Ah good to know. Regardless, the HK issue was only minor for me (I did commit to 103% completion afterall!), So if DS is great in the gameplay or exploration department, I'm sure I'll have a great time.
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Hollow Knight |OT| Cute Insects That Just Want to Burrow Into Your Heart | Now on Switch
- Thread starter Dancrane212
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I finished the game this week and i'm sure this is the best metroidvania style game i have ever played. It's amazing from beggining to end. The world/lore is great, too. Loved finding out what happened at Hallownest and the motivations behind most characters. So much cool stuff to discover.
I saw the body and I dream nail everything lol like too much sometimes.
Nothing happened to I went back to the room on the left I believe and saw the torches lit.
I hit them and saw some red stuff go up and cutscene happened
then the tent was at the start area.
Nah - I am completely with the OP on this one.
I am enjoying Hollow Knight a lot on a gameplay level but the storytelling is deeply lacking. I've played this game for hours - hours - and I don't know who I am or why I'm there or what my ultimate goal here is.
I'm not saying those answers don't come and aren't interesting. I'm not through with the game so it wouldn't surprise me, based off the lore droplets I've gotten so far, if the background on your little man in satisfying and well done. But I've stumbled through this dark labyrinth for a long time without having any idea who I am or why I'm there, and that's pretty bad form.
But the comparison to Sonic and Mario and Metroid and Contra don't track. All of those games give you a much stronger up-front character motivation and clearly and concisely answer the "WHY?" of your character and what's driving them.
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OK I mean if that's the direction you wanna take this discussion fair enough. I'm not at all convinced you're actually asking this in good faith, but in case you are:
Hollow Knight goes out of its way to place this character in the world. People speak to you. People speak to you about not going into the place you keep going into. It is designed to get you to ask questions about what's motivating your character, and doesn't bother answering them at all at least in the game's first many hours. I'm not through the game so I don't know if they're ever answered. If they are, but later, or more slowly, it is completely valid to criticize the pace of the game's storytelling.
Tetris is abstract and doesn't make any effort to place the player in a world. You're not a character. The blocks are not invading aliens to be cleared. You are not trapped in the bottom of a well.
Games are criticized according to their intent. I've never once considered the motivation of my Ninja Man in N+. He is an excuse for the mechanical platforming action to take place, and the game makes clear through its design that he doesn't matter. If the game had a GLADOS-like AI taunting him upon death, or if stages had secret areas, I might start questioning who he is and where he is. And the game's handling of that character motivation, storytelling pace and world-building would now be now in bounds.
A good example of this in action is how you saw way way more people questioning the nature of Mario and his adventures once we got to explore New Donk City. The structure of the games (and their explorable spaces) prior to Odyssey never really invited people to give it as much consideration. When Mario is bopping around Dinosaur Island or Outer Space his adventures are an abstraction. But put him in a more mundane, recognizable, realistic setting and his platforming antics can begin to feel a little bit more strange and even somewhat unsettling. Even though the gameplay is the same. New Donk City, by its design, invited players to question Mario's quest and to say "maybe this is a little bit weird..." in a way that was less appropriate before.
Incidentally, puzzle game makers, like Tetris, get to decide for themselves which way they want their game to be presented. With a deeply-entwined, well-executed story (Braid), or a more so-so story (The Witness), or a great story (Portal). Portal could have been a collection of abstract puzzles, and as long as Valve stuck to that, no one would be asking themselves "But who is holding the Portal Gun...?"
(This is not 100% cut-and-dry BTW. Even without GLADOS or the ratman environmental storytelling in Portal, things like the death-lasers, respawning mechanics, elevators, and so-on may still have invited some questions about Portal's nature. But I think my key point here still tracks).
Anyway, back to Hollow Knight. As long as people in this world keep talking about how dangerous and foolhardy this place is, and making oblique hints to me and my nail, it's completely valid to knock the game for a lack of a single screen of introductory text that explains that You Are a Hollow Knight, and that that means X in this world. You've come to this land to seek your fortune / uncover your history / because it is here - and then the game opens.
