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Slime

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,970
Usually I'm like "OK whatever she's out of politics who cares if she says something dumb," but this is on a whole other level of wtf

"I think Europe needs to get a handle on migration because that is what lit the flame," Clinton said, speaking as part of a series of interviews with senior centrist political figures about the rise of populists, particularly on the right, in Europe and the Americas.

"I admire the very generous and compassionate approaches that were taken particularly by leaders like Angela Merkel, but I think it is fair to say Europe has done its part, and must send a very clear message – 'we are not going to be able to continue provide refuge and support' – because if we don't deal with the migration issue it will continue to roil the body politic."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-curb-immigration-stop-populists-trump-brexit

 
Oct 25, 2017
21,426
Sweden
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-curb-immigration-stop-populists-trump-brexit

when you can't beat them join them

i guess when centrist economic policy fails, rather than push for more progressive policy that would help the proletariat and precariat, the centrists prefer appeasing the fascists:
Hillary Clinton said:
"I think Europe needs to get a handle on migration because that is what lit the flame," Clinton said, speaking as part of a series of interviews with senior centrist political figures about the rise of populists, particularly on the right, in Europe and the Americas.

"I admire the very generous and compassionate approaches that were taken particularly by leaders like Angela Merkel, but I think it is fair to say Europe has done its part, and must send a very clear message – 'we are not going to be able to continue provide refuge and support' – because if we don't deal with the migration issue it will continue to roil the body politic."
millions of people are dying in war, but we in europe clearly can't live up to the declaration of human rights and provide asyulum because we may have to do something as unthinkable as raising taxes. it's better to let these refugees die in the wars we started, or let them live in the orders-of-magnitude more poor neighbouring countries

to prevent the fascists from winning elections, the non-fascists have to implement their agenda instead
Clinton urged forces opposed to rightwing populism in Europe and the US not to neglect the concerns about race and identity issues that she says were behind her losing key votes in 2016. She accused Trump of exploiting the issue in the election contest – and in office.

"The use of immigrants as a political device and as a symbol of government gone wrong, of attacks on one's heritage, one's identity, one's national unity has been very much exploited by the current administration here," she said.

"There are solutions to migration that do not require clamping down on the press, on your political opponents and trying to suborn the judiciary, or seeking financial and political help from Russia to support your political parties and movements."
war criminal Tony Blair agrees with her:
"You've got to deal with the legitimate grievances and answer them, which is why today in Europe you cannot possibly stand for election unless you've got a strong position on immigration because people are worried about it," Blair said. "You've got to answer those problems. If you don't answer them then … you leave a large space into which the populists can march."
or, one may propose an agenda that is non-fascist, but in other ways appeal to the proletariat and precariat? end austerity? healthcare for all? nah, too bothersome. let's "listen to people's concerns" and do everything the fascists want instead

the really frustrating thing is that in a longer interview, clinton gets close to realizing the smarter path of actually standing for progressive policy
"We got caught in a kind of transition period. So what I had seen work in the past, and what had worked as recently as 2012, was no longer as appealing or digestible to the people or to the press," she said. She admitted she rejected some big bold economic messages such as a universal basic income because she worried about the cost.

"I was trying to be in a position where I could answer all the hard questions, but I never got the hard questions. I never got them. I was waiting for them. I could answer them. Yet I was running against a guy who did not even pretend to care about policy at all."
but, nah, instead of actually standing for progressive reforms that help people, let's implement the fascist agenda for them instead

iunno. i preferred sanders in 2016, but after clinton got the nomination, i was all in on the yaaas queen train. disappointing to see liberals like her choose fascist appeasement over progressive economic policy
 

Deleted member 7051

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,254
I just don't know when the world decided to become more apathetic. Things were going great for a while, people actually cared about what happened elsewhere in the world and wanted to make it a better place, but now all anyone cares about is themselves and they don't want to help anyone other than themselves.
 
Oct 31, 2017
10,028
Yeah, saw this earlier. Centrists still haven't figured out that you don't defeat the far right by giving them what they want. They just take it, demand more and use it to show they are in the right. I don't understand why this is so hard to understand. Do not justify your enemies policies by agreeing with them.
 

Clefargle

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,114
Limburg
Boo this is the wrong tactic

Appeasing bigots never works. More efforts towards integrating immigrants and outreach to those fleeing war torn regions is what's necerarry.
 

tulpa

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,878
literally she said that 'we are not going to be able to continue provide refuge and support' should be the message sent by European countries but yeah keep defending her. queen of immigration controls
 

i-hate-u

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,374
Politicians are snakes and change their messages constantly only for votes.

