The protagonist is nameless, some material just calls it "The Knight".
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Hollow Knight Switch's Input Lag bums me out
- Thread starter AtomicShroom
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I dumped 40 hours into this game last week and love it to death, but I know exactly what the OP is talking about as it also bothered me at first, as my running jumps seemed off all over the place until I played the game enough to adjust to the timing. It isn't that the Switch inputs themselves are laggy, and as illustrated above, it's there if you play it on PC with a controller as well (which I suspected but didn't know for sure, as I don't have it on PC).
If you play a lot of indie platformers that first appeared on PC before being ported elsewhere, the apparent lag is a familiar feeling. There's a particular kind of sluggishness in many of these games (the length of the press, the arc of your height gain) that were quite evidently tuned around keyboard controls and don't feel quite like the snappiness of a Mario game, such that hitting the jump button has a squishiness to it like pressing down on the spacebar. It isn't self-evident or documented in Hollow Knight, for instance, that the length of your button press covers such a dramatic range from a short hop to a high jump, which I think contributes to the sense of a delayed wind-up time because a tap doesn't give you much height. I've seen this before (for some reason the example that comes to mind is Teslagrad) and recognized the issue immediately: you can tell this was a game engine likely tested on keyboards first and controllers second. There's just a certain jump curve that screams PC-port.
Impressions in this thread are probably divided because you wouldn't pick it up if you're used to it (and even I've kind of trained myself around Hollow Knight by playing it all week, though aerial downward slashes still throw me off because I still have Shovel Knight timings on the brain and those are way too late). If you play a lot of Nintendo first-party platformers in particular, Hollow Knight's physics demand that you meet the game in the middle.
Platformers on the whole are a nightmare if you leave the average HDTV on default settings with all the post-processing shenanigans they introduce, but I'm working on the assumption that everyone here already knows well enough to have dealt with that.
Yes, in other words, this.
If you play a lot of indie platformers that first appeared on PC before being ported elsewhere, the apparent lag is a familiar feeling. There's a particular kind of sluggishness in many of these games (the length of the press, the arc of your height gain) that were quite evidently tuned around keyboard controls and don't feel quite like the snappiness of a Mario game, such that hitting the jump button has a squishiness to it like pressing down on the spacebar. It isn't self-evident or documented in Hollow Knight, for instance, that the length of your button press covers such a dramatic range from a short hop to a high jump, which I think contributes to the sense of a delayed wind-up time because a tap doesn't give you much height. I've seen this before (for some reason the example that comes to mind is Teslagrad) and recognized the issue immediately: you can tell this was a game engine likely tested on keyboards first and controllers second. There's just a certain jump curve that screams PC-port.
Impressions in this thread are probably divided because you wouldn't pick it up if you're used to it (and even I've kind of trained myself around Hollow Knight by playing it all week, though aerial downward slashes still throw me off because I still have Shovel Knight timings on the brain and those are way too late). If you play a lot of Nintendo first-party platformers in particular, Hollow Knight's physics demand that you meet the game in the middle.
Platformers on the whole are a nightmare if you leave the average HDTV on default settings with all the post-processing shenanigans they introduce, but I'm working on the assumption that everyone here already knows well enough to have dealt with that.
Yes, in other words, this.
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With some Unity games input lag seems to be related to the power of the hardware in some way, just as framerate is. In my desktop pc I can run Hollow Knight with very little input lag even with vsync on, but on a GPD Win input lag was noticeable and jumping felt pretty bad as if the floor was sticky or something.
- Go into your Mega Man game of choice.
- Press the "-" or "Select" button on your controller to open up the Options menu.
- Go down to "CPU Speed".
- Set it to "Original".
I've seen people say that this doesn't really affect the input lag significantly enough though.
This is exactly why I had to stop playing, particularly terrible when you're trying to bounce on things with the downwards aerial attack.
Great game but this thread confirms I'm not crazy and there is something off about the jump timing. Ran off quite a few ledges in my first hours with the game before I adjusted to it.
Yeah that didn'y help at all. Still feels slugish on handheld mode. I only touch LC2 at this point.
Well, turns out I'm not crazy either. I noticed the input lag too, and was wondering if there were interferences between my Switch and my joycons. That explains a lot.
So for the knowledgeable folks here, what kind of response time would a best-in-class modern platformer offer? How about an average one?
EDIT: Out of interest I decided to test whether or not the same amount of delay was in place for general movement. At the same settings and conditions as my last test, the character moved on the 9th frame (in my video it took me 5 frames to move the stick from upright to fully pushed - I'm counting the third frame of this movement to be "press", based on how sensitive the stick seems to be in-game).
EDIT: Out of interest I decided to test whether or not the same amount of delay was in place for general movement. At the same settings and conditions as my last test, the character moved on the 9th frame (in my video it took me 5 frames to move the stick from upright to fully pushed - I'm counting the third frame of this movement to be "press", based on how sensitive the stick seems to be in-game).
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I fully agree with this.
Having more people investigate input lag is always a good thing, since the current standards for it aren't really all that great.
THIS!
I almost threw my controller at the TV yesterday when I tried to make it through a passage of bouncy things. Unplayable and I was thinking, how does this deserve the high review scores without being mentioned?!
I really hope they are going to release a patch.
Technical threads are usually a shit show here, and were historically a shit show at the old place.
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This input lag isn't game-breaking, but I definitely felt it, and it took me some time to get accustomed to it, as it messed up my timing in several instances (most of all were bouncing on spikes or enemies). I did wonder if I was getting bad with age and/or if my Switch controllers were having issues with Wi-fi interference or something else.
