Hollow Knight Switch's Input Lag bums me out

[lordlad]

Perfect using the Unity it is not,
For better engine there are lots.
The input lag is a bummer,
Switch patch perhaps in the summer?

 

[Lylo]

As far as i know, Nintendo doesn't allow games on their systems with vsync off, so there's nothing the devs can do here.

 

[CobaltBlu]

It's worth noting that even with vsync on with Switch the input delay is similar to comparable modern games. There's no reason to attack the devs for not overcoming an engine issue when the performance is solid anyway.

 

[LinkSlayer64]

Perfect using the Unity it is not,
For better engine there are lots.
The input lag is a bummer,
Switch patch perhaps in the summer?

Click to shrink...

Did you read any of the thread? The games run the exact same on vsync, which is what the developer targets. And this is comparable to other games released nowadays.
Also, can we stop with the Unity rhetoric? Tons of good games have been built on the engine.

 

[SinCityAssassin]

Perfect using the Unity it is not,
For better engine there are lots.
The input lag is a bummer,
Switch patch perhaps in the summer?

Click to shrink...

There once was a thread online
Input, one felt, was not on time
The devs here all the same
V-sync is to blame
And yet to the devs he would whine.

 

[Hero]

With this fast becoming the premiere HK thread on Era, we thought it worth quickly popping in.

Our input timing is basically as fast as Unity (which applies vsync on Switch) allows. Hollow Knight was built and tested around very similar timings. On PC we test with vsync on, because we know many players want/use the feature. That means the game, all its challenges and player motion, were designed from the start around the response times players on Switch are experiencing (barring a particularly laggy TV).

Worth also stating: There are wind-up frames in the slash (before the white slash frames appear), as the Knight reaches back for its nail, and the jump still has an initial slow start and rise, which is intended to give weight to it. Also, our edge leniency (That grace period as you leave a ledge but can still jump) is much tighter than most platformers, which can surprise new players.

On a joyful note, thanks so much to everyone on Era who's picked up the game for Switch! William and I have loved following the OT, and it's been super motivating for us in the midst of our intense Gods & Glory crunch.

Click to shrink...

It's sad that this thread has blown up to the point where you had to come in and explain the inner workings of the game. Enjoying the game immensely and just beat the game tonight. Working on the extra content now.

Okay so basically, "it's Unity's fault". Have you guys thought about raising the issue with Unity dev support and see if they can possibly provide a solution/fix, instead of taking the lazy route of not investigating it and pretending like it was intended all along? The PC version doesn't seem to suffer from the same issue, so why not challenge Unity dev support on their implementation? Maybe they can even provide a fix?

Click to shrink...

At this point you have gone way beyond being an immature, spoiled brat and are a full-fledged asshole on the internet. What is your development experience that you can spout these accusations? Do you even have any? Or you just an armchair developer that can offer nothing but criticism?

 

[lordlad]

There once was a thread online
Input, one felt, was not on time
The devs here all the same
V-sync is to blame
And yet to the devs he would whine.

Click to shrink...

Perfect apology i must confess,
For I do not know v-sync's to blame.
The devs i apologise with haste,
Switch on my face of shame.

 

[FSLink]

Except all they've done is denial. I'm trying to be constructive but it's really hard considering everyone's attitude. I don't consider their explanation reasonable unless they've actually contacted Unity dev support and see if anything can be done about it. From their response it seems like they haven't. Team cherry: have you contacted Unity dev support to see if anything can be done/fixed about their vsync implementation?

Click to shrink...

lmfao wtf is this. Please read your posts out loud and realize the only person not being reasonable is you. Why on earth would they need to ask Unity dev support when the amount of input lag is very reasonable AND they designed their game around it? Are you serious?

 

[darknil]

Well, yesterday I was playing docked with a pro controller, got serious input lag during a boss fight which got me killed. Before I only played on handheld mode.

Didn't think it was the game's fault, I blamed it on Bluetooth interference. Which obviously is also bad.

 

[Deleted member 8166]

With this fast becoming the premiere HK thread on Era, we thought it worth quickly popping in.

Our input timing is basically as fast as Unity (which applies vsync on Switch) allows. Hollow Knight was built and tested around very similar timings. On PC we test with vsync on, because we know many players want/use the feature. That means the game, all its challenges and player motion, were designed from the start around the response times players on Switch are experiencing (barring a particularly laggy TV).

Worth also stating: There are wind-up frames in the slash (before the white slash frames appear), as the Knight reaches back for its nail, and the jump still has an initial slow start and rise, which is intended to give weight to it. Also, our edge leniency (That grace period as you leave a ledge but can still jump) is much tighter than most platformers, which can surprise new players.

On a joyful note, thanks so much to everyone on Era who's picked up the game for Switch! William and I have loved following the OT, and it's been super motivating for us in the midst of our intense Gods & Glory crunch.

Click to shrink...

all those things are what makes this game feel so good to me. it really is a great game.

 

[mutantmagnet]

Except all they've done is denial. I'm trying to be constructive but it's really hard considering everyone's attitude. I don't consider their explanation reasonable unless they've actually contacted Unity dev support and see if anything can be done about it. From their response it seems like they haven't. Team cherry: have you contacted Unity dev support to see if anything can be done/fixed about their vsync implementation?

Click to shrink...

They don't have to be beholden to unity team and the same thing goes in the other direction.

If enough dev teams raise the same concern maybe Unity team will do something about it but they won't do it because you are throwing a tantrum.


Meanwhile the devs you called lazy already addressed the issue in their own way by making sure the encounters are tuned with the input limitations in mind.

