Hollow Knight Switch's Input Lag bums me out

[Dphex]

Is it some kind of new meta first world problem ?

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seems so...

the far badder thing coming from this thread is, that people already say "uhh, no ,there is input lag, no buy" when they are reading the thread title...

but it isn´t hindering the gameplay in any point...you could make such a thread for every game because the input lag in HK is on normal level for a game, at least for 99% of all people. I´ve played games with tremendously bigger input lag, for me it isn´t noticable at all in HK...

OP was already bringing this up in the OT and the review thread and the ratio is really more on the "i don´t notice it" side...

 

[Pagusas]

Where the hell are you people getting your reference points from?

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This chart explains why I couldn't play GTA4 on console because it felt like every input was delayed. Ran it on my PC at 60fps and it felt soooooo much better

 

[Jaded Alyx]

Where the hell are you people getting your reference points from?

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lolwut

This is absolutely untrue. Not even fighting games get that low. Inform yourself.

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wait till OP finds out most NES and SNES games played on real hardware on a CRT have 2-3 frames of input lag

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I went and actually looked this up against other contemporary platformers:



4 frames of input lag for 3D World



4 frames of input lag for NSMB Wii U

https://twitter.com/noodalls/status/856287230217682944

(direct link since I can only apparently post two peices of media)

4 frames of input lag for Mario Maker

If Hollow Knight's input delay is sub 70ms(which admittedly is up for debate since skittzo just posted a video and not necessarily a frame-by-frame breakdown), then that means it's probably somewhere between 4-5 frames of input lag.

Basically, at worst, 1 extra frame of input lag, and makes anyone complaining about 70ms being "horrible" or "high" absolutely ridiculous unless they want to go to town on these three other games.

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But the input lag is "ungodly" so this can't be true.

 

[treble]

It's like my boy Billy Shakespeare says: much ado about nothing.

Don't miss out on this wonderful game!

 

[Łazy]

We're not allowed to play third party on the switch and now that.

Didn't know rules were that harsh for video games.

 

[Glio]

Annoying input lag is what Metal Slug have on PS4.

Hollow Knight goes perfectly.

 

[jett]

We're not allowed to play third party on the switch and now that.

Didn't know rules were that harsh for video games.

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Guessing some people are affectedly greatly by placebo.

 

[jb1234]

I played both the PC and Switch versions and haven't noticed anything like that.

 

[Janna OP]

dunno if the op knows this but all games have input lag. 4 frames is like the norm in that regard lol

 

[Deleted member 10737]

so it seems like the input lag is completely fine and around the same (or less) than most other games. i wonder what the reason was that it bothered op so much. maybe just the fact that the jump is different comapred to a lot of other platformers, there's an intentional delay to convey the weight of the character
i hope no one was turned off of buying the game just because of this thread, i'm close to 50 hours in and it's a fantastic port. if the input lag was horrible some of the harder sections and boss fights would have been impossible but that never was the case

 

[KLoWn]

If there indeed is any input lag in Hollow Knight it's so brief it's not noticeable.

Source: Me. I haven't noticed it.

 

[Deleted member 8001]

Yeah the input lag can be pretty bothersome at times.

 

[CobaltBlu]

4 frames of input lag is nothing to complain about and actually quite good. That's better response time than some fighting games.

Hollow Knight is a great game, I hope you enjoy it!

 

[Quad Lasers]

From my very non-scientific analysis of my video it looked to be between 3 and 5 frames each time I hit B. From that I estimated an average of 70ms.

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So 3-5 frames from you and 4 frames from the OP.

Which is basically in-line with the most popular Mario games from the Wii U.

Yikes indeed.

 

[ADS]

If there indeed is any input lag in Hollow Knight it's so brief it's not noticeable..

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I mean, you're responding to a video where it's clearly demonstrated. It may not bother you but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

 

[Zyrokai]

I didn't know this was releasing physically and I downloaded it. Fuuuuuuuuuuuu

 

[HorseFD]

I've played it for about 20 hours so far, on the TV with a Pro Controller and in handheld mode. I haven't noticed any input lag. I'm not saying it isn't there, just that it hasn't affected my enjoyment of the game because I haven't realised it was there.

 

[DanteMenethil]

I think OP got confused with input lag and the amount of prejump frames in HK's jump making it seem like there's a high amount of input lag.

 

[KLoWn]

I mean, you're responding to a video where it's clearly demonstrated. It may not bother you but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

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I'm also reading a lot of comments saying that this kind of input lag is the norm. Soo.. Get used to it I guess?

