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BobbyRawlins

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,478
game looks boring af, tbh. i have to tony hawk pro skater balance myself while walking up a hill? yeah, that sounds like a blast. sounds like a case of red dead redemption-itis where they injected too much "realism" into the game and it ate all the "fun".
 

Saint-14

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
14,477
game looks boring af, tbh. i have to tony hawk pro skater balance myself while walking up a hill? yeah, that sounds like a blast. sounds like a case of red dead redemption-itis where they injected too much "realism" into the game and it ate all the "fun".
Kojima talked about this, members of his team thought the game will be boring due to the same reasons you listed yet they really liked it after playing the game, what would have been boring in a game like is having traversing being like every other game but thankfully Kojima went a different route, with not much focus on combat just the act of walking from one point to another will keep people engaged.
 

MechaMarmaset

Member
Nov 20, 2017
3,582
game looks boring af, tbh. i have to tony hawk pro skater balance myself while walking up a hill? yeah, that sounds like a blast. sounds like a case of red dead redemption-itis where they injected too much "realism" into the game and it ate all the "fun".

Red dead's problem was slow animations and clunky controls. Kojima games always have snappy animations that put responsiveness over presentation.

This type of stuff can actually be pretty fun. Don't Starve is a blast, but it sounds like a chore on paper. Chop down 100s of trees to make fire wood and cooking pots. Collect materials to feed yourself constantly and maintain your sanity levels. It's just chore after chore after chore, but it's incredibly fun.
 

Deleted member 48434

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 8, 2018
5,230
Sydney
You make deliveries to help connect the world. Gameplay includes balancing your cargo across difficult terrain with gadgets and vehicles, using survival elements to maintain the main character, using stealth and combat against enemies, and slowly building the world with online interactivity.
Hold up, here's where you lost me.
Other people can go suck a lemon, I want nothing to do with them in my single player game.
 

BobbyRawlins

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,478
i cant get with people trying to hype up fucking WALKING from one point to another. i'd never tell a person not to enjoy something, but this game sets a whole new standard for pretentious.

constantly reading people saying "you just dont get it" doesnt do it any favors either.
 

Saint-14

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
14,477
i cant get with people trying to hype up fucking WALKING from one point to another. i'd never tell a person not to enjoy something, but this game sets a whole new standard for pretentious.

constantly reading people saying "you just dont get it" doesnt do it any favors either.
Should have known you're not here with a good intent but just the usual shitty pretentious posts like the others, carry on.
 

BobbyRawlins

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,478
Should have known you're not here with a good intent but just the usual shitty pretentious posts like the others, carry on.

did you only use "pretentious" because i did? i checked the thread to see if the criticisms had been satisfactorily dispelled, but they hadn't and i voiced my opinion on it. dont be mad just because i don't like a thing you like.
 

BMW

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,703
I prefer the walking in Minecraft because the environments are so varied. Death Stranding isn't doing enough and just riding by the Kojima name. Give me a real game Kojima-san (cough, cough like ZOE 2nd Runner).
 

HussiZooT

Beware the Monkey's Paw
Member
Nov 16, 2017
535
I really think Kojima is going to do a bait and switch with us.

I'm not saying that his whole talk of creating a new genre isn't legit (according to him), but there will be a LOT more than just walking from one place to another.

It's going to be like Journey. But made by Hideo Kojima.
 
Jan 10, 2018
6,927
i cant get with people trying to hype up fucking WALKING from one point to another. i'd never tell a person not to enjoy something, but this game sets a whole new standard for pretentious.

constantly reading people saying "you just dont get it" doesnt do it any favors either.

Walking simulator is just a gross simplification of what the game is trying to accomplish. I'm not sure what's so hard with grasping the concept of this game when there's plenty of gameplay that does not show a person just holding the joystick forward.
 
Oct 27, 2017
12,058
I must have imagined the parts where he fought an otherworldly shadow demon, performed a stealth takedown, commandeered a vehicle, etc. It's obvious the game is actually 100% only walking.
 

BMW

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,703
Walking simulator is just a gross simplification of what the game is trying to accomplish. I'm not sure what's so hard with grasping the concept of this game when there's plenty of gameplay that does not show a person just holding the joystick forward.

Why gross?
 

MillionIII

Banned
Sep 11, 2018
6,816
did you only use "pretentious" because i did? i checked the thread to see if the criticisms had been satisfactorily dispelled, but they hadn't and i voiced my opinion on it. dont be mad just because i don't like a thing you like.
What criticism? you insist that you just walk in this game from one point to another but it is just not true.
 

