Hillary Clinton Says We Must Be ‘Sensitive’ to Transphobia

[Xaszatm]

When specifically describing TERFers. Are people racist when they bring up that racist people say "I have a black friend?"

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Kiblar, are you trans? I ask this because if you’re not, you are in a thread where multiple trans men and trans women have said why they find her words offensive. It is no longer your place to tell these trans men and trans women what they should be offended by. If they find it offensive, then it is offensive, and hand-wringing till the cows come home makes you come off as trying to overturn the multiple voices in here, which if you are not trans is very insulting.

I am not trans, just as I am not black nor Muslim. I cannot ever truly know their troubles or experiences. What I can do is that when they say something, they speak from experience and defer to them. I do not insist that I am right and triple down trying to prove to the victims that they are wrong.

 

[Renna Hazel]

Yeah, I get what you are saying. But you don't really deal with ignorance by being sympathetic to extremely bigoted views. You need to immediately address those views firmly and explain why they are wrong. You can be sympathetic to people without necessarily being sensitive to their bigoted views.

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I agree, I don't think anyone in this conversation used the word sympathetic nor did Hilary. I read the article and it's a bit different than the headline, Hilary is saying we should be sensitive in how we approach educating people about this topic. I think she's saying we can't just call everyone a bigot or assume they're hateful if they don't understand the topic, because most of us were on that boat at some point. This is going to be true of any topic that has to be taught to people.

Please don't mistake this for me excusing hateful people, I have no tolerance for those types, I just don't think everyone who is ignorant is hateful.

 

[Kirblar]

Kiblar, are you trans? I ask this because if you’re not, you are in a thread where multiple trans men and trans women have said why they find her words offensive. It is no longer your place to tell these trans men and trans women what they should be offended by. If they find it offensive, then it is offensive, and hand-wringing till the cows come home makes you come off as trying to overturn the multiple voices in here, which if you are not trans is very insulting.

I am not trans, just as I am not black nor Muslim. I cannot ever truly know their troubles or experiences. What I can do is that when they say something, they speak from experience and defer to them. I do not insist that I am right and triple down trying to prove to the victims that they are wrong.

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I'm not, I'm gay, but not trans. There is a difference between "I'm offended by this" and "She is a TERF". I'm engaging with the former argument because I didn't really understand it and I can get where some of it is coming from now. The latter aspect is not just "I'm offended", it's actively calling her a TERF based off an interview where at no point she actively expresses that those are her personal views.

 

[Osu 16 Bit]

The life experience thing has been a struggle for me. It's held me back for decades, and is still painful and hard to accept. I try to just understand that it doesn't matter. So it sucks to see her bring it up and give any weight to it.

If her point was this is how the older generation feels and she hears it all the time..and then explains why it's WRONG, then it'd be ok. But without that...get her out of here. Super disappointing.

 

[Subpar Scrub]

Wow that’s fucked up, but unsurprising

Where are all "YAAAAS QUEEN YASSSS" stans?

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“the person/thing you liked did something bad, why aren’t you defending it?”

it’s almost like people can *gasp* identify bad things as bad.

 

[brainchild]

No one is revising history regarding race, but racism is something that has to be taught to people.

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Not necessarily.

Some people are biologically predisposed to dislike people who are different than them. This is described as Social Dominance Orientation:

Social dominance orientation (SDO)[1] is a personality trait which predicts social and political attitudes, and is a widely used social psychological scale. SDO is conceptualized under social dominance theory as a measure of individual differences in levels of group-based discrimination; that is, it is a measure of an individual's preference for hierarchy within any social system and the domination over lower-status groups. It is a predisposition toward anti-egalitarianism within and between groups. The concept of SDO as a measurable individual difference is a product of social dominance theory.