 

[Deleted member 2620]

It bums me out to see so many posters getting so defensive over the OP clearly demonstrating the amount of input delay and having the gall to care about it, even if they used slightly hyperbolic language while doing so ("ungodly"). He even opens by stressing that it isn't game-breaking! Almost as sad are all the posts saying it somehow doesn't exist simply because they never noticed or cared about it, lol.

It's good information worth sharing, and given that the OP demonstrated another game of the same genre and on the same platform having tangibly less delay, it's completely valid criticism. Yes, even if it can be leveled toward a lot of other video games!

I think OP got confused with input lag and the amount of prejump frames in HK's jump making it seem like there's a high amount of input lag.

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This is possible, though, so some other tests would surely be appreciated, right?

 

[Deleted member 10737]

sooooo....
did op just conveniently vanish once it was pointed out the game has a very normal, un-ungodly (godly?) amount of input lag?

 

[Opa-Pa]

I think OP got confused with input lag and the amount of prejump frames in HK's jump making it seem like there's a high amount of input lag.

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Yeah I mentioned in another thread that this could very well be by design. The kind of proof he provides doesn't really say much unless somebody can show us that the PC version is indeed less "laggy". Hell, I'd say the jumps are intentionally made slower on reaction, it'd be far more useful to test this with the attack animation instead.

Personally I'm fairly sensitive to input lag and the game feels extremely responsive in handheld mode, so no complaints.

 

[NekoNeko]

I feel you OP. I personally didn't think it was too bad but there's nothing worse when you want to enjoy a game but something bothers you.

 

[It'sYaBoi]

I gotta step in and defend OP here. I don't think he has malicious intent. OP I've been playing exclusively on docked mode so I can't comment on handheld, but there is DEFINITELY a bit of input lag that seems way more than the norm.

Not unplayable by any means. And to be honest it mostly seems like the jump button, but I feel like I notice it in the attack as well. This game has several platforming/enemy encounters that require split second timing and you just have to be THAT much faster in your reaction which can be frustrating.

Rare that I notice it in games but I noticed it here and thought I was going crazy.

 

[Glio]

sooooo....
did op just conveniently vanish once it was pointed out the game has a very normal, un-ungodly (godly?) amount of input lag?

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It has already fulfilled its purpose.

 

[FrostyLemon]

Stealth PC brag thread lol. It feels pretty responsive when I play it.

 

[Deleted member 2834]

I'm not perceiving that input delay, I feel for you though.

 

[DanteMenethil]

It bums me out to see so many posters getting so defensive over the OP clearly demonstrating the amount of input delay and having the gall to care about it, even if they used slightly hyperbolic language while doing so ("ungodly"). He even opens by stressing that it isn't game-breaking! Almost as sad are all the posts saying it somehow doesn't exist simply because they never noticed or cared about it, lol.

It's good information worth sharing, and given that the OP demonstrated another game of the same genre and on the same platform having tangibly less delay, it's completely valid criticism. Yes, even if it can be leveled toward a lot of other video games!



This is possible, though, so some other tests would surely be appreciated, right?

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Some more tests would be nice to see but even in his own video, 4 frames of button to screen reaction is really good and above norm. CRT nes games had 2-3 frames of button to screen reaction. Most games today have about 4 frames of delay purely in-engine without accounting for the screen itself. I don't want to disregard's OP's feeling of input lag so that's why I theorize that it's probably the pre-animations frames of Hollow Knight that's actually bothering OP.

 

[Deleted member 10737]

what basis is there to defend op when his video shows a perfectly normal amount of input lag?
as it has been said many time, there's an intentional delay for the jump. it would have been better if someone tested the input lag for another action.

 

[hibikase]

It's not so much that Hollow Knight has bad input lag but rather that Blossom Tales has amazingly low input lag.

 

[Deleted member 14663]

I played 30 hours, finished it and not one time did I think there was any input lag. I found the Switch port to be quite perfect. Did have one crash though and there is an animation bug I informed the devs about.
I guess I am blessed in a way for not having issues with this as much as some people.

 

[Calamari41]

I'm at something like 16 hours and haven't noticed any input lag at all. And there have been some bosses that I've faced that require split second reactions.

 

[NaturalHigh]

I picked up Hollow Knight when they announced it on the Switch but hadn't played it yet. I just fired it up to see if OP was right because I usually hate input lag and will notice it. I just played in handheld mode and it seemed perfectly fine. Any normal Switch user should fine it more than acceptable. OP, maybe your Switch is messed up.