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Ok, maybe Tetris was a bad example.
Still, I don't understand why the game neess to be so direct with its storytelling. The game can start with mysterious circumstances, as it does, and allow the player to piece it together as they explore and talk with NPCs.
For me, the motivating factor from a narrative standpoint is to solve the mystery. I don't need that spelled out for me at the onset.
You are a knight
You are drawn to this mysterious place, as are many others seeking some fortune or fate.
You must have a destiny within.
This much is made clear before you even enter the well.
Then you find the black egg and the "Kill Mother Brain" imperative seems to be getting within. But I don't need to know that when I start the game.
I'm currently playing Dead Cells and it's pretty much the same deal as Hollow Knight and other games influenced by the Souls series. I don't know why I'm here or what my goal is but I don't need any more motivation than "kill stuff, get stronger."
I found the Path of Pain accidentally last night while looking for a way to skip past some of the annoying saws in the White Palace.
Took me a good four hours to beat I reckon, and then there was no reward other than a journal entry! Satisfying to beat it though. I still have a couple of charms to find before I go after the final boss.
Took me a good four hours to beat I reckon, and then there was no reward other than a journal entry! Satisfying to beat it though. I still have a couple of charms to find before I go after the final boss.
Hollow Knight: Gods & Glory is now Godmaster!
http://teamcherry.com.au/hollow-knight-gods-glory-is-now-godmaster/
http://teamcherry.com.au/hollow-knight-gods-glory-is-now-godmaster/
i liked the old name better, but it's understandable that they didn't want to get into legal trouble with some big mobile publisher.
they have a scary name too, WARGAMING, all caps
i hope i'm done with the okami by then, i've only just finished okami 1 yesterday. i want to get back to hollow knight as soon as this update drops.
I guess I really don't get it. To me, being a wanderer/adventurer exploring a scary new world (so long as that world is actually fun and interesting to explore, of course) is just more compelling than "go save the princess". I couldn't care less about narratives in a game like this, the more minimalistic/less intrusive the better. As for needing motivation, just being the lone adventurer on a mysterious journey is plenty enough for me, and if they threw in "go save the princess" or "kill the bad guy" in there (without subverting that in any way) I'd find the experience worse, not better.
As long as you get the enjoyment out of the gameplay, you can really like Hollow Knight without requiring more of a background plot. That applies to myself as I've logged 55 hours. I love Metroidvanias (the exploration, the upgrades, and the secrets), and so that kept me going. It's the biggest Metroidvania I've ever played, and the areas are beautiful connected.
Having said that, I will always love Ori and the Blind Forest more than this game. That game made me cry in the first 10 min, and the story arc had me as engaged as the gameplay itself.
I am at about 90% complete and I only have the final
Boss to face. I wanted to get the true ending but I've been stuck in the White Palace for several days. Should I give up and just go to the boss and not get the true ending or should I persevere? I'm at the part where you have to walk through all the blades and it's really hard.
Boss to face. I wanted to get the true ending but I've been stuck in the White Palace for several days. Should I give up and just go to the boss and not get the true ending or should I persevere? I'm at the part where you have to walk through all the blades and it's really hard.
I hit about 70 hours before calling it quits, only reached 80% completion though. I didn't use any guides when I was looking for stuff, and generally sucked at the more challenging boss encounters. Definitely got my money's worth for $15 though.
Come back after a few nail upgrades.
If you really just want to do it now use the wall jump to avoid the large spray attack, only go in for a few swipes at a time to avoid his melee, heal if you get a chance during his single projectiles. It's been a while since I fought him so sorry if that's not in depth enough but it's all I've got. Maybe use quick focus or baldurs shell for charms
I can't remember if I had any reach extenders, but there's a way to time your hits. The side claws come out with regularity, and so you have to hit and immediately step back. The last part to get used to is jumping over it when it launches the big lava blast. When you can see it's building up for a big blast, time your jump and you'll clear it easily to keep hitting from the other side.