So maybe you can put in the effort and level up to the proficiency other people have displayed by advancing in the thread.

Hell I'm currently dealing with a left stick drift issue and I'm progressing.

 

[AtomicShroom]

It's sad that this thread has blown up to the point where you had to come in and explain the inner workings of the game. Enjoying the game immensely and just beat the game tonight. Working on the extra content now.



At this point you have gone way beyond being an immature, spoiled brat and are a full-fledged asshole on the internet. What is your development experience that you can spout these accusations? Do you even have any? Or you just an armchair developer that can offer nothing but criticism?

Click to shrink...

I won't say where I work at, but mods can see, and maybe can attest. I work in dev, and I know what this is. My goal is not to cause grief, but for the devs of Hollow Knight to realize that their game is lacking in one crucial technical aspect that is player control, and I know what I'm talking about. But it seems everyone here has crucified me on cross of ignorance.

I will produce more slomo videos in days to come to get my point across, because I believe input lag is a disease on the whole gaming spectrum. Whichever side you stand on, I can only hope that you remain critical of input latency because it's the only reason I'm holding on for dear life to my CRT HDTV no matter how blurry the edges are, no matter how much fine lines flicker, no matter how much space it takes, only because it provides me with the truest of gaming experience: lagless.

 

[jb1234]

I won't say where I work at, but mods can see, and maybe can attest. I work in dev, and I know what this is. My goal is not to cause grief, but for the devs of Hollow Knight to realize that their game is lacking in one crucial technical aspect that is player control, and I know what I'm talking about. But it seems everyone here has crucified me on cross of ignorance.

I will produce more slomo videos in days to come to get my point across, because I believe input lag is a disease on the whole gaming spectrum. Whichever side you stand on, I can only hope that you remain critical of input latency because it's the only reason I'm holding on for dear life to my CRT HDTV no matter how blurry the edges are, no matter how much fine lines flicker, no matter how much space it takes, only because it provides me with the truest of gaming experience: lagless.

Click to shrink...

Hey, you do you, I guess. After your atrocious behavior earlier, I doubt many will care about your upcoming videos. I think the real tragedy here is that your obsessive crusade is preventing you from enjoying one of the best games ever made.

 

[Mzo]

Woof, I don't like where this is going.

I'll use this opportunity to say that Hollow Knight is a fantastic game that plays great on the Switch.

 

[LossAversion]

Okay so basically, "it's Unity's fault". Have you guys thought about raising the issue with Unity dev support and see if they can possibly provide a solution/fix, instead of taking the lazy route of not investigating it and pretending like it was intended all along? The PC version doesn't seem to suffer from the same issue, so why not challenge Unity dev support on their implementation? Maybe they can even provide a fix?

Click to shrink...

Wow, fuck off. Jesus christ. Accusing the devs of being lazy AND lying at the same time. Real classy.

 

[Deleted member 8791]

Can't believe he somehow got the devs themselves to respond and basically called them lazy as response. Crazy. Really enkoying the game btw, Team Cherry!

 

[Deleted member 41178]

Just wanted to post and say that this game really surprised me and is fast becoming a contender for my GOTY.

Fantastic game.

 

[wrowa]

Okay so basically, "it's Unity's fault". Have you guys thought about raising the issue with Unity dev support and see if they can possibly provide a solution/fix, instead of taking the lazy route of not investigating it and pretending like it was intended all along? The PC version doesn't seem to suffer from the same issue, so why not challenge Unity dev support on their implementation? Maybe they can even provide a fix?

Click to shrink...

I don't want to dogpile on you, but please keep in mind Team Cherry is a two man studio. Hollow Knight is an incredibly well-designed and lenghty game that's among the best Metroidvanias out there — calling these people lazy couldn't be more ridiculous. In all likelihood, they put an ridiculous amount of hours into the development of this game. Even if you don't agree with their decisions — and that's fine obviously, you're entitled to your opinion — be nice and respectful about it.

That being said, even if they didn't investigate the input lag issues further: when developing most of the game basically on your own, you need to make difficult decisions about priorities and if they came to the conclusion that input lag is a lower priority issue that can be designed around, then that's a decision they had to make. A day only has this many hours, you can't do everything.

 

[Arcus Felis]

[...]

Click to shrink...

And I'm out. I was thankful to you for bringing light on something (minor) I experienced, but your disrespectful attitude (needless hyperboles and calling out the devs) poisoned the very thread you made.
We have answers from the devs themselves, who were kind enough to reply despite your tone. Devs who made a fantastic game, and I am genuinely thankful for the amazing experience they crafted.

This thread does deserve to die.

 

[guek]

Good thing I never buy Switch ports of indie games. It's become pretty common for them to have lag input.

Click to shrink...

Citation needed

Re:Team Cherry

The game is a blast. I don't want to put it down!

 

[Morrigan]

I don't want to dogpile on you, but please keep in mind Team Cherry is a two man studio. Hollow Knight is an incredibly well-designed and lenghty game that's among the best Metroidvanias out there — calling these people lazy couldn't be more ridiculous.

Click to shrink...

Seriously. That's why "lazy dev" rhetoric is so damn toxic and ridiculous. Team Cherry are amazingly talented and I am in awe of the fact that they, along with Ska Studios (Salt and Sanctuary), are duos who produced amazingly polished, high quality, beautiful HD Metroidvanias with tons of content and basically put a lot of larger teams to shame.

In any case, the devs have answered the question of the original topic, so there's not much else to discuss anymore.

 

[Fairy Godmother]

The discussion has run its course. OP's questions have been answered by the developers.