In other news, water is wet.
 

Principate

Member
Oct 31, 2017
11,186
I just don't know when the world decided to become more apathetic. Things were going great for a while, people actually cared about what happened elsewhere in the world and wanted to make it a better place, but now all anyone cares about is themselves and they don't want to help anyone other than themselves.
Eh it was always like this. I mean hell we're arguably better than what things were before. The status quo in general is pretty shit.
 

Deleted member 31817

Nov 7, 2017
30,876
They're already radicalized Hillary, curbing immigration just hurts the refugees.
 
Oct 25, 2017
10,089
Sweden
We provide refuge and support because it's the right thing to do on a human level.

If it riles up right-wing populists, we'll deal with that separately.

/European.
 

Htown

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,317
Yeah, saw this earlier. Centrists still haven't figured out that you don't defeat the far right by giving them what they want. They just take it, demand more and use it to show they are in the right. I don't understand why this is so hard to understand. Do not justify your enemies policies by agreeing with them.
pretty much
 

Gobias-Ind

Member
Nov 22, 2017
4,019
cdZEBfQ.jpg


They always swing round this way. Was just a matter of time.
 

Principate

Member
Oct 31, 2017
11,186
This is what people mean when they say Democrats are centre right. Because in most European countries that's where they'd lie.
 

Olaf

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,419
'we are not going to be able to continue provide refuge and support'

But we are?
 

MrChom

Member
Oct 26, 2017
678
Appeasement has a proven track record of....oh....you know what, never mind.

Sadly the best proven way of beating rightwing populists is either to ignore them and become progressive around them, or actively undermine them at every level (block their funding, educate kids about how wrong they are, label them extremists, and ban their assemblies)...
 
Oct 25, 2017
21,426
Sweden
"instead of actually standing for progressive reforms that help people, let's implement the fascist agenda to stop the fascists"

iunno. i preferred sanders in 2016, but after clinton got the nomination, i was all in on the yaaas queen train.

always disappointing to see liberals like her choose fascist appeasement over progressive economic policy
 

Aeferis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,626
Italy
Trying to appease the fascist crowd is what the so-called left wing has been doing for a while here in Europe. And they're losing elections. Badly.

The right/far-right/alt-right electors still vote for their parties, while the left-wing electors just stopped voting altogether.
 

acheron_xl

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,447
MSN, WI
I mean, you could try to address the horrors that people are fleeing from. Or you could not do that. The latter is much easier, I guess.
 

dennett316

Member
Nov 2, 2017
2,978
Blackpool, UK
"Yes, let's give them one of the things they want...that'll make them stop being shitheads to everyone!"
Yeah Hillary, totally, let's make them think their xenophobia and bigotry is acceptable. Just roll over, right? Thank fuck our grandparents never had this attitude in the 1940's.
 

tulpa

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,878
come on guys. she really is the expert on successfully stopping right-wing populists
 

Jibreel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
343
I mean, they wouldn't have had this severe "crisis" if Iraq and later Syria weren't destabilized by the USA or Libya by France and the UK.

Maybe take a look in the mirror at the shit policies you've endorsed?
 
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Aaron

I’m seeing double here!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,077
Minneapolis
Really shitty thing to say, Hillary, and given her openness to free trade I'm a little surprised she'd say something like this.
 

Autodidact

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,729
Oh, dear. I disagree vehemently, to say the least.
This is what people mean when they say Democrats are centre right. Because in most European countries that's where they'd lie.
I also disagree vehemently with this.

That tweet in OP didn't come to pass. Democrats just won an election by running a diverse slate of candidates. Trump's attempt to demonize immigrants backfired.
 

Yeef

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,439
New York
I just don't know when the world decided to become more apathetic. Things were going great for a while, people actually cared about what happened elsewhere in the world and wanted to make it a better place, but now all anyone cares about is themselves and they don't want to help anyone other than themselves.
51de1d5QTBL._SX329_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg



Basically the book posits that the rise of automation combined with the growing population of young people around the world (along with a few other factors) is fueling a lot of the populism that's rising up all around the world. It's a solid, quick read.
 

Buzzman

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,549
Go fuck yourself Hillary. Some of us don't have the heart or even the means to keep out millions of refugees, mainly caused by your country's actions in the first place. Racist asshole.
 

Sibersk Esto

Changed the hierarchy of thread titles
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,468
I just don't know when the world decided to become more apathetic. Things were going great for a while, people actually cared about what happened elsewhere in the world and wanted to make it a better place, but now all anyone cares about is themselves and they don't want to help anyone other than themselves.
This is inaccurate
 
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