• Light/Dark
  • Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

Hollow Knight Switch's Input Lag bums me out

Status
Not open for further replies.
Arcus Felis

Arcus Felis

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,123
Rave_norris said:
Just let this topic die. Its probably hurting the game sales for a unreasonable complaint.

And i think there are people thinking its input lag but it really is just the bad joycon signal.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Dismissing a valid concern just because you think it may hurt the game's sales is disingenuous. You are also overstating ResetEra's influence: 99%+ of potential buyers don't even care about what is said here (assuming they know ResetEra exist at all). At the end of the day, positive word of mouth and reviews will make sure that the game will sell well.

I love Hollow Knight. But I also noticed that issue, and now that I know that others noticed the same thing as me I think it is interesting to investigate it, and potentially report it to the devs (or whatever company they outsourced the Switch port to) in order to see if that issue can be alleviated.
 
Rave_norris

Rave_norris

Banned
Apr 19, 2018
405
Blade Wolf said:
Do you work at the sales department or something? Cause this is very much a real issue and shouldn't be ignored.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I dont work in videogames and i dont think its a issue when even mario odyssey has the same input lag, as shown here. Its a small team without millions to spend on marketing. This kind of bad press can hurt them. And i would be ok with the complaint if it was real.

If you are talking about the joycon signal, than i agree. They suck.
 
hibikase

hibikase

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,820
All modern video games have input lag, for multiple reasons stacked on top of one another. Y'all need to get used to it because it's not going away. Stop obsessing about it and you'll be happier.
 
Blade Wolf

Blade Wolf

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,512
Taiwan
Rave_norris said:
I dont work in videogames and i dont think its a issue when even mario odyssey has the same input lag, as shown here. Its a small team without millions to spend on marketing. This kind of bad press can hurt them. And i would be ok with the complaint if it was real.

If you are talking about the joycon signal, than i agree. They suck.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

You have a point.
 
Vishmarx

Vishmarx

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,043
Rave_norris said:
I dont work in videogames and i dont think its a issue when even mario odyssey has the same input lag, as shown here. Its a small team without millions to spend on marketing. This kind of bad press can hurt them. And i would be ok with the complaint if it was real.

If you are talking about the joycon signal, than i agree. They suck.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

What if it feels laggy when im played docked using a wired controller?
 
Vincent Alexander

Vincent Alexander

Member
Oct 26, 2017
19,758
I've not noticed the lag myself, but I haven't played a ton yet.

hibikase said:
All modern video games have input lag, for multiple reasons stacked on top of one another. Y'all need to get used to it because it's not going away. Stop obsessing about it and you'll be happier.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The OP didn't start a thread asking if all modern video games have input lag, or if he should get used to it.
 
neon_dream

neon_dream

Member
Dec 18, 2017
3,644
*loads game*
*taps button*
*jumps/slashes*

*reads topic again*

"Ungodly amounts of input lag."

Is there the slightest bit of consistent and thus predictable input delay? Yes. It makes jumps feel just a bit heavy. No way is this ungodly though. Not even close.

Toad King said:
Celeste: ~4 frames of input lag, about 2 less than Hollow Knight
Super Mario Odyssey: ~6 frames of input lag, about the same as Hollow Knight
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Well then.
 
808s & Villainy

808s & Villainy

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
42,700
Arcus Felis said:
Dismissing a valid concern just because you think it may hurt the game's sales is disingenuous. You are also overstating ResetEra's influence: 99%+ of potential buyers don't even care about what is said here (assuming they know ResetEra exist at all). At the end of the day, positive word of mouth and reviews will make sure that the game will sell well.

I love Hollow Knight. But I also noticed that issue, and now that I know that others noticed the same thing as me I think it is interesting to investigate it, and potentially report it to the devs (or whatever company they outsourced the Switch port to) in order to see if that issue can be alleviated.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

It's not a valid complaint though
 
neon_dream

neon_dream

Member
Dec 18, 2017
3,644
Arcus Felis said:
... I think it is interesting to investigate it, and potentially report it to the devs (or whatever company they outsourced the Switch port to) in order to see if that issue can be alleviated.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Fair argument, given disabling vsync improves input delay on PC, which has the same input delay as Switch with vsync on.
 
neon_dream

neon_dream

Member
Dec 18, 2017
3,644
Stouffers said:
I read the first page. I'm sorry that I don't have the time to read 7 pages on Hollow Knight input lag
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I try not to believe the first and only thing I hear. So I usually at least read the last page of the topic as well, IMO.