In short, learn to time your hits to avoid the side claws and your jumps over it, and you'll win easy peasy.
This last point is key when assessing this game. For all my critiques, it's hands down the best value for $15 spent. Just an unbelievable amount of content. Especially so when you consider how small the dev team is.
Other games on the Switch that have cost less have not delivered in the same way.
Impressive. That's basically the same loadout I had when I did this with my spell build (more Grubsong and I wasn't overcharmed), it's really good, spells non-stop.
I am stuck.Yet again. Send help!
Thanks!
I've got to the Spider village and got into a nest with loads of tunnels. There is a save point in there and then you drop down to the entrance area of the other pod. So... now where do I go? I assume there is a boss here?
Thanks!
Alright. Zote and Trial of the Fool down. All that's left is NKG, and I'll be ready to beat the game for the first time.
After about 50 hours I decided to go ahead and beat the game for the first time normally. Man I thought I'd looked and poked just about everywhere, but lol, no. Completion percentage was just at 76%. When I have time I'm jumping back in to hunt for the rest of the stuff and hidden bosses, dream bosses, hidden areas, trials, items and better endings.
This game is so fucking awesome, and easily my favorite game of the year so far. I still can't believe it was only $15 because I would have paid the full $60 no problem.
This game is so fucking awesome, and easily my favorite game of the year so far. I still can't believe it was only $15 because I would have paid the full $60 no problem.
Just patience.
When he shoots out his large spray, jump up over him as the time it takes to fall is enough for you to evade, he's also immobile after he's done this so swipe down two or three times for easy hits.
Only try and get a single hit in on his side, those claws have surprising reach and given the dodging of his orange spit you'll likely be knocked back into even more damage.
When he jumps he will jump again (and on occasion a third time too), I'd recommend not even bothering to approach him right after jumping because of this, he's more vulnerable attacking normally or by swiping down from above.
Wall jumping is your friend here if you want a brief moment to breathe if he's got you stuck in one part of the arena.
And, like as been mentioned, the nail upgrades go a long way here.
I've gotten the three main endings and have done most of the content. The only thing left is Grimm Troupe. I had a quick question about it.
I read there are two endings, so I wanted to know if I could see the two outcomes one after the other without getting locked out via a save or what have you. If I go to see Grimm after I collect all the fires, will that hard-lock me from talking to the turncoat?
Also will I still be able to get the unbreakable charms when the Troupe storyline is done?
Also will I still be able to get the unbreakable charms when the Troupe storyline is done?
I don't think you can see them both, but you can still upgrade your charms if you choose to fight the boss. I'm not sure about the other patu, since I didn't take it.
Both endings are exclusive, meaning that you can only get one per playthrough. They both net you a different charm and in the turncoat option you miss out on a boss.
As for Divine, she will disappear immediately if you banish the troupe taking any charm in her possesion with her, but if you beat Grimm instead, she will hang around until you upgrade all 3 charms.
As for Divine, she will disappear immediately if you banish the troupe taking any charm in her possesion with her, but if you beat Grimm instead, she will hang around until you upgrade all 3 charms.
Hope this helps.
Darn.
But just to be sure...
Neither option affects the other bugs in Dirtmouth, does it?
Just want to make sure there isn't a Souls-style "Oops, all dead NPCs!" outcome.
Just want to make sure there isn't a Souls-style "Oops, all dead NPCs!" outcome.
Nope. The other bugs in dirtmouth are safe.
Just, if you choose to banish the troupe, be sure to get all three unbreakable charms and
before going through with it.
Just, if you choose to banish the troupe, be sure to get all three unbreakable charms and
speak with Leg eater
before going through with it.
Grimmchild is replaced with a completely different charm, Carefree Melody. Also you get that 1% completion without having to fight NKG lol.