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,623
i cant get with people trying to hype up fucking WALKING from one point to another. i'd never tell a person not to enjoy something, but this game sets a whole new standard for pretentious.

constantly reading people saying "you just dont get it" doesnt do it any favors either.
Sure, if you reduce the traversal gameplay shown to just "walking" as if all you're doing is holding forward for an hour, then yeah I wouldn't get the hype either
 

jaymzi

Member
Jul 22, 2019
6,546
Some people really can't wrap their heads around a big AAA game that doesn't focus on combat.
 

Ænima

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,513
Portugal
Because the therm Walking Simulator is used to downplay games that dont have any kind of gameplay other than walking around gathering clues to unlock story segments, like Firewatch, Gone Home, Gone To Raptor and many other story focused games. And Death Stranding has as much gameplay as the next action game, is just not action focused but thers alot of gameplay mechanics in place just from the traversing part of the game. In top of that thers also segments of shooting action, melee combat, stealth, boss fights, etc in it as well.
 

BobbyRawlins

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,478
sorry i dont like your favorite new thing, i guess? i understand people have different opinions, im not insulting you guys for liking Walking Sim 2019.
ill take my leave of this thread since i "just dont get it"
 

BMW

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,703
Because the therm Walking Simulator is used to downplay games that dont have any kind of gameplay other than walking around gathering clues to unlock story segments, like Firewatch, Gone Home, Gone To Raptor and many other story focused games. And Death Stranding has as much gameplay as the next action game, is just not action focused but thers alot of gameplay mechanics in place just from the traversing part of the game.

Is it downplaying to say that walking simulators are boring for a lot of people? Games aren't cheap - people need to be selective. Just because Kojima made it, it doesn't give the game any more rights to be shielded from criticism.


I imagine they mean gross in the "blatant/glaring" sense, not the "disgusting" definition

Sometimes I think people use the word "gross" wrongly because it makes them feel enlightened. The English language is very vast.
 

Ænima

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,513
Portugal
Is it downplaying to say that walking simulators are boring for a lot of people? Games aren't cheap - people need to be selective. Just because Kojima made it, it doesn't give the game any more rights to be shielded from criticism.
Death Stranding is not a Walking Simulator. You dont have to like what you saw from the gameplay though.
 

oldboss

Member
Nov 9, 2017
1,381
You got to be kidding me. This thread is the very definition of obtuseness. Just close it already.
 

takriel

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,221
If it manages to capture that BotW traversal feeling, color me intrigued!
 

jaymzi

Member
Jul 22, 2019
6,546
Some people are saying walking simulators are boring. But have people actually played a real walking simulator?

Like when you say walking sim, what other games are you referring to?
 

Fonst

Member
Nov 16, 2017
7,068
It is a walking sim with survival features related to walking.

But it isn't completely a walking sim because you have to run away from bad guys and monsters trying to stop you from being to continue walking.
 

Ænima

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,513
Portugal
Some people are saying walking simulators are boring. But have people actually played a real walking simulator?

Like when you say walking sim, what other games are you referring to?
Ppl usually started using the tern to games where the gameplay was pretty much just walking around gathering clues and items to progress trough the story. They are narrative focused games, Like Firewatch, Gone to Rapture, What Remain of Edith Finch. They are all great games.. Ppl just used the term Walking simulator as a way to dismiss a game lack of gameplay.
 

Nameless

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,359
Ignoring the breathe & depth of the traversal systems(that we've seen), there's a Stalker Boss always roaming the world searching for the player, terrorists patrolling, random BT attacks, profound world altering changes upon death, Hades. Like fucking what? Even on paper this game sounds like BOTW + SOTC +Alien Isolation w/some MGS sprinkled on top .

Again, I'll never fault someone for simply not finding this, or any game, appealing, but calling DS a walking sim at this stage is being ignorantly reductive at best, and purposefully misrepresenting the game at worst.
 

Wolf of Yharnam

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,004
People still actively participating in Death Stranding / Kojima threads must be closet masochists

Both sides should just wait until the damn game is out.

Anyways, the review thread will be an absolute shitshow
 

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,623
Is it downplaying to say that walking simulators are boring for a lot of people? Games aren't cheap - people need to be selective. Just because Kojima made it, it doesn't give the game any more rights to be shielded from criticism.