Individuals who score high in SDO desire to maintain and, in many cases, increase the differences between social statuses of different groups, as well as individual group members. Typically, they are dominant, driven, tough, and seekers of power. People high in SDO also prefer hierarchical group orientations. Often, people who score high in SDO adhere strongly to belief in a "dog-eat-dog" world.[2] It has also been found that men are generally higher than women in SDO measures.[3] Studies have found that SDO has a strong positive relationship with authoritarian and racist beliefs.[4]

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Some evidence suggests that both the dominance and anti-egalitarianism dimensions of SDO are determined by genetic, rather than environmental, factors.[37]

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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_dominance_orientation

For people who score highly on this scale, even if they weren't raised to be prejudiced, they could very well end up having prejudiced views simply because they have a natural inclination to make bad assumptions about people who are different from them and desire to protect their status. Teaching bigotry just strengthens it, but it isn't the source. After all, it has to exist as a concept before it can be taught in the first place.

 

[Mekanos]

Why is she still saying words?

Kiblar, are you trans? I ask this because if you’re not, you are in a thread where multiple trans men and trans women have said why they find her words offensive. It is no longer your place to tell these trans men and trans women what they should be offended by. If they find it offensive, then it is offensive, and hand-wringing till the cows come home makes you come off as trying to overturn the multiple voices in here, which if you are not trans is very insulting.

I am not trans, just as I am not black nor Muslim. I cannot ever truly know their troubles or experiences. What I can do is that when they say something, they speak from experience and defer to them. I do not insist that I am right and triple down trying to prove to the victims that they are wrong.

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Wouldn't be a poliera thread if Kirblar didn't take the devil's advocate stance.

 

[Deleted member 11413]

I agree, I don't think anyone in this conversation used the word sympathetic nor did Hilary. I read the article and it's a bit different than the headline, Hilary is saying we should be sensitive in how we approach educating people about this topic. I think she's saying we can't just call everyone a bigot or assume they're hateful if they don't understand the topic, because most of us were on that boat at some point. This is going to be true of any topic that has to be taught to people.

Please don't mistake this for me excusing hateful people, I have no tolerance for those types, I just don't think everyone who is ignorant is hateful.

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Everyone who is ignorant is not hateful, on that we agree. The kind of viewpoints she is expressing sensitivity to are not ignorance, they are hateful. Fear of trans people in a bathroom is hatred. Saying trans women are not real women is hateful. Hillary is not espousing those views herself, but she is suggesting we should have sensitivity to those views...which we shouldn't. Those views are very obviously transphobic.

 

[Deleted member 42055]

Why is she still saying words?



Wouldn't be a poliera thread if Kirblar didn't take the devil's advocate stance.

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I always thought they were a straight older white man

 

[entrydenied]

That lack of self awareness and empathy.
She has the gall to ask people to think about how these old women would feel when they meet a trans women once in a blue moon but what about trans women who are forced to use bath and locker rooms for men on a day to day basis?

 

[Deleted member 11413]

I always thought they were a straight older white man

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Kirblar is a gay Jewish man.

 

[Renna Hazel]

Not necessarily.

Some people are biologically predisposed to dislike people who are different than them. This is described as Social Dominance Orientation:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_dominance_orientation

For people who score highly on this scale, even if they weren't raised to be prejudiced, they could very well end up having prejudiced views simply because they have a natural inclination to make bad assumptions about people who are different from them and desire to protect their status. Teaching bigotry just strengthens it, but it isn't the source. After all, it has to exist as a concept before it can be taught in the first place.

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Perhaps I shouldn't have used an absolute term, though it seems what you posted isn't actually proven to be genetic.

My main point about ignorance not automatically being hateful still stands.

Everyone who is ignorant is not hateful, on that we agree. The kind of viewpoints she is expressing sensitivity to are not ignorance, they are hateful. Fear of trans people in a bathroom is hatred. Saying trans women are not real women is hateful. Hillary is not espousing those views herself, but she is suggesting we should have sensitivity to those views...which we shouldn't. Those views are very obviously transphobic.

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So this might be where we disagree a bit. I believe it's the wrong thing to say, but I don't always believe it's coming from a place of hate. I'm going by my own personal experience, and if you were to ask me as a kid if a transgender woman was a woman I would have said no, not because I hate them but because my school taught me something different. I simply didn't know any better. I think a lot of people today who support transgender rights today would have said the same thing at some point in their lives.

