Everyone who knows their own inherent sense of gender understands the concept of gender identity. This applies to most people who have ever lived, both trans and cis.
Hillary Clinton Says We Must Be ‘Sensitive’ to Transphobia
- Thread starter bulbasort
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I'm trans. I'm not about to attack my own fucking tribe, ffs. Being trans isn't a disease, correct. Perhaps a poorly-chosen example on my part.
My point stands - a binary trans man or trans woman is not a separate gender from cis men or women.
Trans men/women and cis men/women are both women, but they are separate definitions.
Put me firmly in the category of "Hillary, your time in the spotlight is over, please STFU, fade away, and let more progressives come into the spotlight."
I'm very fortunate to have learned about gender identity along with my adoptive white Boomer parents approximately 15 years ago when a lesbian friend of mine had an ex who was a trans woman who was actually transitioning to a trans woman at the time and both came to my house quite frequently and both me and my parents always had conversations that were hours long about gender identity and sexual orientation and the challenges that both communities faced at that time 15 years ago. It was out of these conversations that myself and my parents became strong allies of the LGBTQ+ rights movement, and all of us kept up with current events of the LGBTQ+ rights movement, it was, also, because of these conversations that when same-sex marriage came up for a popular vote in Maryland (occurred before the landmark SCOTUS case that made same-sex marriage legal in the entire country), my entire family voted for legalizing same-sex marriage and we made a strong attempt at trying to get our friends to also vote for same-sex marriage.
Highly fortunate that both of my Boomer parents had progressive ideologies since childhood in that they participated in the 1960s civil rights movement. They believe that healthcare is a right not a privilege, so much they set up a healthcare clinic that was completely free for patients, they successfully recruited doctors and nurses who also believed that free, high quality healthcare should be completely free to everyone. They also support UBI, everyone being paid a living wage among other progressive ideological ideals.
My parents raised me and my two adopted black brothers to treat everyone the same way we would want to be treated, with respect, dignity, kindness, if the people we meet are clearly bigots after talking with them for a few conversations, it's definitely correct to disassociate with them.
I'm highly fortunate however to have met in my life, people who are socially progressive and are not conservatives, I feel that is one of the benefits of living in Baltimore, it has such a large group of social progressives and it outweighs any conservatives that lives in Baltimore.
I'm very fortunate to have learned about gender identity along with my adoptive white Boomer parents approximately 15 years ago when a lesbian friend of mine had an ex who was a trans woman who was actually transitioning to a trans woman at the time and both came to my house quite frequently and both me and my parents always had conversations that were hours long about gender identity and sexual orientation and the challenges that both communities faced at that time 15 years ago. It was out of these conversations that myself and my parents became strong allies of the LGBTQ+ rights movement, and all of us kept up with current events of the LGBTQ+ rights movement, it was, also, because of these conversations that when same-sex marriage came up for a popular vote in Maryland (occurred before the landmark SCOTUS case that made same-sex marriage legal in the entire country), my entire family voted for legalizing same-sex marriage and we made a strong attempt at trying to get our friends to also vote for same-sex marriage.
Highly fortunate that both of my Boomer parents had progressive ideologies since childhood in that they participated in the 1960s civil rights movement. They believe that healthcare is a right not a privilege, so much they set up a healthcare clinic that was completely free for patients, they successfully recruited doctors and nurses who also believed that free, high quality healthcare should be completely free to everyone. They also support UBI, everyone being paid a living wage among other progressive ideological ideals.
My parents raised me and my two adopted black brothers to treat everyone the same way we would want to be treated, with respect, dignity, kindness, if the people we meet are clearly bigots after talking with them for a few conversations, it's definitely correct to disassociate with them.
I'm highly fortunate however to have met in my life, people who are socially progressive and are not conservatives, I feel that is one of the benefits of living in Baltimore, it has such a large group of social progressives and it outweighs any conservatives that lives in Baltimore.
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We are not different types of men and women. We are men and women. I'm not understanding what you're trying to say.
I think one of the things that bothers me about these types of terf defense discussions is they almost always trot out some variation of "back in my day we didn't have all these newfangled trans folk and non binary genders and concerns about pronouns around!"
And its like, you did though? You did. People who fit those definitions existed 20 years ago. They existed 200 years ago. They were just denied validation and these issues swept under the rug. And somehow these people either ignorant or complicit in this cultural repression are going to act like they're the victims of "change"??? Ugh.
And its like, you did though? You did. People who fit those definitions existed 20 years ago. They existed 200 years ago. They were just denied validation and these issues swept under the rug. And somehow these people either ignorant or complicit in this cultural repression are going to act like they're the victims of "change"??? Ugh.
I'm saying that cis women and trans women are both subsets in the group "women". Is that not the case? If not, i'm more than happy for you to explain it to me.
Unless you're saying that cis women are trans women, and vice versa?
What?
Trans women and cis women are the same type of women, in that our inherent sense of gender identity is 'woman'.
The adjectives that describe our assigned sex at birth don't put us into separate categories of women. Our genitals don't define our gender. Trans and cis women are both in the same category, simply because we identify as women.
User Banned (1 Week): Inflammatory point of comparison.
A British Shorthair and a Maine Coon are both cats, but they're not the same type of cat.
Likewise cis women and trans women are both women, and they're both as much a woman as one another, but there's obviously a delineation.
You need to back off. All your doing is using very fancy words to say “not real men/women” but trying to make it look like your not. Some real “seperate but equal” backhanded type bullshit.