 

[Deleted member 11413]

This is the definition of making a mountain out of a molehill

 

[SpokkX]

Played 20 hours in both modes, haven't noticed any and I'm usually pretty conscious of input lag.

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Hmm yeah me too and i have no issue here

66ms is not THAT high though

 

[Tohsaka]

Played with a Pro controller docked and didn't really notice anything.

 

[Delriach]

It's hilarious to me that anyone would think you can get to NES levels of low input latency. There are so many contributing factors that just weren't a thing before. Take into consideration the built in latency that a console will have. The engine the game is built on can also have some latency. And then there's your TV. And it's also possible that there's wireless interference on your controller too.

Anyway. I played the game for about 3 hours during my flight today. I didn't notice anything weird about inputs at all.

 

[KLoWn]

The thread title should be changed.

 

[NeonBlack]

OP entire philosophy on input lag has been destroyed today.

 

[papercan]

there is no issue here, the input lag is pretty much identical to most other modern games these days, including mario titles and various 2d fighting games.
I think your having an issue with the jump animation (first person i've seen with this) and assuming the game has more than usual input lag but it doesn't, try the same tests on other actions and you'll realise its not a problem.

 

[Deleted member 29682]

I think OP got confused with input lag and the amount of prejump frames in HK's jump making it seem like there's a high amount of input lag.

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Personally I was really thrown off with the jumping when I first played it on PC last year. I don't exactly remember what it was but it felt a bit weird, but everything else was fine. I got used to it after an hour or so and had zero problems with it for the rest of the game, but initially maybe that was it?

Is it even possible that input lag exists for some actions and not others?

 

[Pimienta]

Damn thread backfired much?

I wonder if OP is talking about the "lag" that happens when you hit an enemy/object with a downward sword or getting hit....Which is very intented.

 

[spam musubi]

I do notice that sometimes I will randomly miss a jump or an attack by a few frames. It can be frustrating especially during boss battles or some of the harder platforming challenges.

 

[spman2099]

I was experiencing some really awful input lag (playing in docked mode), then I moved my switch closer and it was SUBSTANTIALLY better. I still think there is a little, but it is within the playable limit. It definitely doesn't feel as responsive as CotM did on the PS4.

 

[linko9]

How so . Which games? Because so far you are wrong

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https://www.reddit.com/r/miniSNES/c...y_analysis_of_nes_snes_classics_and_retropie/

Here's info on NES and SNES. 2 frames for SMB on NES, 3 for Yoshi's island on SNES. 1 or 2 frames is minor but noticeable for many players (just ask speedrunners!)

In case you didn't see my earlier post, my point was that the best-known games in the genre are on older hardware, so many people will be used to less lag in this genre. Or at least speaking from personal experience, most of my time playing platformers is on NES and SNES.

I stand by my point that the lag isn't too bad but is more than ideal— especially when you consider the hardware is capable of less lag as proven in the OP. I understand most people don't care or notice this amount of lag, but myself and many other posters in this thread do. Again, nothing major, just wish it could be better.

 

[King_Moc]

It's got the same input lag as SFIV. It's fine, stop exaggerating.

 

[hans_castorp]

Only thing I've noticed is input lag being tiny bit different between docked and handheld mode. In PoP/WhitePalace I have to time pogojumps a bit differently, but it just takes a couple of seconds till muscle memory kicks in.

But yeah, input lag is not by any means bad. Actually I think is better than other platformers/Metroidvania. HK has really tight controls.

 

[Bomblord]

No one going to address the OP is claiming that Blossom Tale on the Switch has less input lag than an SNES game on a CRT?

 

[linko9]

No one going to address the OP is claiming that Blossom Tale on the Switch has less input lag than an SNES game on a CRT?

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What's there to address, the proof is literally in the video. As others have said, that's really impressive for Blossom Tale, but the proof is right there. My understanding is that integrated handheld systems are able to keep lag extremely low if well-designed, so this isn't a shock.

 

[Bomblord]

What's there to address, the proof is literally in the video. As others have said, that's really impressive for Blossom Tale, but the proof is right there. My understanding is that integrated handheld systems are able to keep lag extremely low if well-designed, so this isn't a shock.

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Because from everything I know on the subject it's absolutely not possible. Taking the panel (it's IPS) lag, the time for the controller to send the signal, and the time for the game engine to process it there's just no way the input lag is at 16ms.