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Ze_Shoopuf

Member
Jun 12, 2018
3,932
Wow.
It's beyond shitty of WB to be "ok with it", yet have no comment on the matter.

I think they suspect they made a bad call, and now hope the controversy just fizzles out.

But it's great to see Polygon giving it some airtime.
 
Nov 2, 2017
4,464
Birmingham, AL
Official Staff Communication
So this is a uniquely awful situation where both the creator of the IP and a senior producer on the game have unrepentant bigoted views.

The team has talked it over at length and as a result we've decided to implement a total ban on threads for promotional media for the game. This means there will be no threads for trailers or official announcements, no hype threads, no fluff pieces about its features. This functionally bans almost all threads leading up to release, unless there are major new developments about the controversy or something along those lines.

This is the first time we've done something like this and we consider this a very exceptional case. It's not just one bigoted game designer that made the difference here. JK Rowling's singular reach and influence, how closely that influence is tied to the Harry Potter IP, and what she chooses to do with that power, is a unique problem on top of this latest controversy.

We're going to revisit whether to have an OT much closer to the game's release. Learning from what happened with Cyberpunk, if there is an OT, it will have a text-only OP created by staff that lays out the controversy with the game and IP. The main reason to have an OT at all is the same one we've articulated before: Some minority members want a space to discuss the game's contents where they will not be shouted down by bigots.

For now though we're definitely not going to be platforming the marketing. If you see any threads for that stuff please report them. If you're unsure about a thread you want to post, please contact the staff first to check before creating it.

I'm glad the staff is finally taking this stance, I wish it was taken much earlier as Cyberpunks hype should have NEVER gotten to what it was here considering how much worse CDPR was as a whole, but I'm glad it's finally in place.

I was on board with this game for the longest time. I'm part of the community, and while I hate what JK Rowling is, the HP universe has meant far more and has brought more happiness to me and my fellow friends than what JKs hate can ever bring down. But now that that developer is part of the shit show too, I'm now willing to skip my dream HP game unless efforts are made to fix this issue.
 
Nov 4, 2017
7,348
I don't understand why the author won't just call rowling a terf when she clearly is
boogie2988_middle_by_digi_matrix-db3h3ud.gif


I assume it's because they want to have it both ways.
 

Kyuuji

The Favonius Fox
Member
Nov 8, 2017
31,977
I'm glad the staff is finally taking this stance, I wish it was taken much earlier as Cyberpunks hype should have NEVER gotten to what it was here considering how much worse CDPR was as a whole, but I'm glad it's finally in place.
Cyberpunk barely makes a dent relative to what Rowling has done and how she abuses the reputation, adoration and devoted audience the Harry Potter franchise affords her. She has impacted legislation, safety nets, brought trans children to self harm and suicide, poisoned discourse on bathroom access, equated transition to gay conversion therapy and not only helped block access to healthcare for trans youth, but also worked to deny all trans & NB people in the UK easier access to live as themselves. She's directly helped to bring an entire country's reputation of trans safety and acceptance down several notches over the past year.
 
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Sacul64

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,755
For those against the IP full stop, is there any coming back for HP or is it dead forever even if Rowling is completely severed from the property?

The situation seems pretty similar to Minecraft. Notch is a bigot that continues to spread hate and he'll be able to do that for the rest of his life because of the success of Minecraft. Sure he doesn't "directly" profit on the IP anymore, but he was able to make billions on it because Microsoft knew the lifetime worth of the property. Basically what I'm asking is, even if WB paid Rowling enough to leave the property forever, would that be enough?

With the context of who she is there are parts of the story that show it was writen by someone with her terrible thoughts so no. I'm done with harry potter despite it being a huge part of my life growing up.
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
For those against the IP full stop, is there any coming back for HP or is it dead forever even if Rowling is completely severed from the property?

That's never going to happen during her lifetime so it's a moot point. She will let go off profitting from Harry Potter when they pry it off her cold, dead hands. Hell, at this point I wouldn't be surprised if she set up some way for royalties from HP media to be donated to anti-trans organizations even after her death. :P

I get HP was a big part of a lot of people's childhoods but it's time to let it go.
 