Perhaps I'm being optimistic because I don't think transgender acceptance is very high and I'd like to think it's something we can change by educating people. I know many who say these things do it directly from a place of hate, but I'd be willing to bet many people just haven't been educated otherwise. I do get the feeling that many on this website think the general public has a higher base of information relating to this issue than they actually do. A lot of people at my old job didn't even know what transgender meant, or that there were more than 2 genders.

 

[Deleted member 835]

First paragraph is just nooope. People defending her are wastemen.

Hillary Clinton believes that we must be “sensitive” to the concerns of those who don’t believe transgender people should be treated in accordance with their gender.

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[Christine]

Clinton isn't a fucking TERF she's just happy to be complicit in allowing the UK press to weaponize her basic ass standard issue cis lady transphobia because she's bad at politics

She's not worth defending, I swear--utterly purposeless. Better to admit that you huff your own farts because you kinda like the smell

 

[Mekanos]

Better to admit that you huff your own farts because you kinda like the smell

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Well, that is a proud TERF tradition.

 

[Tremorah]

Fuck that, Hillary

 

[Menx64]

I mean that's no surprise coming from her generation. I know there are exceptions, but must of her generation think the same way.
The sad thing is that they are passing those ideas to the children and grandchildren, so they problem won't go away with them.

 

[mbpm]

This is not the thing I thought she would say when reading the title.

 

[Deleted member 11413]

Perhaps I shouldn't have used an absolute term, though it seems what you posted isn't actually proven to be genetic.

My main point about ignorance not automatically being hateful still stands.


So this might be where we disagree a bit. I believe it's the wrong thing to say, but I don't always believe it's coming from a place of hate. I'm going by my own personal experience, and if you were to ask me as a kid if a transgender woman was a woman I would have said no, not because I hate them but because my school taught me something different. I simply didn't know any better. I think a lot of people today who support transgender rights today would have said the same thing at some point in their lives.

Perhaps I'm being optimistic because I don't think transgender acceptance is very high and I'd like to think it's something we can change by educating people. I know many who say these things do it directly from a place of hate, but I'd be willing to bet many people just haven't been educated otherwise. I do get the feeling that many on this website think the general public has a higher base of information relating to this issue than they actually do. A lot of people at my old job didn't even know what transgender meant, or that there were more than 2 genders.

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You can spread hate without intending to be hateful. To say transwomen aren't real women is hateful, even if the person saying it is simply ignorant or not intending to be hateful. I also believed transphobic things when I was younger, so I don't think people are static and incapable of change, but I know that things are still hateful even if not intended that way. When I told my trans friend in high school that what he was going through was a 'phase' and that he wasn't really trans, I did not intend to be hateful. I thought he was confused and that I was helping him. In reality, I was being hateful, and inflicting emotional pain on him by not accepting him. I had no problem with trans people as a concept, but when it came to MY friend being trans, I denied their identity. And that hurts, and it's hateful to do that to someone, even if I loved my friend. So when I say that we shouldn't be sensitive to those viewpoints, I'm drawing from my own experience of being transphobic as a teen and learning better. He is a trans man, and the problem was always with me, not with him.

 

[Deleted member 11413]

Clinton isn't a fucking TERF she's just happy to be complicit in allowing the UK press to weaponize her basic ass standard issue cis lady transphobia because she's bad at politics

She's not worth defending, I swear--utterly purposeless. Better to admit that you huff your own farts because you kinda like the smell

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Yes that's exactly what this is. An outlet that often espouses transphobic views getting her to use her casual transphobia in a way that lends TERFs some legitimacy. She's not a TERF but she's ceding them ground here.

 

[Renna Hazel]

You can spread hate without intending to be hateful. To say transwomen aren't real women is hateful, even if the person saying it is simply ignorant or not intending to be hateful. I also believed transphobic things when I was younger, so I don't think people are static and incapable of change, but I know that things are still hateful even if not intended that way. When I told my trans friend in high school that what he was going through was a 'phase' and that he wasn't really trans, I did not intend to be hateful. I thought he was confused and that I was helping him. In reality, I was being hateful, and inflicting emotional pain on him by not accepting him. I had no problem with trans people as a concept, but when it came to MY friend being trans, I denied their identity. And that hurts, and it's hateful to do that to someone, even if I loved my friend. So when I say that we shouldn't be sensitive to those viewpoints, I'm drawing from my own experience of being transphobic as a teen and learning better. He is a trans man, and the problem was always with me, not with him.

