No, you have no idea what life she has led, you have no idea what struggles she has made, you of all people in a thread filled with trans folk expressing their anger and sorrow have no right to come into their lives and demand they fucking "grow up" you ignoramus!
And you have no idea what life I have led. That person is twisting my comment and it's not right.
Imagine thinking that was the only problem with that you just said...
Without fail, these threads become places for people to tell trans people why they’re wrong for being upset. Transphobia is alive and well and we’re told to put up with it for reason after reason. We’re told that we’re the ones who should educate, and when that fails we’re the ones who should be less sensitive. People invariably jump on a simple mantra like “trans women are women and trans men are men” to slap on whatever asterisks they feel are appropriate, and we‘re forced to argue in favor of our existences yet again. And the process repeats each and every time a new trans-related thread pops up. It’s exhausting.
It's totally understandable for trans people is react in the way they do when these conversations go in this way. The issue is that it shouldn't get to that point. If there's a specific type of behaviour that avoids bans/warnings but is bad then maybe we as a community should petition for rules to be changed.
You literally came in here to say that the people who are rightly mad at the people defending TERFs deserved to get ban. That makes you an asshole
No. The original bans were justified given the hostility. You can defend yourself without telling others "to eat shit".
I didn’t use my friend as a defense. I don’t think having a transgender friend in any way means I cannot be transphobic.
I’ve been told that using “trans” can often be taken poorly because it is ambiguous to if you mean transgender or transsexual and the issues around people using transsexual. Maybe it’s not a big deal, I don’t know. I definitely thought the rewording was done with the intention to make it sound like I was using poor choice, but that could easily be a mistake on my part.
He just had a popular comedian score a multi-million performance on Netflix based on him licking some surface level wounds over his transpobia, the idea that society isn't being accomodating enough to transphobes is laughable
You said, direct quote, "For example, I have a transgender woman who is a friend. There are aspects of her life that are simply different than my friend who is a cisgender woman." That second statement is transphobic as it subtly implies that trans women are "not quite" women like a cis woman is, or alternatively that trans women and cis women are inherently different. You're vague on what those differences in her life are, but really there's only two possible differences I can think of: medical, which is private and completely independent from gender and so irrelevant; or being a victim of transphobia, which is an external factor impacting trans people, not inherent to her being a woman, and therefore again irrelevant to her being a woman.
No. The original bans were justified given the hostility. You can defend yourself without telling others "to eat shit".
But whatever, I'm done discussing this with you...
No, it doesn’t imply that. And you’re saying it’s transphobic because you took things a certain way. I would describe it as transgender women and cisgender women are both women, but there are some characteristics that are different and can be meaningful in certain times.
Do you really think you would 100% know if what you were saying was transphobic?
It’s so difficult to take what you’re trying to say in good faith when you’ve had multiple trans people in this very thread point out why what you’re saying is hurtful. Instead of trying to empathize and learn, you defend and deflect. You insinuate that we’re a hivemind uninterested in dialogue. You make yourself the victim in a thread about trans people. You seem wholly uninterested in trying to grow, instead caring only to justify your inane differentiation between cis and trans people.
"Trans" is not an offensive term. I call myself trans. Daily.
I deal with racism all the time and know what you’re talking about. I’m used to micro-aggressions. I’m not saying that means I’m immune to falling into them, but I really try and be aware of them. Now be honest with me. How can I seriously take comments as a learning experience of me not understanding something when the people saying it are so clearly misrepresenting what I’m saying? Like the whole “friend” thing. You really think I am trying to use the “my friend is a transgender woman so that means I’m not a transphobic” as a black person? It’s abundantly clear I wasn’t using it that way. Any discussion that mentions a friend in a certain group is not using it as the “well my friend is x” defense. And I can’t really take advice when I’m being so clearly misrepresented. The annoying thing is that I am absolutely not somebody interested in any way of being transphobic. Like, just listen and you’ll see.
This simply does not represent the events of this thread, at least not the parts I’m involved with.
No. I will gladly listen. I’m not going to only listen though. Even on issues that deal with race and affect me, I want to be heard. I don’t want to be obeyed.
I think you need to be more specific if you think you're being read the wrong way.
This whole thread was a rough read, cat analogy and the “decorum” valley especially... chin up though
I'm sorry that y'all had to once again deal with this on here. Hoping that you can find something that helps even if just a little tonight.
It's natural that people would react with hostility when their very existence is being made light of.No. The original bans were justified given the hostility. You can defend yourself without telling others "to eat shit".
But whatever, I'm done discussing this with you...
This thread is the perfect storm of Hillary and transphobia, Era's most acceptable form of bigotry, so it being a shitshow is honestly just to be expected.
Its just another moment of realization that this board isn't as progressive as it claims to be.
What they’re saying is that transphobic remarks being met with a degree of heat isn’t anything to decry.
This board was never progressive. Resetera's just a bunch of milquetoast moderate right role-playing "progressive" because they think its cool.
I might just not get it, in which case I apologize. But taken at face value this seems fairly benign. Especially since she comments immediately afterwards that self identification for transgender people should be recognized.
Someone inform me how it is wrong to stand by transgender people, but also recognize the reality that gender identity is not something fully understood in this country and we must show some patience as people catch up? Legally you fight for their rights all of the way, but socially all you can do is inform, advocate, and wait. Many were not socialized to understand gender identity, and like with many older people it will take time. Maybe Clinton's messaging was off in some places, but I don't see the problem with the core of what she has to say.
Nobody's gotta be patient to people doing transphobic shit in public
I don't think she is speaking about tolerating hatred, I think that's a disingenuous reading of this. Some people are genuinely clueless about trans issues, and berating them for not understanding something they have barely been exposed to isn't helpful in accomplishing change. Clinton has a solid record on transgender and broader LGBT rights and clearly isn't defending outright hate or attacks against them, the most she mentioned was discomfort generated from having your perception of gender rooted in a more "traditional" understanding. Here was here platform on said issues in 2016, and it doesn't sound to me like she is hostile toward progress at all:
I mean even as Secretary of State she was promoting their rights to be recognized by the UN, waving the work she's done standing against hate and bigotry is disingenuous.