SAINT_

Banned
Oct 4, 2020
460
I think cynthia nixon, who's son is transgender and a big HP said it best...

if you as a queer person or as a non-queer person have found a home in these stories, please don't let this take that away from you,' Nixon said. 'These are still your stories.'


You can still enjoy HP without giving JK a dime. However, I think branding anyone who likes and engages with the series as "trans and women haters" is uncalled for tho.

That being said, I completely understand those who want nothing to do with the series anymore.
 

Richietto

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,957
North Carolina
Definitely appropriate to ban this shit from the forum. There can only be so many bigoted layers to a video game or whatever before it becomes unacceptable to give it a spotlight. Fuck everything about this one.
 

Phellps

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,800
I think cynthia nixon, who's son is transgender and a big HP said it best...




You can still enjoy HP without giving JK a dime. However, I think branding anyone who likes and engages with the series as "trans and women haters" is uncalled for tho.

That being said, I completely understand those who want nothing to do with the series anymore.
Who is even saying that? Who are you taking to?
 

Parcas

Member
Dec 12, 2017
1,735
Is so sad how much HP was part of me growing up and how fucked up the author is, feel a bit shitty for having supported the harry potter world for so long, i destroyed my HP legos the other day and it felt good.
 

Phellps

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,800
someone earlier in the thread said members who defend this game should have tags that say "i hate trans people and women". I thought that was a bit much.
That was 20 pages ago, which is commendable for the fair chance you're reading the thread. But that was hardly a conversation point in this thread. With all the important discussion going on in the thread, I can't see why one would latch onto that post in particular. I'm not even sure they were serious to begin with.

But if by any chance you thought you needed to say that because of the members calling out those who say they are thinking about getting the game anwyays, then I'll just say most people here aren't even really trying to convince anyone to not buy the game. Just, in a nutshell, saying you can't call yourself a committed ally (as most people on Era like to do, such is the culture here) and support the work of a dangerous transphobe.

We've had this dance three months ago.
 

Bear Patrol

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,041
I think there's a misunderstanding about who I am and what I stand for. I can see eye rolls coming, but I want to ask that you take the following sentences with open eyes: I have raised thousands of dollars for trans charities/nonprofits. I lived in the U.S. South for a loooong time and did work supporting trans prisoners, aiming to end trans violence in communities and the workplace, supporting trans folks on college campuses, etc. I said it before, but I am gay and I have loads of trans friends, the point in bringing up is to say: I have seen a lot of the shit trans folks are going through and I know how much bullshit they're up against. I'm aware that in bringing up questions asking if we can spend the time between now and release interested in the game, all while criticizing the toxic personalities involved with or adjacent to it, could be viewed as an implicit or explicit endorsement of transphobia. I'm not perfect, and I'm always learning, but my point is that the questions I'm asking are NOT endorsements or an espousal of my beliefs. The onus is on me to prove that, but I will say it again: the question I'm asking in my original post here is not stating that I stand with Rowling or the lead dev or WB Games or whatever. If I made that murky, I apologize. But for the record: I am NOT SUPPORTING the game, I am also not boycotting it. I am just waiting for launch and reviews and to see if the game has any merit. Am I confident it will? Not really.
So what you're effectively saying is that you don't think the game will be good but, on the off chance that it is, you might consider purchasing and supporting it anyway?

OK, cool, that's definitely going to be the stance of a lot of people.

However, buying the game and financially supporting individuals who are vehemently against trans rights and cause actual harm to trans people isn't "offset" in any way by the work you've done for trans charities or the fact that you have trans friends. None of the previous good work you've done in any way excuses the wishy-washy, both sides arguments you've tried to roll out here. There doesn't appear to be an misunderstanding here.

If you want to buy the game, that's your choice and you will directly be supporting anti-trans bigots by doing so. If you feel like you deserve the ability to do that because you've done work to help trans people in the past, then that's on you and is a stance that any other moral person likely wouldn't support. However, if you want to sleep soundly at night and potentially support transphobic bigotry if you buy the game, don't hide behind the entire "I've done a lot of work for trans folk" shield. That's just gross.