But it's like an arbitrary delineation based on subjective principles that can come off as harmful. It's like saying "goth women and hipster women are different types of women" like, I guess?? But to whom? In what way? Are you sure you aren't just dividing people in order to try and rank them or exclude them or attach additional expectations to them? Every type of woman (or man) is different and unique, so we're all different "types". But when you emphasize a difference such as trans/cis it comes across as suspect. You wouldn't out-of-context divide women by medical history or sexual history... would you?
Trans woman are woman, no if or buts and your comment saying otherwise is just transphobic.
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Why the fuck is Hillary still trying to go under the spotlight? GTFO into the darkness.
God what an annoying woman. I always knew she was such a terrible person but no, everybody told me she isn't. God I wish it was someone else who became the primary instead of her.
God what an annoying woman. I always knew she was such a terrible person but no, everybody told me she isn't. God I wish it was someone else who became the primary instead of her.
No. I understand your frustration with Hillary, but Trump is far, far worse. It's not even debatable, and I say this as a Bernie Sanders supporter.
yeah sure the real threat is someone only mildly and passively transphobic who wouldn't really touch our situation when in power as opposed to someone who's already legislating us out of existance actively and is going to continue to do so but doesn't really get flak from centrists like you because it's expected of them and thus "normal"
y'all don't fuckin' know shit and your viewpoints hurt trans causes through some false equivalence bullshit just because you care more about Hillary Clinton than you do transphobia. fuck off
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A lot of people still think your gender is based on the sex you were assigned at birth. They don't understand your gender being different from that.
No, no i'm not. Both cis women and trans women are real women. I have never said or implied otherwise with my examples, and anyone trying to imply I said otherwise clearly has their own motivations for doing so, though I can't imagine what those might be
Their experiences are different yes. They are both women. Don't compare them to different breeds of cats.
What gets me is that they saw no problem whatsoever making that comparison.
you just compared us to different breeds of cats, you fucking buffoon. Would you have made the same comparison between black people and white people? No, because it's racist as shit, just like your comments was transphobic as shit.
I think KKBB's confusion is that there are the adjectives "trans" and "cis" and they're trying to understand why they're used when both trans-women and cis-women are the same. I think the dog thing was just an extraordinarily bad example
I'm bit afraid to step in to the discussion as this is a topic where I just should follow the discussion, listen and learn. But to the point what KKBB is seemingly trying to make, like shouldn't we acknowledge that there are some very different struggles transwomen (and also transmen) often have to go through in their lives, because of how society and other people treat them. Shouldn't I as a cis male recognize my priviledge, instead of pretending that I and transmen are on equal footing in this society.
Cats and dogs are commonly used as in examples of logic, especially in fallacious syllogism. I mean it's the most often used example of comparing to things besides apples and oranges.
Earlier FeistyBoots compared being trans to having a disease. But sure, accuse me of being willfully offensive.
Shes right in that total legal equality will take time. Its without question nobody should have to wait for equality but that's not how our Supreme Court will see it. In the arguments for gay marriage the justices weighed how prepared the nation was in regards to their view of homosexuality. At the time acceptance of homosexuality was at an all time high. I think it was more than 50%. Perhaps much higher but I cant recall. Whether you agree with this consideration is irrelevant because justices will find any legal reason to deny equality before going full Scalia and inventing bullshit to rest their ruling on.
In the arguments the Court recently heard, many justices were skeptical of granting transgendered persons inclusion in arguments in support of gays.
In a perfect world this would have been settled decades ago. The inequality flies in the face of the very nature of our Constitution. So conservative elements will use any reason to couch their biases in legal camouflage. Acceptance of transgender community among the nation as a whole will be one of their covers.
In the arguments the Court recently heard, many justices were skeptical of granting transgendered persons inclusion in arguments in support of gays.
In a perfect world this would have been settled decades ago. The inequality flies in the face of the very nature of our Constitution. So conservative elements will use any reason to couch their biases in legal camouflage. Acceptance of transgender community among the nation as a whole will be one of their covers.
I am not a centrists and I apologise for my badly worded post and after reflection I had removed it.
I think you just don't have the tact to handle this kind of discussion. Scientists can be the same way; logical but insensitive. Except, it's hard to even understand the logic when the comparison itself was so unnecessary.
People who don't understand who the real enemies are when it comes to people in power enacting transphobia are centrists to me. Though a better term might be cosplay leftists. They're certianly not allies, that's for sure. "Badly worded" doesn't exactly count as a retraction of the core intent of the post either, it's just a vague assertion that "That's not what I meant" when there are few other things one could mean with what you typed. A simple "I was wrong" would serve you better here.
And yes, I sound mean right now. But your post speaks to a trend I've been seeing on Era. People here don't actually give as much of a shit about transphobia as they claim to and use it as an excuse to dunk on someone they already disliked. For them, when Republicans do it (the people in power and actively trying to force us out of society), it's normal and to be ignored. And people who act like that? They REPULSE me. There are honestly no fucking words I can say to express how much I feel like I'm being used as a tool by some people here as opposed to being part of someone's causes they're actually fighting for. Republicans get a pass because it's only cool to hate Democrats for transphobia and that just tells me people don't give a shit about transphobia when it's actually important and hard to keep focus on the things that matter in the present.
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So you're throwing a trans woman talking about herself under the bus for a poorly chosen example (which she admitted) to defend yourself using a piss-poor comparison that you're doubling down on.
You're just... not a good person
Don’t cover your ass by attacking a Trans person, who was not comparing to it a disease at all.
30 minutes ago you told me to shut the fuck up. You are the bad person. You.
Only she did. Even I have enough to tact to see how immediately horrible that comparison is, no matter what Brainchild may think.
Take a step back and realize what a fuckin' asshole you're being right now. Alternately, if you don't want to: Fuck off.
I’m surprised I don’t see his name slashed with the words “banned” underneath.