That was the catalyst for sure, but pegida existed before these events in Germany. On the other hand, Italy, Greece and Spain had to deal with smugglers for years now and Europe simply didn't helped them
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Hillary Clinton: Europe must curb immigration to stop rightwing populists
- Thread starter Slime
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Dril will be taught in schools 500 years from now the way we study Plato today.
Love how she talks about European right-wing nativism and doesn't once mention austerity. Glad Hillary's still around to remind us again and again what a terrible candidate she was and how out-of-step she is with mainstream Democrats, let alone the progressive wings.
It was predating that but it very much accellerated the trend. Xenophobes react to a increase in "people not like me" effectively as though its an exponential of what it actually is.
Why would she suggest that left wing parties adopt austerity to win over populist swing voters? That's the opposite of what those voters want.
he's saying that left wing parties should much more clearly run on ending austerity
the "economic anxiety" felt by many now can be blamed both on immigrants and austerity (to different degrees of inaccuracy)
she chose to accept the fascists' worldview that it's all about immigrants, rather than consider that it could be the fault of austerity and/or the current late-stage capitalist dystopia we all live in
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There are two ways to stop immigration:
- Have your country so horrible that nobody wants to move there
- Have their country good enough that they don't want to leave
The issue with the intersection of "liberal on immigration" and "end austerity" is that the combo will be interpreted by populist voters as "oh look theyre getting all our benefits" a la Reagans Welfare Queens bullshit. Which is why the left wing parties move to emphasize "strength" on the immigration side to try and fight that. (see: Nafta bashing in primaries and tightening/highlighting immigration enforcement changes w Obama) The social issues and xenophobia make it so trying to run purely on the economic side results in your message being taken a very different way because those people are super shitty.
I want to make sure that i'm understanding this, white people lose their god damn minds when brown people enter their country, and she's proposing that this is the brown peoples fault and they need to be stopped?
It's amusing considering how much this forum and GAF used to insufferably stan for her.
i dunno
the social democratic parties in europe started moving right on economical issues already in the nineties, long before the current rise in anti-immigration sentiments
so that was not done in response to anti-immigration sentiments
in the current climate, not many european parties have tried running on aggressive left-wing economic policy
the two well-known parties that did (podemos and syriza) did quite well, at least initially
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In my view, a hard populist left turn (as in making no concessions) is what is needed to combat the right. Bernie has come the closest to doing that. The only other politician who I can think of who is on track to following Bernie's path is Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, and I hope she stays on that path. The tactic to run back to the center is a losing one, at least today. Playing right into the right's hands.
Thats more reflecting the collapse of the hyper far left economic views (communism/hard S socialism/etc.) in that timeframe I think. The conventional wisdom center definitely shifted rightward in that era and is shifting leftward now.
the people living in those developed countries aren't all going to welcome those people with open arms or elect politicians that will. i also will not fault those displaced people in the future for doing what they got to do for survival. it really is one of those things that is gonna end badly for so many across the world. best we can do now is develop technology that will allow us to cope with harsher conditions in the near future.
Europe is god awful at immigration
Its because of their immigration system thats helped the rise of fascism not the amount of immigrants.
Canada this year will be accepting the most immigrants its had since 1957 at around 350k in a country with 35m ppl. Conservative PM Harper actually increased our immigration, gave more power to the provinces, and got rid of the cap on immigrants so that provinces could have as many as they want.
Canada's immigration system is not altruistic however, it comes from P. Trudeau's 1967 point system. We (govt) do not see immigrants as ppl but as economic tools. Europe doesnt have the same opportunity to do so but I figured I'd go over how Canada scouts for immigrants.
What Europe struggles with most of all is multiculturalism. Multiculturalism is the practice of integrating different peoples under one umbrella. It does not mean we Canadians are cultural relativists, it means we seek out immigrants whose views align with our own. Further, part of this practice is settling those immigrants in such a way that they not only integrate but that the majority nation (so white anglophones in Canada) are able to integrate with them as well. Canada's multiculturalism came about because of the anglophone/francophone divide, its about time Europeans other than academics look at how Canada survived the Quiet Revolution (all of our history is the history of this divide however, but the QR is what most ppl will talk about).
Its because of their immigration system thats helped the rise of fascism not the amount of immigrants.
Canada this year will be accepting the most immigrants its had since 1957 at around 350k in a country with 35m ppl. Conservative PM Harper actually increased our immigration, gave more power to the provinces, and got rid of the cap on immigrants so that provinces could have as many as they want.