Just be upfront about the fact that, whatever you past work in helping trans people, the one issue that might somehow lead to you buying or getting a game that will support transphobes is an $60-70 luxury video game.
 

oni-link

tag reference no one gets
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,014
UK
I think the site has the right stance. I don't generally like to see games banned and discussion pushed offsite, but in this case I think it's probably the right call

If people desperately want to play it, they can always get it used if they don't want to give JK money, I don't think most people have an issue with this approach

If you are planning to buy the game, then fine, but just consider that you don't need to announce that to everyone on Era. Doing so isn't really helpful and comes off as dismissive of the issues surrounding the game. No one is stopping you from getting the game and playing the game if you want, but it's worth taking the time to understand the issues around the game, and taking some time to educate yourself on why the things JK is saying are inaccurate at best, and harmful at worst

Ultimately buying the game and giving JK money isn't going to enhance her platform in any meaningful way, in the same way that if this game bombs it won't reduce her platform in any meaningful way, so do whatever you want, but don't get in the way of those who are doing all they can to fight against her harmful narrative.

Yeah maybe the game will be good, maybe it's your dream game, cool, good for you, but right now that's not what is important, and by framing the discussion in those terms you are by default side stepping what is important, and that's why the site has the right stance in this case
 

JJD

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,499
I think the site has the right stance. I don't generally like to see games banned and discussion pushed offsite, but in this case I think it's probably the right call

If people desperately want to play it, they can always get it used if they don't want to give JK money, I don't think most people have an issue with this approach

If you are planning to buy the game, then fine, but just consider that you don't need to announce that to everyone on Era. Doing so isn't really helpful and comes off as dismissive of the issues surrounding the game. No one is stopping you from getting the game and playing the game if you want, but it's worth taking the time to understand the issues around the game, and taking some time to educate yourself on why the things JK is saying are inaccurate at best, and harmful at worst

Ultimately buying the game and giving JK money isn't going to enhance her platform in any meaningful way, in the same way that if this game bombs it won't reduce her platform in any meaningful way, so do whatever you want, but don't get in the way of those who are doing all they can to fight against her harmful narrative.

Yeah maybe the game will be good, maybe it's your dream game, cool, good for you, but right now that's not what is important, and by framing the discussion in those terms you are by default side stepping what is important, and that's why the site has the right stance in this case
Well said!
 

ConVito

Member
Oct 16, 2018
3,084
I think the site has the right stance. I don't generally like to see games banned and discussion pushed offsite, but in this case I think it's probably the right call

If people desperately want to play it, they can always get it used if they don't want to give JK money, I don't think most people have an issue with this approach

If you are planning to buy the game, then fine, but just consider that you don't need to announce that to everyone on Era. Doing so isn't really helpful and comes off as dismissive of the issues surrounding the game. No one is stopping you from getting the game and playing the game if you want, but it's worth taking the time to understand the issues around the game, and taking some time to educate yourself on why the things JK is saying are inaccurate at best, and harmful at worst

Ultimately buying the game and giving JK money isn't going to enhance her platform in any meaningful way, in the same way that if this game bombs it won't reduce her platform in any meaningful way, so do whatever you want, but don't get in the way of those who are doing all they can to fight against her harmful narrative.

Yeah maybe the game will be good, maybe it's your dream game, cool, good for you, but right now that's not what is important, and by framing the discussion in those terms you are by default side stepping what is important, and that's why the site has the right stance in this case
Nicely put. Personally I'm handling this the same way I handled Cyberpunk, since both games were among my most anticipated titles of probably all time but I ultimately decided to never play either one after finding out what they represented. The question of whether or not I want to play them isn't even relevant anymore. All that matters is that neither my money nor my (positive) attention go towards bigots if I can help it.
 

Cenauru

Dragon Girl Supremacy
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,939
I don't get how people don't realize it costs nothing to just, not announce that they're still possibly getting the game while still trying to tell us that they support us and fighting back when told that they're not the arbiter of what is and isn't supportive of trans people. We're not gonna solve your cognitive dissonance for you!
 

Zips

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,913
Another mention...

Harry Potter and the Culture of Cancellation | Opinion | GamesIndustry.biz

Corrosive ideas need resistance. They need to be pushed back against. Ideally, those with power and influence would be clear in their condemnation of harmful ideologies instead of soft-peddling them as "personal opinions," as WBIE president David Haddad did last year with Rowling's anti-trans stances.

