time (pre-production bla bla). It took too long IMO.

Developed by Platinum, who are known for fast development times.

This I agree, it's a game meant to fail from the start. Unless they re-think the combat system and offer a polished and interesting Turn-based combat (something more like octopath and less like DQ XI) I can see lots of old fans being unhappy even if the game is finally good (which I doubt).

I don't know how exactly is the management NOW at SE, but their last AAA JRPGS were not that great and took a lot of time to develop, so I have reasons to not be optimistic at all.

Dragon Quest 11, Dragon Quest Builders and Dragon Quest Builders 2 were all developed in less than 3-4 years, for example. Do a little look in their output and you'll see many other examples.
 

Tibarn

Member
Oct 31, 2017
13,370
Barcelona
Dragon Quest 11, Dragon Quest Builders and Dragon Quest Builders 2 were all developed in less than 3-4 years, for example. Do a little look in their output and you'll see many other examples.
Well I don't know if the builder games are AAA games (they look more AA to me), and while DQ XI has the graphics of an AAA game, everything else is basically copy-pasted from older games, there's nothing that indicates that the development team has been working at evolving the basic formula. I found the game pretty average aside from the graphics, and more boring than anything else.

My whole point is that IMO they haven't released a great big JRPG in years (didn't play KH IIII though) and considering some of their latest missteps (FF XV and the development of VII Remake are two examples of bad project management or simply bad luck) I do think that something is (or was) wrong with how the company works on their most ambitious projects. Octopath even with all the flaws was far more interesting and fun than FF XV, and was developed with a fraction of the time and money.

A few years ago SE (or Squaresoft) was a synonim of good, big and ambitious JRPGs, but now at least for me it's more a "ignore or wait for a deep sale" label on the games sadly.
 

Deleted member 721

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,416
That's a matter of taste, and i prefer the world of Xenoblade 1, but at least they make games that are finished and imo there aren't JRPGs that are perfect, FF 15 had its storyproblems and bad written characters too (sadly). Well the director of the Atlus Fantasy game is the Persona 5 guy i think, but there will be more people working on the game and perhaps they want it to be more serious, we'll have to wait and see.



Made popular by famous mangaka Caspar David Friedrich
i think i've heard of him made sucess in the yaoi genre, very romantic
 

Tyaren

Character Artist
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
24,713
this iconic moment tho

5EseHpn.gif
I love this shot because it's like they wanted people to be hyped about a few mountains with nothing on them besides grass lol

This honestly looks really generic and unfinished, and I don't get what's so exciting about it either. Wonky animations, run-of-the-mill JRPG character design (that must be same character designer of The Last Story) and some low detail mountains in the distance that are clearly just background and that you can't explore.
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
This honestly looks really generic and unfinished, and I don't get what's so exciting about it either. Wonky animations, run-of-the-mill JRPG character design (that must be same character designer of The Last Story) and some low detail mountains in the distance that are clearly just background and that you can't explore.
they definitely could have put more work into it. especially since it's also supposed to serve as a hiring ad
 

Sumio Mondo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,914
United Kingdom
I'm so burned out on high schools and social links. The homophobia/transphobia out of Atlus' Persona Team is also really bothersome to me on a personal level. If they up their writing game, stop relying so heavily on stereotypes and cliches and stop being homophobic I'll be happy about it, but more than anything else I just need a break from anime high school teens. I'm sick of it.

SMT5 for Switch?
 
Oct 30, 2017
9,200
What the hell?

I'm so shocked by this news :\

What is happening with baba ??!

I hope project Rune is still happening ....
 

ReginaldXIV

Member
Nov 4, 2017
7,780
Minnesota
I feel like I'm in the minority when I say I enjoyed KH3, FFXV, DQXI, and the DQ Builder games. They're all well made games, and I was satisfied playing all of them. But I also like 2/3 of the FFXIII trilogy (XIII-2 and Lightning Returns) so I guess take that with a grain of salt.

Everything that SE has been doing the last 6 months feels like an internal restructuring to reduce wasteful spending on projects. With the long pre-production dramas on Versus/XV and KH3, the extreme failure of FFXIV 1.0, Dissidia NT not making a dent, and all the mobile games that haven't really broken through in any meaningful way (though I think that Dissidia mobile game is doing well?) SE has been hit pretty hard this and last generation despite having a lot of successes.

Wonder how much is riding on the next mainline FF game, FF7R, and whatever that Marvel's Avengers game will be?
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,492
I feel like I'm in the minority when I say I enjoyed KH3, FFXV, DQXI, and the DQ Builder games. They're all well made games, and I was satisfied playing all of them. But I also like 2/3 of the FFXIII trilogy (XIII-2 and Lightning Returns) so I guess take that with a grain of salt.

Everything that SE has been doing the last 6 months feels like an internal restructuring to reduce wasteful spending on projects. With the long pre-production dramas on Versus/XV and KH3, the extreme failure of FFXIV 1.0, Dissidia NT not making a dent, and all the mobile games that haven't really broken through in any meaningful way (though I think that Dissidia mobile game is doing well?) SE has been hit pretty hard this and last generation despite having a lot of successes.

Wonder how much is riding on the next mainline FF game, FF7R, and whatever that Marvel's Avengers game will be?

Brave Exvius made them a lot of money for a long time. I believe it still is, though it's been dropping off lately as it approaches its fourth year.
 

Kasumin

Member
Nov 19, 2017
1,929
I see people theorizing that Baba was pushed out like Tabata, and it's like... Really? Tabata had something to show for his time at Square. Not even close for Baba.

He was not a great producer for the Tales series. Let's dispel one myth: he was NOT producer on Vesperia! He was brand manager at the time.

His tenure as producer is marked by Graces Wii being a glitchy mess on the Wii. Then Xillia being unfinished. Followed by the half-assed Xillia 2. And ending with Zestiria, which was a mess on its own. Even if you want to dismiss the fan backlash in Japan as waifu wars, there was some weird things going on with the voice actress Komatsu and the story around her character (not blaming her, and it was ridiculous that she was told to apologize to fans). Oh, and Hearts on DS was fine except for the inexplicable decision to have two versions with CG and anime style cutscenes, the former of which went straight to the bargain bin in Japan.

Based on all this, I don't think Baba was a good producer. Two of my examples could be considered flukes, but overall there's a pattern of bad decisions that weren't there for earlier in the series.

Baba is a hack, and I'm pretty sure he was behind the new scenario writer for Xillia 2 and on who had this creepy obsession with grim dark plots and fetuses and harming children as major plot points. It's really unfortunate that he was producer for not one, but two major series anniversaries.

Baba isn't some poor developer down on his luck. His fuck ups seem to be his own.
He doesn't deserve our pity or people acting like he's some great loss for the industry.

I'll give him credit for the Tales series being pushed in the West, though.
 

Arthoneceron

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,024
Minas Gerais, Brazil
Looking at the trailer, it seems a beautiful world with lots of nothingness.

Can't say I'm happy with the departure of Hideo Baba, but he clearly can do better than that.

I give him about two months before he links up with some company making mobile gacha games. There's really nobody left in the industry making JRPGs aside from Square and Namco (both of which he quit) and Falcom, and I don't think Falcom has any use for him.

Neither Monolithsoft or Atlus exists then.