Sometimes I think people use the word "gross" wrongly because it makes them feel enlightened. The English language is very vast.
I don't think anyone's disputing that some find "walking sims" boring

They're disputing the notion that this fits in the same category that people slot "walking sims" into, considering the mechanics and systems that have been shown.

The term is used as reductive contrast between traditional games and stuff like Gone Home and Firewatch: no "real" gameplay, all you do is hold forward between narrative, hence the insulting jab. But the traversal gameplay we've of DS is demonstrably not that, and essentially looks like adapting the management, route planning, and terrain challenges of Spintires and Eurotruck to on-foot rather than driving.

Like putting DS in the same category of Tacoma or Journey is like putting Spintires in the same bucket as Desert Bus because they both feature large maps and driving
 

BMW

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,703
Thers more than enough gameplay videos showing many of the gameplay mechanics. Once again, you and others, dont have to like it or find it fun. I dont find Battle Royale games and Dota games any fun, yet they are 2 of the most popular types of games.

I hate those genres as well. I watched a good amount of videos and didn't see anything

You got to be kidding me. This thread is the very definition of obtuseness. Just close it already.

If you don't like it, just don't participate.
 

jaymzi

Member
Jul 22, 2019
6,546
Ppl usually started using the tern to games where the gameplay was pretty much just walking around gathering clues and items to progress trough the story. They are narrative focused games, Like Firewatch, Gone to Rapture, What Remain of Edith Finch. They are all great games.. Ppl just used the term Walking simulator as a way to dismiss a game lack of gameplay.
Yeah that is what I am referring to. Like how can someone look at Death Stranding and think it is anywhere near similar to games like Firewatch, Edith Finch, Gone Home and so on?

Using walking sim as an insult to a game because it lacks mechanics as all you do in those games is push forward on the stick. But we have seen just how in-depth and the attention to detail the mechanics are in Death Stranding.
Heck maybe too many systems as some are getting worried it might be to a detriment.
 

Rosur

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,502
I'm still expecting all this footage to be fake or just the opening 1hr of the game (like what he did with Metal gear solid 2). Though is the main reason I haven't pre-ordered yet.
 

Cronogear

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,982
I have no idea how this game will turn out. But Kojima's comments like "I'm creating a new genre" and "There will be people who don't get it" really, REALLY sours my opinion of both him and this game.

He's pushing his own failure to show us what's so amazing and revolutionary about what appears to be an open world survival game onto us for 'not understanding'

Fuck off with that.
 

Elodes

Looks to the Moon
Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,234
The Netherlands
Ignoring the breathe & depth of the traversal systems(that we've seen), there's a Stalker Boss always roaming the world searching for the player, terrorists patrolling, random BT attacks, profound world altering changes upon death, Hades. Like fucking what? Even on paper this game sounds like BOTW + SOTC +Alien Isolation w/some MGS sprinkled on top .

Again, I'll never fault someone for simply not finding this, or any game, appealing, but calling DS a walking sim at this stage is being ignorantly reductive at best, and purposefully misrepresenting the game at worst.
I agree with the spirit of your comment, but not with its wording. A game can have all the things you mention, and still feel like it's a walking simulator if you spend >50% of the time just walking, rather than interacting with any of the things that would make it not a walking simulator. When people call Death Stranding a walking simulator, they're obviously not talking about the parts where you don't walk; they're talking about the fact that, no matter what else is in the game, you sure seem to spend a lot of time just walking. And that sure sounds boring!

The right argument against that line of thought is not "there are also other things in the game." Rather, it's, "The walking itself is extremely engaging, to the extent that it has very little in common with other walking simulators and is better understood as something new."
Talk about all the systems that make the actual walking interesting, and you'll turn the haters. I was one of the (silent) people who felt like Death Stranding seemed impossibly boring, but then I realized that it's just doing what made games like Shadow of the Colossus and Breath of the Wild so much fun -- namely, traversal -- and it's trying to make this as interesting as possible through the use of many, many subsystems. Now my hype is through the roof.
 

Ænima

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,513
Portugal
I hate those genres as well. I watched a good amount of videos and didn't see anything
You already made your opinion about the game. I could post you here a bunch of gifs showing gameplay like gun fighting, mellee combat, boss fights, stealth, riding bike, the treversal mechanics... but im not here to sell u the game.
 

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,623
I have no idea how this game will turn out. But Kojima's comments like "I'm creating a new genre" and "There will be people who don't get it" really, REALLY sours my opinion of both him and this game.

