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Hillary Clinton thinks Russia is grooming a current Democratic primary candidate to become a third-party candidate.
- Thread starter GrapeApes
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Can somebody explain to me how or why anti-war dems are supposed to support the kind of military presence and investment around the world required to deter Russia? I think it's more likely her isolationist foreign policy agenda coincidentally lines up with Putin wanting to destabilize NATO and democracies more so than her being an active Russian agent or some dumb shit.
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furthermore the "Hillary lost because she didn't campaign in WI/MI" complaint, while rooted in some truth, is a bit of a fallacy. If she'd flipped just those two states, it wouldn't have made the difference.
If she'd flipped Pennsylvania and Florida however - two states she DID campaign in - she would have won, even if she had lost Wisconsin and Michigan.
I'm ignorant for saying he's more of a lapdog to Israel and Saudi Arabia based off of his foreign policy?
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You're clearly ignorant based on your posts in this thread. You're also bad at the bit of disingenuous framing you just attempted. Pathetically bad.
Especially the idea that Gabbard is a frontrunner. In what polls?
User Warned: Conspiratorial rhetoric
You say this as if 95% of the party isn't a corporate Democrat and it's ok for Dems to publicly out members who aren't to the center enough. Meanwhile, you have Dem leadership (Biden) being caught red handed actually dealing and taking money from foreign governments but not publicizing any of itOh yeah, god forbid a "corporate dem" alienate Jill Stein from the Democratic party (a... person who isn't even a Democrat) ...
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His foreign policy is pretty much self-explanatory, judging my thoughts on his actions in regards to that does not make me ignorant. I'd welcome anyone arguing different if they want to talk about his foreign policy. You just want to call me names since something in my post hurt your feelings. That's sad.
So lets say Tulsi is an asset, which okay I can believe it (I'd like any evidence, though):
Can she spoil a GE? No.
Does she have any constituency? No.
How is she polling right now? 1-2%.
Would she syphon up votes exclusively from Dems? No.
So it is a non issue. But someone as high profile as HRC saying what she did without anything substantial is bad. The Dems just took a big L with the Müller Report because they put all their eggs into the Mansurian Candidate basket. They should stop with the spy thriller shit unless they have a smoking gun.
We all know this even though people act like they don't know this. She has her marching orders and will do her best to follow through. She is a beautiful woman with an armed forces background, and able to attack on the debate stage when needed. She can run as a third party.
That's true both suck, but also, overstating the power of Russia is also serving Putin's bidding.
America should defend itself against interference in elections, but this goes for any nation or non-elected corporate power operating within the United States.
I am of the opinion every election in the world has had interference from foreign powers dating back to Kennedy and beyond.
The thing about the Red Scare is not a question of if there were Communists, or people with aligning views with communists, or people who actually as spies for Russia during WWII living in the US and working in the government at many levels. All those things were true.
The folly of those years was corrupt failure of due process for political means and a complete overstatement and inflation of the USSR's reach for political means. It's the type of thing which makes horrific wars like Vietnam seem to be the right move, because you can't win votes if your opponent calls you a Pinko or says you are weak on the Reds.
Russia should not have this amount of influence over US affairs. Their entire purpose and goal is to re-gain influence. Putin's selling point is restoring Russian pride and glory after the USA neutered them with their own puppet ruler as the USA created regional alliances to prevent Russia from capitalizing on their Global advantages and previous reach.
I threw some $$ to her primary opponent, Kai Kahele.
If being anti-war means doing Putin's bidding by ceding interests to him, can we ever be anti-war then? or do we have to keep supporting militarily fighting for those interests until there is nothing left to fight for? This is the literal trade-off.
Except that Hillary is almost if not always proven right when say calls out things. She was right about everything regarding Trump and some people still don't wan to admit it.
It's the most extreme case of bitch crackers in the history of bitch crackers.
You're obviously ignorant given your expressed understanding of the Russian influence issue and Donald Trump. No one is being fooled by your attempt to move the goalposts here and making this about who the admin's foreign policy benefits more.
You don't even know enough to be properly embarrassed.
And I could list pages on pages of Trump doing more for countries like Saudi Arabia and Israel. Trump has also hurt Russia economically through sanctions, diplomatically through attempts to one-up on them with the Nordstream pipeline and energy deals with EU, militarily with attacks against the Assad government.
By definition that wouldn't make you a lapdog or in cahoot with anyone.
so are you just ignoring the stacks of receipts people are posting or are you trying to double your total post count in ten minutes or less?
and is your commitment here that the entire US and European intelligence apparatus has it all wrong but you know better?
You're just rambling about nonsense since your feelings got hurt. At least posters like Wraith posted links that would attempt to show otherwise (which I welcome).
If you have nothing else to say then stop quoting me.
Tulsi is *not* anti-war, nor is she an isolationist. She's for drone bombing campaigns and the so-called war on terror. You can even find an instance where she refers to herself as a war hawk.