But even when people like Haddad don't step up, that doesn't mean the rest of us need to be quiet and accept noxious beliefs as valid public discourse. It just means we need to take a look at the ways we can push back on those ideas, to look at our own little corner of the world we do have control over and use it to say these ideas are not acceptable.

For Resetera, that means not allowing its community to be used as part of the usual AAA hype cycle for Hogwarts Legacy. I don't expect this to have a tangible impact on the game's sales, but I recognize it as a group of people doing what they can to send the message that these beliefs are unacceptable. Most of us don't have too many levers we can pull in order to improve things, but it's better to pull them than resign ourselves to powerlessness.
 

deepFlaw

Knights of Favonius World Tour '21
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,493
That article spends a little too long giving some credibility to "cancel culture" for my tastes, but turns it around strongly enough that it was good to read regardless.
 

Beth Cyra

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,903
That article spends a little too long giving some credibility to "cancel culture" for my tastes, but turns it around strongly enough that it was good to read regardless.
Won't lie about half way through I lost a good amount of the excitement I had going in with how they spent as long if not longer trying to explain how's and why's of Cancel culture when this isn't about that and never was.

Like if this guy could learn much like many others have and saw the damage done and recognize GG earnestly and honestly then many would forgive them and meet them half way.

Same with Rowling, many of us don't want her gone, only to have her see the active harm and hatred is causing so much pain and damage not just to TransWomen but TransGender people and especially children, those that had placed her hopes in her (though their is some Racism there and I don't want to over look that, so I have to at least mention it despite the Trans based article).

Women and TransPeople at large don't get a win by them trying to be understanding to us, we just get to live in peace and truly it's all we want.
 

12ozbeehouse

Member
May 16, 2018
144
I am glad that the staff have taken steps to help make this community and the community at large more welcoming. I hope that some of our community members in the media look at this decision and the gamesindustry.biz article and at least bring it up with their editors. There is no good reason this game with who made the ip and who is creatively in charge should be gracing the sites you write for. You make editorial decisions every day, and it should no game should be too big to not cover.
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,662
The IP is way too big to be affected by something like this, you need a video of people in the studio singing racist chants and even then who knows with the gaming having worldwide reach they would get away with it if the racism was ultra specific to a region.

Look at how for years we have all known that China has concentration camps but nothing happens? sadly is kind of the same thing
 

Ghostlight

Member
Nov 25, 2020
15
If people absolutely "need" to play the game, but don't want to support JKR or this guy*, why not wait a bit a buy a used copy?
Not that I will be buying new or used. I've never been big on the HP franchise. Nor do I feel the need to delve into it after all of JKR's BS.

*Ignoring the fact that the publisher doesn't get it's slice when you buy a game, but already got paid when the store bought it's 1000's of copies to sell to the public. For physical copies any way. Digital sales generally give a portion of the cost to the publisher/developer, depending on the digital store platform (a higher profit I might add, as it sells for the same price as a physical copy but doesn't include a cost on the publisher for the disk or packaging). Total sales are noted though and sent to the publisher.
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,625

Beth Cyra

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,903
Have Warner Bros been forced to comment on this yet?

Why would they knowingly employ a gamergater and mysoginist?


That was a well written article by BrendanSinclair . I like the proactive debunking inside.
No.

And it's very unlikely they will as they are commented on this, and in some ways they really can't.

If they say they stand by what they said last year then they are going to be scene as Anti-Feminist.

If they do and they fire the lead designer, then they are saying it's NOT okay to have the "opinion" of being Anti-feminist, however it IS acceptable to be Transphobic like Rowling.

So it's either Double Down, Ignore, or highlight that they support Transphobia.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,143
If people absolutely "need" to play the game, but don't want to support JKR or this guy*, why not wait a bit a buy a used copy?
Not that I will be buying new or used. I've never been big on the HP franchise. Nor do I feel the need to delve into it after all of JKR's BS.