He's pushing his own failure to show us what's so amazing and revolutionary about what appears to be an open world survival game onto us for 'not understanding'

Fuck off with that.
What other genres or games are like this? The only thing that seems remotely similar in terms of planning routes, managing weight and cargo, considering terrain as a puzzle-like obstacle is Spintires, and that's off-road driving rather than on-foot traversal

I agree with the spirit of your comment, but not with its wording. A game can have all the things you mention, and still feel like it's a walking simulator if you spend >50% of the time just walking, rather than interacting with any of the things that would make it not a walking simulator. When people call Death Stranding a walking simulator, they're obviously not talking about the parts where you don't walk; they're talking about the fact that, no matter what else is in the game, you sure seem to spend a lot of time just walking. And that sure sounds boring!

The right argument against that line of thought is not "there are also other things in the game." Rather, it's, "The walking itself is extremely engaging, to the extent that it has very little in common with other walking simulators and is better understood as something new."
Talk about all the systems that make the actual walking interesting, and you'll turn the haters. I was one of the (silent) people who felt like Death Stranding seemed impossibly boring, but then I realized that it's just doing what made games like Shadow of the Colossus and Breath of the Wild so much fun -- namely, traversal -- and it's trying to make this as interesting as possible through the use of many, many subsystems. Now my hype is through the roof.
Considering how many times that has been done in these threads, I doubt it's effective as you think
 
Jan 10, 2018
6,927

Because the walking is tied to a lot of mechanics and complex dynamic systems. For instance: you need to plan your route, decide what to carry with you, balance your weight, tend to your wounds, make your way past environmental obstacles, find friendly outposts, fight enemy threats and also deal with supernatural forces. There are even time altering storms in the game that appear randomly that can throw you into past war scenarios.

The world is also dynamically built around connecting players, making things even more unpredictable and cooperative.

Calling this game a walking simulator paints a misleading picture of a player just holding the joystick in one direction, moving slowly across empty landscapes that pose no challenge to the player. And that's far from what this game seems to try to accomplish. I'm honestly not sure why it's so hard to grasp this when there's now so much material to make use of.
 

Ænima

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,513
Portugal
I have no idea how this game will turn out. But Kojima's comments like "I'm creating a new genre" and "There will be people who don't get it" really, REALLY sours my opinion of both him and this game.

He's pushing his own failure to show us what's so amazing and revolutionary about what appears to be an open world survival game onto us for 'not understanding'

Fuck off with that.
You must have understand his words wrong then. He said ppl at start is confused when starting the game because is not a normal shooter or an action game where you start the game already knowing what to expect. Since his doing something diferent some ppl might get confused, but once they start playing slowly they will start getting the game.

And ppl really should get a little more information before ending a post with "Fuck of with that"
 

jaymzi

Member
Jul 22, 2019
6,546
I've read some of the interview before in another thread, but it seems like it had a slightly different translation.

There's this part about "fun starting at 50%" missing from that thread.


He said "really fun" halfway through.

Which is a good thing. Games should get better and better as the game goes on. Start with fun, then really fun and the best for last.
 

Procheno

Alt Account
Banned
Nov 14, 2018
2,879
Ok, I need someone to explain me this. How do you beat the game?

When people tell me that the goal of the game is to fill out the map, there is no conclusion specifically for the player. In Zelda, you filled out the map to assist in your exploration that was fueled by destroying Ganon. Go find the divine beasts and then face Ganon. There's a very clear goal and a set progression and pacing to the game.

For DS, does you just walk around and deliver stuff until something happens? Or are you filling out the map for a clear objective like above? This is exactly the Sea of Theives and No Man's Sky mentality that people still have trouble with. This is why you get so many "what do you do in this game?" questions. Do you win the game if you delivery 10 packages? If you fill out the map? Does the game even end? What is the goal in this game? In SoT, you explored and do quests until you just got bored and give up. In No Man's Sky you explore and move from planet to planet pretty much until you got bored. In DS, do you just deliver packages and walk around until you get bored?

You make deliveries to help connect the world. Gameplay includes balancing your cargo across difficult terrain with gadgets and vehicles, using survival elements to maintain the main character, using stealth and combat against enemies, and slowly building the world with online interactivity.

This explanation is too vague for me. What is the goal? Fill the map? What if other players already discovered all of America? (I can't remember if their exploration also fills the map on your end) Then what do you do? There has to be some sort of destination to this journey or else you're just wandering around (vs having a journey and being sidetracked.) Without a destination, it leaves the player with a pretty nonexistent pacing and progression to their macro adventure wouldn't it?
 
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