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Understood, this may just be a semantics things. I take hateful to mean that something is full of hate, so a hateful comment and an ignorant comment are two different things to me. The comments can be just as hurtful to those receiving them, but I do think it's an important distinction in regards to the person making them. It doesn't excuse the comments but I think the ignorant person would be open to a dialogue and potentially change their mind, while the hateful person would be a waste of my time. This is how I interpret the actually things that Hilary said (not what the article writer interprets).

The fact of the matter is that we have to educate and change the minds of people that are like you and I once were. I also think I'm interpreting what Hilary said much differently than people here. Going solely based on her quotes and not the OP or the writer, it sounds like she's saying people need to be sensitive to how difficult the situation as a whole is. We need to convince people that something they've been sure about for the past 30+ years is wrong. That's a situation where we need an effective approach to make real progress.

 

[Deleted member 11413]

Understood, this may just be a semantics things. I take hateful to mean that something is full of hate, so a hateful comment and an ignorant comment are two different things to me. The comments can be just as hurtful to those receiving them, but I do think it's an important distinction in regards to the person making them. It doesn't excuse the comments but I think the ignorant person would be open to a dialogue and potentially change their mind, while the hateful person would be a waste of my time. This is how I interpret the actually things that Hilary said (not what the article writer interprets).

The fact of the matter is that we have to educate and change the minds of people that are like you and I once were. I also think I'm interpreting what Hilary said much differently than people here. Going solely based on her quotes and not the OP or the writer, it sounds like she's saying people need to be sensitive to how difficult the situation as a whole is. We need to convince people that something they've been sure about for the past 30+ years is wrong. That's a situation where we need an effective approach to make real progress.

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Yeah I get your point. I just don't think you need to be sensitive to transphobic views, because that is lending them legitimacy. I didn't stop being transphobic as a teen because people were sensitive to the ways I was being transphobic; I stopped being transphobic because my friend told me how hurtful I was being to him, and the shame and guilt from hurting him motivated me to learn and change and grow.

 

[Deleted member 835]

I'm not, I'm gay, but not trans. There is a difference between "I'm offended by this" and "She is a TERF". I'm engaging with the former argument because I didn't really understand it and I can get where some of it is coming from now. The latter aspect is not just "I'm offended", it's actively calling her a TERF based off an interview where at no point she actively expresses that those are her personal views.

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Imagine dying defending Hillary

 

[brainchild]

Perhaps I shouldn't have used an absolute term, though it seems what you posted isn't actually proven to be genetic.

My main point about ignorance not automatically being hateful still stands.

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SDO doesn't really tell the whole picture but it's a strong predictor for whether or not a person is likely to hold bigoted views. Trump voters, for instance, tended to score highly on the SDO scale based on studies that have specifically measured such factors, and that isn't a coincidence.

Having said that, there's a difference between general attitudes of 'otherism' (which seem biological) and specific prejudices about out-groups (which is mostly environmental).

It’s important to understand that genes aren’t coding for specific attitudes: there is no gene for racism. What these results indicate is that genes are contributing to behavioral and psychological dispositions to regard out-group members, such as those that are ethnically or culturally different, negatively. Whether these genes are different for different types of out-groups, such as those of a different sexuality vs. those of a different religion, remains to be seen, though it seems likely that most prejudices stem from a similar mechanism, one that fosters fear and suspicion of out-group members. Despite these genetic influences, the specific attitudes (i.e. “immigrants get more than they deserve from the government”) are almost certainly derived from the environment, with genes influencing the degree to which they are endorsed. Consequently, in an environment densely populated with bigoted rhetoric (such as many experienced during the recent election campaign) individuals with a genetic predisposition to out-group hostility may find themselves more readily espousing prejudicial attitudes.