This post is pretty good, FYI TBQH:
https://www.resetera.com/posts/9648339/

Did a quick test of a couple other Switch games, same setup as my other post:

Celeste: ~4 frames of input lag, about 2 less than Hollow Knight
Super Mario Odyssey: ~6 frames of input lag, about the same as Hollow Knight

Videos for reference/proof:
Celeste: https://drive.google.com/file/d/199cUBzFG8v8pFqPBdAqRlZVv7poklNhO/view
Super Mario Odyssey: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LuWhW3rS-ULySUs9et37hnA_yGvVhd0X/view
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
 

Cokie Bear

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,944
I'm usually not sensitive to input lag but I noticed it immediatley here. It's a shame because the game seems good, but I've beaten 2 bosses and probably won't return unless this is fixed.
 
Doskoi Panda

Doskoi Panda

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,961
lot of placebo reactions from a community that could barely tell that GTA V had any input latency at all
s'weird

so many conflating the fact that this games jump isn't immediate with the idea that the game has input latency
 
Crayon

Crayon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,580
Four frames is bad compared to one frame... But not that big a deal in absolute terms. I was playing tekken 7 with that booty lag for months and it was only a minor annoyance.
 
The Dink

The Dink

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,056
User warned: drive-by trolling
Of course I noticed the lag. I also notice when two hummingbirds fly at different rates. I can count the number of atoms that make up my computer screen. Somewhere in the world a mother cries for her lost child. No one hears, but me.

This topic physically hurts me.
 
Durante

Durante

Dark Souls Man
Member
Oct 24, 2017
5,074
When I get a new cell phone I want to make sure it supports 960 FPS video, just for input latency measurements :P

Solid said:
lot of placebo reactions from a community that could barely tell that GTA V had any input latency at all
s'weird
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
A community is composed of individuals, some of whom may be more susceptible to noticing latency than others.
 
Ereineon

Ereineon

Member
Nov 8, 2017
1,214
Stouffers said:
Is there a demo to test it out?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
there is no demo, but i can assure you unless you are some robotic guy you wont even notice anything.
At least if you didnt notice any imput lag on mario odissey you definetly wont notice it here as they have the same and much less than other games.

what you wil surely notice though, is that jumping is less physics and more input (the longer you push, the farther you go etc). so you need to learn how to properly control the guy, thats true (this allows for diferent techniques like mid air "dodging" etc)


anyway, for 15€ the ammount of content this has is insane. you will see many many "complains" from many things on the OT (many bosses that kill you hard XD) but input lag is absolutely not one that has been mentioned even once in there, so you can think about how prominent or evident this issue is... (for what is worth)
 
NediarPT88

NediarPT88

Member
Oct 29, 2017
15,126
I find it curious that in the OP video both of his jumps are made when the knight is still on the landing animation from the previous jump.
 
Aters

Aters

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
7,948
Mecha Suplex said:
Where the hell are you people getting your reference points from?

RALgArL.png
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Most games on this list is ten years old.
 
copelandmaster

copelandmaster

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,936
Crayon said:
Four frames is bad compared to one frame... But not that big a deal in absolute terms. I was playing tekken 7 with that booty lag for months and it was only a minor annoyance.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Such a minor annoyance that both the general community and pro players complained a lot, and then it got fixed. They even lowered it again in the recent DLC patch I think. All of those extra frames is a lot when you have to add network lag, the lag from your display, and the lag from the input device.

Are people seriously arguing in here (not ^Crayon specifically) that nobody should bring this issue up because "it" (the discourse? The strain of actually fixing the problem?) will hurt the devs? In a product you paid $15-20 bucks for? What in the hell?
 
Crayon

Crayon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,580
copelandmaster said:
Such a minor annoyance that both the general community and pro players complained a lot, and then it got fixed. They even lowered it again in the recent DLC patch I think. All of those extra frames is a lot when you have to add network lag, the lag from your display, and the lag from the input device.

Are people seriously arguing in here (not ^Crayon specifically) that nobody should bring this issue up because "it" (the discourse? The strain of actually fixing the problem?) will hurt the devs? In a product you paid $15-20 bucks for? What in the hell?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Oh yeah. I was sort of using t7 as a worst case example; Where you have a competitive fighting game and the flagship version has quite a bit of lag. Yet being aware of it and somewhat sensitive to it, I was still able to forget about it.