This is the story of the 20th Century. People thought it would end with the Cold War.
... Okay? Care to point out one person saying the US/Israel/Saudi relationship is normal and totally cool?
I mean, the whole thing here is Tulsi pretty explicitly isn't anti-war based on her congressional record and shit like the statement her office gave on 9/11
I'll continue quoting your ignorance and attempts to move goal posts. I suspect others will too and we'll all be very busy. Cleaning up your bullshit is becoming quite an effort.
Sanctions that Trump is looking to take back and these new 7.5 billion EU tariffs also help Russia.
And while Trump definitely in cahoots with Israel and SA, he is more so with Russia even before his presidency. You made the original claim, the evidence was provided disproving your claim and now we await your receipts on how Trump isn't in cahoots/lap dog of Russia.
You mean carryovers from the previous administration and Congress? Trump has eased/lifted sanctions on Russia multiple times
Relatively anti-war/isolationist. Compared to the current administration or even Hillary for that matter. I should have been more clear.
so relatively anti-war that she thinks an ideology can be "defeated" through war, which is literally indistinguishable from something a Cheney would say
Well unless your blind can't you see that multiple users are quoting me? I'm trying to respond as fast and honest as I can.
I already responded to Wraith he posted a lot of links, unless I missed someone, was literally the only one that did something in that nature instead of personally attacking me or making a drive by post with no substance.
I should have been more clear with my first post, but given what I said by definition he's a lapdog for two other countries, and it isn't in the same fashion as Russia.
I personally believe he's in cahoots with Russia on a business level which I should have included. I just left it as "at least not politically".
But if you work against the interests of someone repeatedly, would that make you a lapdog? That I guess is my main gripe.
One thing does not simply wipe away the other. And Trump blatantly favoring KSA or Israel's agenda doesn't mean he doesn't do the same for Russia. And about those sanctions:
Trump lifts sanctions on firms linked to Russian oligarch Oleg Deripaska
Trump administration moves to return Russian compounds in Maryland and New York
Sure, sometimes he does things that are against Russia's interests, sometimes those things were forced on him by Congress, in retaliation for the very clear Russian interference in our elections, and their poisoning of Putin's enemies, yet Trump keeps on denying or prevaricating on these issues.
How'd you reach this conclusion?
I thought the report by republican Robert Mueller presented a different reality?
Read this and then read the first sentence again to make sense of it.
Is this what disinformation looks like?
You've setup a strawman; of course you can be anti-war. There's way more going on with Tulsi and Trump than that, and you surely know that. It's the totality of their alignment with Putin's interests that makes them stoogey. Tulsi's stooging is particularly dangerous because she's much smarter and far more finessed than Trump
Fair enough. I'll definitely look more into your links but I'll try to leave it hear since I cluttered the thread with posts, which would have been avoidable if I was more clear with my point.
How can you be anti-war without ceding interests or aligning interests with Putin in this situation though? Do you believe it can be done via sheer diplomacy?
Ben Carson, Andrew Yang, Herman Cain, and Rick Perry are just some examples of how running for president, when you have no shot at winning, can be extremely profitable. Whether that's because of speaking engagements, book deals, radio shows, being offered positions in the future administration, or being a CNN contributor. It is a career boosting move.
Well if it's a carryover that would still mean something if one didn't "break the cycle"?
I'm not going to pretend that I know why each sanctions was placed or lifted on Russia, but that was general so I'm not going to add anything more than that.
trump is absolutely compromised by Saudi Arabia- turkey and potentially Israel but those are small potatoes compared to how deeply indebted he is to Vladimir Putin- so I take zero issue with you suggesting he's compromised by those actors but dismiss with prejudice your baffling refusal to accept extremely well documented and investigated problems with his Russian alignment and to be blunt the fact that you're giving detailed responses on specific pipeline stories but ignoring the 2016 election or the multiple attempts to eliminate sanctions or weird obfuscation of Putin meetings or the condo and property laundering or the Deutschebank problems and more- is extremely bizarre.
it's like a mechanic who just jetted a carburetor and drained a radiator scratching his head at a lugnut.
It never ceases to amuse me how tilted Hillary makes people just by continuing to exist, especially when it's suggested that there were external forces that contributed to her loss.
Like, note that I said "contributed" because even as a Clinton supporter I acknowledge that there were many problems of her (or her campaign's) own making.
And these are often Sanders supporters in 2016 who will tell you (if you have the time) that the DNC's preference for Clinton was the sole reason he lost, despite the fundamental issue with his campaign writing off black votes in the South completely after getting blown out in South Carolina.
Like, note that I said "contributed" because even as a Clinton supporter I acknowledge that there were many problems of her (or her campaign's) own making.
And these are often Sanders supporters in 2016 who will tell you (if you have the time) that the DNC's preference for Clinton was the sole reason he lost, despite the fundamental issue with his campaign writing off black votes in the South completely after getting blown out in South Carolina.
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