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This is ultimately mixed news: unfortunately, it means that more heritable attitudes are more firmly entrenched[8] but by observing the changes in prejudice over time, it is clear that the specific types and strengths of prejudice within a society are open to change. Key to this is the understanding that heritability refers only to causes of variation, and says nothing about the average level of the trait itself.

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https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/great-ape-expectations/201611/the-biology-bigotry

In any case, I'm not saying that ignorance is hatred, but we shouldn't water down our discourse about basic human rights just because people are ignorant and it makes people feel uncomfortable.

 

[Deleted member 835]

Perhaps I shouldn't have used an absolute term, though it seems what you posted isn't actually proven to be genetic.

My main point about ignorance not automatically being hateful still stands.


So this might be where we disagree a bit. I believe it's the wrong thing to say, but I don't always believe it's coming from a place of hate. I'm going by my own personal experience, and if you were to ask me as a kid if a transgender woman was a woman I would have said no, not because I hate them but because my school taught me something different. I simply didn't know any better. I think a lot of people today who support transgender rights today would have said the same thing at some point in their lives.

Perhaps I'm being optimistic because I don't think transgender acceptance is very high and I'd like to think it's something we can change by educating people. I know many who say these things do it directly from a place of hate, but I'd be willing to bet many people just haven't been educated otherwise. I do get the feeling that many on this website think the general public has a higher base of information relating to this issue than they actually do. A lot of people at my old job didn't even know what transgender meant, or that there were more than 2 genders.

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Doesn't matter if a bigot is bigoted because of lack of ignorance. A bigot is still a bigot that harms others.

 

[brainchild]

Doesn't matter if a bigot is bigoted because of lack of ignorance. A bigot is still a bigot that harms others.

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This is where I'm at. As a black man, I'm not capitulating my basic rights just because someone's racist ass actions stem from ignorance instead of hatred. Many of my friends from the trans community have expressed similar sentiments about that kind of rhetoric.

 

[Renna Hazel]

Yeah I get your point. I just don't think you need to be sensitive to transphobic views, because that is lending them legitimacy. I didn't stop being transphobic as a teen because people were sensitive to the ways I was being transphobic; I stopped being transphobic because my friend told me how hurtful I was being to him, and the shame and guilt from hurting him motivated me to learn and change and grow.

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I totally get you, and I'm glad you grew as a person. For many people, myself included, we have no personal experience like that to push us in one direction. I don't know any transgender people, none of my friends or family have expressed anything indicating such. I don't think taking a sensitive approach means accepting or normalizing what they're saying, just that it's not going to be a simple subject to discuss with people.

Doesn't matter if a bigot is bigoted because of lack of ignorance. A bigot is still a bigot that harms others.

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We can disagree here. It doesn't excuse the person but in the real world of trying to make change it definitely matters. If I knew that one person wasn't even aware the things they were saying was hateful and simply didn't know about the topic at hand, and another person was saying those things out of pure spite, I would undoubtedly have a different approach and interaction with both of those people.

 

[Prototype Viktor]

Read the room, Hillary.

No, not the room full of rich ass-kissers you spend all your time hiding in.

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She can't she's off her game not playing on grass but TERF

 

[Lunar Wolf]

Wow that’s fucked up, but unsurprising



“the person/thing you liked did something bad, why aren’t you defending it?”

it’s almost like people can *gasp* identify bad things as bad.

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It wasn’t a serious question. I’m making fun of people that stanned for her. *gasp*

 

[Deleted member 835]

I totally get you, and I'm glad you grew as a person. For many people, myself included, we have no personal experience like that to push us in one direction. I don't know any transgender people, none of my friends or family have expressed anything indicating such. I don't think taking a sensitive approach means accepting or normalizing what they're saying, just that it's not going to be a simple subject to discuss with people.


We can disagree here. It doesn't excuse the person but in the real world of trying to make change it definitely matters. If I knew that one person wasn't even aware the things they were saying was hateful and simply didn't know about the topic at hand, and another person was saying those things out of pure spite, I would undoubtedly have a different approach and interaction with both of those people.