*Ignoring the fact that the publisher doesn't get it's slice when you buy a game, but already got paid when the store bought it's 1000's of copies to sell to the public. For physical copies any way. Digital sales generally give a portion of the cost to the publisher/developer, depending on the digital store platform (a higher profit I might add, as it sells for the same price as a physical copy but doesn't include a cost on the publisher for the disk or packaging). Total sales are noted though and sent to the publisher.
The retailers definitely do not take on the entirety of risk of unsold copies. The dealings are not as simple as WB gets all of the revenue of whatever they manage to sell to retailers. And anyway, if you buy a copy of HP off the store shelf, and that store shelf is empty, the store is going to order more from WB or whatever distributor in-between. So your indirect support is there, however much of that you can tolerate.
 

Deleted member 56752

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
May 15, 2019
8,699
Seeing Colin do the same thing he always does (ignore the point of an article and message to relay a nascent contrary viewpoint) is upsetting to me. I liked his insight a long time ago, but I can more easily choose who I follow and there's an absolute ton of people who love and know games that don't do this childish stuff
 

Saucycarpdog

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,301
As lead designer, does he get a say whether the game has any sort of diversity?

Cause his response has made it abundantly clear he opposes any sort of progressivism in the game.
 

Ckoerner

Member
Aug 7, 2019
785
Official Staff Communication
So this is a uniquely awful situation where both the creator of the IP and a senior producer on the game have unrepentant bigoted views.

The team has talked it over at length and as a result we've decided to implement a total ban on threads for promotional media for the game. This means there will be no threads for trailers or official announcements, no hype threads, no fluff pieces about its features. This functionally bans almost all threads leading up to release, unless there are major new developments about the controversy or something along those lines.

This is the first time we've done something like this and we consider this a very exceptional case. It's not just one bigoted game designer that made the difference here. JK Rowling's singular reach and influence, how closely that influence is tied to the Harry Potter IP, and what she chooses to do with that power, is a unique problem on top of this latest controversy.

We're going to revisit whether to have an OT much closer to the game's release. Learning from what happened with Cyberpunk, if there is an OT, it will have a text-only OP created by staff that lays out the controversy with the game and IP. The main reason to have an OT at all is the same one we've articulated before: Some minority members want a space to discuss the game's contents where they will not be shouted down by bigots.

For now though we're definitely not going to be platforming the marketing. If you see any threads for that stuff please report them. If you're unsure about a thread you want to post, please contact the staff first to check before creating it.
Good call. Give them no quarter.
 

entrydenied

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
7,557
Any word on if he is still on the project or not? This game is really making it hard for itself with JK Rowling and now this guy.

I don't think WB thinks a few articles because of Resetera is a legitimate threat to this game's success. I really don't see him being removed at this point, considering they knew about his channel too.
 

Deleted member 27751

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 30, 2017
3,997
It would be pie in the sky dreaming to think Era has that much impact on one of the bigger IPs in the world. It is disappointing yes, because it means Warner Bros. is complicit in the encouragement of platforming these bigots, but don't try to campaign in the hopes Era's reach will push through. We have barely any reach when it comes to actual impact, as we are just like any enthusiast forum a niche market. Doesn't mean we should stop educating and discussing topics like this, because one extra person learning is better then none.
 

Sacul64

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,755
Is it just me or does it feel like seeing people bringing up witch hunts is a shot at this topic?

www.resetera.com

PlayStation - " The PS5 version of Oddworld: Soulstorm is one of your PlayStation Plus games for April!"

I remember reading about the games back in the 90's, these games are actually really grim. If you sit down and read what he was talking about and what the game was about it really did open the eyes a bit. Oddworld closed their doors because they got fucked by Microsoft. Literally the company...

Apparently now just simply asking if the person in charge of a small game has toxic views is a witch hunt and people would be worried about Era as a government.
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,487
Is it just me or does it feel like seeing people bringing up witch hunts is a shot at this topic?

www.resetera.com

PlayStation - " The PS5 version of Oddworld: Soulstorm is one of your PlayStation Plus games for April!"

I remember reading about the games back in the 90's, these games are actually really grim. If you sit down and read what he was talking about and what the game was about it really did open the eyes a bit. Oddworld closed their doors because they got fucked by Microsoft. Literally the company...

Apparently now just simply asking if the person in charge of a small game has toxic views is a witch hunt and people would be worried about Era as a government.
When their post started with
"Look I'm by no means alt-right nor a trump supporter or Pro Gamergate/Anti SJW or whatever, but..."
I didn't bother with the rest.