Canada's immigration system is not altruistic however, it comes from P. Trudeau's 1967 point system. We (govt) do not see immigrants as ppl but as economic tools. Europe doesnt have the same opportunity to do so but I figured I'd go over how Canada scouts for immigrants.
What Europe struggles with most of all is multiculturalism. Multiculturalism is the practice of integrating different peoples under one umbrella. It does not mean we Canadians are cultural relativists, it means we seek out immigrants whose views align with our own. Further, part of this practice is settling those immigrants in such a way that they not only integrate but that the majority nation (so white anglophones in Canada) are able to integrate with them as well. Canada's multiculturalism came about because of the anglophone/francophone divide, its about time Europeans other than academics look at how Canada survived the Quiet Revolution (all of our history is the history of this divide however, but the QR is what most ppl will talk about).
I mean she's talking about Europe's rise of fascism and racism (and a terrible way to approach it) but yeah it's all America's fault lol
Why can't more countries just do what Canada does and use a points system? I haven't heard anyone calling Canada a monstrous country but when that idea gets floated around in the States its spoken of as the worst thing that could possibly happen to this country.
Yeah, appeasement worked so well the last time fascists were a big deal. Hillary needs to go away.
In Europe the hard left is not popular. Social democrats have some pull still and there's a broader willingness to socialize the economy, but the hard left equivalent of a Bannon is like swapping one form of cancer for another.
Centre left is the only way forward
more broadly than this forum or its predecessor, it's frustrating given that the left has been calling out Clinton for this stuff for literally years now, and yet a vocal and disproportionately powerful contingent has refused to substantively engage criticisms of her and other Democrats, and instead focused on attacking and smearing the motivations of the people who articulate those critiques. some of these people are now acting as though they've only just discovered that Clinton and other prominent Democrats are in fact very bad on immigration
One of the things about point systems is that you have a lot of control over what earns points. GOP-proposed point systems are a lot more punishing than Canadian ones.
Also, however, all immigration law is illegitimate and free movement is the only acceptable moral position
Labour being centre left failed miserably in the UK the last time it was tried at a general election.
People have been criticizing Hillary for years but they'd get shouted down as being sexist (similar to how Auto tried to say that yelling back YAAAS QUEEEEN was a homophobic dog whistle) or influenced by the right-wing media. That effectively shut the conversation down. It's only now that these criticisms are being heard and taken seriously.
so you propose that people fleeing political persecution and death should fill in a points card an wait a few months/years in their home countries (where they are facing political persecution) for a reply from immigration authorities about whether they score highly enough or not?
So what we need is for a Democrat controlled white house and congress to come up with a fair point system and pass that.
Something like "are you not a serial killer? 100 points out of 100 needed" would be good
So the next time the Dems lose the point system gets overhauled and ends up serving diametrically different aims. I'm good with experts, but technocracy can be so short sighted at times.
Mass immigration almost always leads to the rise of the sort of far right authoritarianism we're seeing now (and is likely the biggest factor in the current wave sweeping the globe).
The solution isn't to stop people who are already immigrating, but to fix the reasons why people are immigrating in the first place, i.e. stop blowing up their homes.
The solution isn't to stop people who are already immigrating, but to fix the reasons why people are immigrating in the first place, i.e. stop blowing up their homes.
Yeah that's clearly a problem. Maybe it could be structured in such a way to make it very difficult to screw with. It's clear our current immigration system is broken. It seems everyone just wants to kick the can down the road and when someone speaks up with an idea the other side just shouts no and nothing gets done.
the people you are arguing with on this are aggressively disinterested in learning about European politics so I wouldn't bother
Compromising with fascists is the only way centrists know how to operate.
Climate change was the very first thing I thought of. We are so utterly fucked in the future and most still seemingly don't even realize it. The Middle East and North Africa will continue to deteriorate and spawn even more migrations.
We'll consider this shitty 2010-2020 decade for refugees and immigration to be the halcyon days. This world is fucked.
Europe doesn't have the luxury of having two large oceans on either side protecting us from all the brown people fleeing the homes that we have bombed to smithereens.
You were so quick to call out Bernie for racism (rightfully) but you're hedging here based on some abstract principles of politics (which don't event fucking apply because she isn't in any position of power here or in Europe).
Just call it racism. That's what this is. It's not "being bad at politics".
Hillary was always allowed to be criticized without you being sexist but that doesn't mean that a lot of the criticisms lobbed at her weren't sexist
It's kind of weird that you don't seem to get that tbh
Eyup.
Right-wing governments, greed, lack of compassion, lack of investment in good energy resources, etc. etc. etc.
Thanks world.
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