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We can disagree but as a dude that has to put up with bigots, your opinion doesn't really matter

 

[Renna Hazel]

We can disagree but as a dude that has to put up with bigots, your opinion doesn't really matter

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Then I suppose there is no reason for us to have a conversation if only one of our opinions matter. I am sorry that you have to deal with that though, and hopefully I can convince people to change their minds so you encounter less bigots. Please do take care.

 

[brainchild]

We can disagree here. It doesn't excuse the person but in the real world of trying to make change it definitely matters. If I knew that one person wasn't even aware the things they were saying was hateful and simply didn't know about the topic at hand, and another person was saying those things out of pure spite, I would undoubtedly have a different approach and interaction with both of those people.

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Why don't you put some of that energy into understanding that oppressed classes don't need to hear about how we can do better at helping people become less prejudiced towards us? It's not the job of the oppressed to educate the oppressor.

 

[Deleted member 835]

Then I suppose there is no reason for us to have a conversation if only one of our opinions matter. I am sorry that you have to deal with that though, and hopefully I can convince people to change their minds so you encounter less bigots. Please do take care.

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I am happy for people to try and educate bigots to try and change them also would like to thank them. But that isn't on me to educate bigots, I don't have time to educate people that hate me cus of my skin.

 

[Subpar Scrub]

It wasn’t a serious question. I’m making fun of people that stanned for her. *gasp*

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Yeah no shit, that wasn’t my point

 

[Renna Hazel]

Why don't you put some of that energy into understanding that oppressed classes don't need to hear about how we can do better at helping people become less prejudiced towards us? It's not the job of the oppressed to educate the oppressor.

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Sure, if you don't want me to talk to you then I wont. However in this particular conversation I was referencing something Hilary Clinton said and pointing out why it makes sense for HER to take that approach. It also makes sense for me to take that approach because I feel it's the most effective way to change minds. I did never told you or anyone else to educate someone, just explaining why it makes sense to take a sensitive approach to the topic sometimes.

I am happy for people to try and educate bigots to try and change them also would like to thank them. But that isn't on me to educate bigots, I don't have time to educate people that hate me cus of my skin.

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Likewise, I never told you what to do either, but this is how I'll approach it when I address people. However your example here is kind of what I'm talking about. I wouldn't waste my time trying to educate someone that hates you (or me) because of my skin color. I don't deal with hateful people, but I can't deal with someone who does something racist but doesn't understand why it's racist. I can educate them about my culture and maybe prevent them from doing it again. I'm just saying there is a difference between those two examples. Again, I'm not telling you how you should personally approach it.

 

[Christine]

Yes that's exactly what this is. An outlet that often espouses transphobic views getting her to use her casual transphobia in a way that lends TERFs some legitimacy. She's not a TERF but she's ceding them ground here.

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It's pathetic tbh I mean what did she get out of it? A sad interview piece that isn't even really about her? I resent seeing my future traded on so cheaply

 

[brainchild]

Sure, if you don't want me to talk to you then I wont. However in this particular conversation I was referencing something Hilary Clinton said and pointing out why it makes sense for HER to take that approach. It also makes sense for me to take that approach because I feel it's the most effective way to change minds. I did never told you or anyone else to educate someone, just explaining why it makes sense to take a sensitive approach to the topic sometimes.

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Well, Hillary's language wasn't so personal and it seemed like general advice she was giving. Had she only referred to herself, this thread probably wouldn't exist.

 

[Lunar Wolf]

Yeah no shit, that wasn’t my point

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Your point was meaningless and a waste of time then if you knew that I was mocking rather than asking a serious question.

 

[Renna Hazel]

Well, Hillary's language wasn't so personal and it seemed like general advice she was giving. Had she only referred to herself, this thread probably wouldn't exist.

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Well she used a personal anecdote and says that's a common thing she encounters. I did take it more as advice for politicians running in 2020 since she mentions 'others'. Perhaps she did mean it on a much broader scale. I believe what she says has merit but I also don't think everyone has to follow her advice. Like you, I'm sure I handle discrimination leveled against me differently that someone who doesn't face it would.