I didnt mean to say that it was no big deal in tekkens case. That was actually quite unfortunate and I was really pleased when they fixed it.
 
Łazy

Łazy

Member
Nov 1, 2017
5,249
Arcus Felis said:
Dismissing a valid concern just because you think it may hurt the game's sales is disingenuous. You are also overstating ResetEra's influence: 99%+ of potential buyers don't even care about what is said here (assuming they know ResetEra exist at all). At the end of the day, positive word of mouth and reviews will make sure that the game will sell well.

I love Hollow Knight. But I also noticed that issue, and now that I know that others noticed the same thing as me I think it is interesting to investigate it, and potentially report it to the devs (or whatever company they outsourced the Switch port to) in order to see if that issue can be alleviated.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It's absolutely not valid and yes this topic should die or be renamed.
The amount of games with same or worse imput lag that nobody ever questionned makes this one feel like bullying a random game for no reason. And one that's legitimately being praised everywhere.

The wording is especially poor.
I see online mentioned for games where imput lag hurt the gameplay but Hollow Knight doesn't evenhave any online play.
 
Strangiato

Strangiato

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,420
Can you test LEGO City Undercover on Switch? That game seems worse than any I've ever played, period.
 
Arcus Felis

Arcus Felis

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,123
If the thread title is the issue, let a mod rename it. Won't really change the topic's contents though.

Now, there is no need for hyperbole on either side of this issue. There are just questions that need answers:
  • Is the input lag game-breaking? Obviously no, otherwise this issue would have been noticed sooner by reviewers and players alike. It did annoy me, especially when I was doing some tasks, such as slashing-down spikes and enemies.
  • Is it noticeable? For some, yes. For others, no. Therefore further testing may be needed. As far as I am concerned, I did experience that lag, but until this thread came to be I was thinking my Switch was the problem, not the game specifically (Xenoblade 2 and its QTE comes to mind). For all I know, it may still be the case. I'm just interested in answers.
  • Does it affect all versions of the game, of just the Switch version? That would be interesting to know.
  • Can it be alleviated/fixed? I'm not asking if some consider it necessary, I'm just wondering if it is possible.
 
nanskee

nanskee

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 31, 2017
5,071
Something seemed off while playing tbh. I already had difficulty using the control stick but I recall complaining about having issues with the controls early in the ot. So I guess its my joycons giving me trouble

It's hard to tell in most games but when it comes to precise platforming I'm sure it's more noticeable, it's like fighting games although not as big of an impact

There are three portions in crystal mines where I had to inform my mind that my "timing" is clearly off...

Nevertheless this game is fantastic and we worth the $15 price tag. Feel like I ripped team cherry off
 
Last edited:
DC5remy

DC5remy

Member
Jan 20, 2018
7,583
Denver co
This confused me as I notice lag and never noticed it with this game at all. I'm guilty of playing in handheld mode most the time though.
 
OP
OP
AtomicShroom

AtomicShroom

Tools & Automation
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
3,079
*IMPORTANT UPDATE*

It has been brought to my attention that my original calculations on the videos were wrong. I have narrowed it down to a known issue with VLC where the "next frame" feature causes either freezes or jumps in the video (and sometimes visual corruption). In short, it's not reliable.

I redid calculations using WMP (using Ctrl+click on play button), and here's the new results:

Hollow Knight jump - 7 frames delay (116.66ms)
Hollow Knight attack - 7 frames delay (116.66ms)

Blossom Tales shield - 4 frames delay (66.66ms)
Blossom Tales sword - 4 frames delay (66.66ms)

Wildly different, but still, Hollow Knight still has almost double the input lag of Blossom Tales.

I have also updated the OP with these findings. Feel free to raise concerns if you have any. I wish someone with actual professional lag-measuring hardware would chime in. Digital Foundry?
 
Last edited:
LinkSlayer64

LinkSlayer64

One Winged Slayer
Member
Jun 6, 2018
2,293
mazi said:
so sad to see people deciding to not buy the game because of this thread
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yeah, this is really a huge issue especially when no professional tests are actually being done. I really have a hard time believing people who blame the misses on lag instead of it just being, well, you made a mistake.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.