This game is stunning, best thing I've played since BotW.
I thought I was out after beating The Radiance but it sucked me back in, managed to beat the Path of Pain after a few hours of suffering yesterday.
Got a few flights coming up so might try and beat the Grimm Troupe stuff before the new DLC arrives. I hear it's possible to choose a path where I don't get to fight the super hard boss (NKG), is it going to be obvious which path I should pick to get to fight him?
I thought I was out after beating The Radiance but it sucked me back in, managed to beat the Path of Pain after a few hours of suffering yesterday.
Got a few flights coming up so might try and beat the Grimm Troupe stuff before the new DLC arrives. I hear it's possible to choose a path where I don't get to fight the super hard boss (NKG), is it going to be obvious which path I should pick to get to fight him?
If you just follow the main quest line, it'll lead to the fight. You'll have to go out of your way to get the other resolution.
I just got the bad ending with 107%. Looks like there's tons of content that doesn't even count toward completion.
I just got the bad ending with 107%. Looks like there's tons of content that doesn't even count toward completion.
Holy shit
Man, I played the entire game as a nailmaster and didn't really tinker around with spells too much, but it looks like I totally should have played around with spells more
As someone who is really early in the game... how does he use spells so often? I can only use the first spell twice before I've run out of power - and I only get the power back by hitting baddies with my nail?
I feel dumb for not thinking of pogoing the colosseum spikes... so much damage could've been avoided lol
Spell build is really fun and from my experience most of the game was much easier using it.
Your normal Soul Vessel allows you to use 3 spells (each one costs 33%, same for healing). He upgraded it twice at this point (see the two white balls on the left side of the soul meter), which gives him more 66% max soul.
He also has two important charms for soul management, Soul Eater (gives you more 8% soul on hit, a normal hit gives you 11% soul so with this he gets 19% every time he hits a enemy) and Spell Twister (which reduces the soul cost for spells, instead of 33% they only use 25%). He also has Shaman Stone equipped, this only changes the damage from spells (33% more damage for two of the spells and 50% more for the other one).
Spell build is really fun and from my experience most of the game was much easier using it.
Your normal Soul Vessel allows you to use 3 spells (each one costs 33%, same for healing). He upgraded it twice at this point (see the two white balls on the left side of the soul meter), which gives him more 66% max soul.
He also has two important charms for soul management, Soul Eater (gives you more 8% soul on hit, a normal hit gives you 11% soul so with this he gets 19% every time he hits a enemy) and Spell Twister (which reduces the soul cost for spells, instead of 33% they only use 25%). He also has Shaman Stone equipped, this only changes the damage from spells (33% more damage for two of the spells and 50% more for the other one).
I forgot this game is only 15 bucks. Most indies (with way less content) cost at least 20 . And we've been getting free updates for over a year now.
Damn.
Yep, it's crazy how much content this game has and from a small indie dev no less.
It's hard not to expect as much content from other games at the same price point now. I'm not buying Dead Cells until it's steeply discounted because of that; and the issues the devs said won't be fixed until November at the earliest.
Lol this is how I feel too. I played through most of the game with very minimal use of spells, and then I see speedruns that pull shit like this and I'm like "what have I been doing?"
First off, I think this person is using a charm that reduces spell cost. Then another charm that increases the amount of soul you get from hitting enemies. Along with that, the person uses the spinning slash nail art (a special charge skill that you may not have yet in early game) which hits multiple times. The player starts off some waves with the spinning slash charged up, and then lets all hits in the spin hit the first enemy that comes out, gaining a lot of soul power in the process.
Finally, the dream nail (a midgame item) gives you one-third or so of the soul meter each time you hit an enemy with it. You see the player using this on certain enemies that don't need to be killed, like those big centipedes.
After that, it's a matter of good placement and efficient spell usage. A lot of those fireballs are placed in a way so that they hit everything.
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