 

[Deleted member 11413]

It's pathetic tbh I mean what did she get out of it? A sad interview piece that isn't even really about her? I resent seeing my future traded on so cheaply

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Who knows, but it is unfortunate.

 

[Subpar Scrub]

Your point was meaningless and a waste of time then if you knew that I was mocking rather than asking a serious question.

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Not really, it was a critique of your poor faith mocking. Dw about it, it’s not worth it.

 

[travisbickle]

Stop falling for these political tricks of empty platitudes, wow old women have a different definition of what it means to be a woman and they have all lived unique lives? Who would have thought we’re all unique and have opinions.

I don’t know what it means to be a man from another man’s perspective? I sometimes question what it means to be a man to myself.
But by law I have been given that identity and I am legally allowed to enter into areas designated for men only.

Politicians should be measured on their actions and proposals. Propose a measure we can enact that covers a broader range of definitions for gender and stops discrimination. Stop talking shit and trying to appear relatable.

 

[Huncho_Houdini]

I do think there needs to be a level of understanding when it comes to those ignorant about trans issues, especially considering how many people have grown up in an environment where no mind was paid to trans issues. However, it's not a social issue you can compromise about and one has to always fight for trans rights. Help people learn, but don't validate their ignorance.

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pretty much this.

outside of places like Era, the pace of acceptance of these things is MUCH slower and that's reflected in Hillary trying bring people along. You're not going to get those folks by hitting them with a whip; these are topics they've rarely even thought about and never deal with in their daily lives. It will take awhile and everyone will have to give folks some patience. they'll catch up sooner or later. Just keep presenting the issues and being visible. familiarity is the key to everything.

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I agree. Many of you are divorced from reality if you think the general public understands transgenderism as well as most people here do.

 

[cDNA]

Although the full interview is under paywall at The Sunday Times, excerpts pulled by fellow U.K. outlet The Daily Mail illustrate Hillary’s unease with the issue. When Aitkenhead remarks that women of earlier generations may not be comfortable sharing the restroom or locker room with trans women, Hillary is said to have nodded in emphatic agreement.

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Is not the Daily Mail the conservative rag banned on here. Why Out, a magazine, don't pay to read the interview.

 

[cDNA]

Is not the Daily Mail the conservative rag banned on here. Why Out, a magazine, don't pay to read the interview. And we have 7 pages of discussion on this without actually reading the original article

 

[FeistyBoots]

I think to her point of the older generation needing time, what really should happen is more of an outreach, ie explaining what transgender and gender identity is to people that don’t understand it. Heck I’m a full on supporter but I’ve never met someone in real life who was transitioning or identified as a different gender to their birth and I went to art school where you’d think people would be more open about that sort of thing. It’s definatelly a newer phenomenon out in the open, I had never heard of the concept until a couple years ago.

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We don't transition to a different gender. We adjust our physiology to align with the inherent gender identity we're born with.

It's not at all a new phenomenon.

 

[PHOENIXZERO]

Just go away...

 

[FeistyBoots]

My son is attending an Our Whole Lives sexual education course designed for younger kids and his teacher is a transwoman. I admit that it makes me uncomfortable. I feel bigoted, and I can't rationally explain it.

My kid learning about transgender people and their experiences won't make him question his identity. That is an absurd idea, but yet it's still there in the back of my mind.

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I mean, it's pretty transphobic. At least you recognize that.

Also, "trans woman", please. We aren't separate from the category of 'women'. We're women who have the trait of being trans; you wouldn't call a woman with, say, lupus a "lupuswoman". We're women, not a modified form of women.

 

[Zellia]

I think I'd rather be sensitive to trans people who struggle every day with bigotry and hatred, personally. Sounds like Chelsea at least was prepared to defend trans people, rather than bigots.

 

[KKBB]

I mean, it's pretty transphobic. At least you recognize that.

Also, "trans woman", please. We aren't separate from the category of 'women'. We're women who have the trait of being trans; you wouldn't call a woman with, say, lupus a "lupuswoman". We're women, not a modified form of women.

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That's ironic considering that comparing women being trans with women having a disease like you just did is WAY more offensive than saying "trans woman".