I'm usually very sensitive to lag or delay. I'm about 15h into Hollow Knight playing it exlusively docked with Pro Controller and haven't noticed any issues at all. It feels fluid and very responsive to be honest.
If there are indeed technical issues causing lag I'm honestly surprised I'm not put off by them.
If there are indeed technical issues causing lag I'm honestly surprised I'm not put off by them.
Sorry if this has been asked before, but does setting the Pro Controller as a wired controller make things better?
it´s not unplayable...countless people played through the Path of Pain, which relies on spike jumping and defeated the hardest bosses in the game. If it was unplayable, this wouldn´t be the case.
it is very hyperbolic to say the game is unplayable in this state. Unplayable is Metal Slug Anthology on PS4
A man solod a destiny raid with rock band drums. Just because he can do it doesn't means it's not unplayable for others...
this analogy doesn´t really fit but whatever...i had my fun with the game and wasn´t bothered by input lag in the slightest. sorry for the people who feel that the game is unplayable but as i said there are seriously much worse offenders regarding input lag than Hollow Knight.
the damage is done already, many people will just read the thread title and take it for granted and not buy the game- even if it doesn´t really affect them (like myself and countless others in the OT and here in the thread).
you could make such a thread for every game on the market because again, the input lag in HK is still on a normal acceptable level for a console game in the HDTV era, played with a wireless controller
There's no grey on ERA, it's either the best thing ever or worst thing ever. Kinda gotten used to it already
vs. SMB was designed like that from the beginning. It doesn't have anything to do with the Switch.
It's not unplayable but I've definitely run off ledges onto spikes more than I intended to... It makes the platforming sections even more irritating.
Look you wanted to try and be literal so I did too.
At the end of the day, input makes a game not enjoyable for some people and others don't mind. That's all it is.
I was noticing something myslef while playing, but I thought it was just startup animations. For example, I would try to use the invincible dodge to evade attacks, but I'd somehow still get hit. Or, I'd go to wall jump and it seemed like there was a large delay. I assumed that actions in Hollow Knight just have a large start-up.
This is a common sentiment, but I played the arcade cabinet a lot at a Barcade near me a few months back and didn't experience any noticeable lag. Then when switching over to the Switch game, it was like everything was super slow.
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Playing them both, and they both feel the same.
Quoting those two, with v-sync on and off
There is quite a difference, it felt off to me at first too, wasn't sure why, but it's definitely this.
There is quite a difference, it felt off to me at first too, wasn't sure why, but it's definitely this.
I just did a test on the PC version using a wired 360 controller. My phone is a OnePlus 3T shooting slowmo at 120fps (according to the info I could find, the phone itself doesn't tell you this).
It took 16 frames after my finger had fully depressed the A button before the character reacted (that is to say the 16th frame after hitting the button is when the animation began). Who wants to do the math for me?
Okay, new test. Same everything, except max prerendered frames reduced to 1 in Nvidia control panel, and in-game Vsync disabled. This time the character reacted on the 9th frame of animation rather than the 16th, which is a pretty massive difference. Will get a GIF edited into this post in a few minutes.
Are we sure this isn't intentional design? The game did feel a bit laggy to me as well, I stopped playing after a couple of hours then discovered this thread.
OP
OP
Because alot of people keep hammering the notion that the jump has a supposed intentional delay (I call bullshit), I also recorded a video of the attack delay. And wowsies! It's even worse than the jump! The attack fires off 24 frames (@240fps) after input, that means 6 frames of realtime (~100ms) delay between button press and reaction.
See for yourselves:
See for yourselves:
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With vsync on the PC version (and honestly most games) feels laggy. I usually turn it off for every game.
Did a quick test of a couple other Switch games, same setup as my other post:
Celeste: ~4 frames of input lag, about 2 less than Hollow Knight
Super Mario Odyssey: ~6 frames of input lag, about the same as Hollow Knight
Videos for reference/proof:
Celeste: https://drive.google.com/file/d/199cUBzFG8v8pFqPBdAqRlZVv7poklNhO/view
Super Mario Odyssey: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LuWhW3rS-ULySUs9et37hnA_yGvVhd0X/view
Celeste: ~4 frames of input lag, about 2 less than Hollow Knight
Super Mario Odyssey: ~6 frames of input lag, about the same as Hollow Knight
Videos for reference/proof:
Celeste: https://drive.google.com/file/d/199cUBzFG8v8pFqPBdAqRlZVv7poklNhO/view
Super Mario Odyssey: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LuWhW3rS-ULySUs9et37hnA_yGvVhd0X/view
I have the same issue with the game. I've beaten the first few bosses and the whole time the game just felt "mushy." I assumed that the delay in the jumping and attacking was intentional. If it's not I hope there's a patch as I'm kind of done with the game unless there is.
User Warned: Thread whining.
Just let this topic die. Its probably hurting the game sales for a unreasonable complaint.
And i think there are people thinking its input lag but it really is just the bad joycon signal.
And i think there are people thinking its input lag but it really is just the bad joycon signal.
I played a while portable and docked (with pro controller) last night and didn't notice any lag. I tend to be pretty insensitive to it though. I didn't have any issues with Rise of the Tomb Raider on Xbox One at launch, for instance.
Do you work at the sales department or something? Cause this is very much a real issue and shouldn't be ignored.
good to know because OP claimed in the first post Super Mario Odyssey is dramatically better than Hollow Knight...
this thread here is really making a mountain out of a molehill...every game has input lag, sometimes more, sometimes less. some people are more sensitive to it, others not. some games are unplayable (Metal Slug Anthology PS4), some are playable (Hollow Knight). In this era with HDTV(or 4K),HDMI switches and wireless controllers it is normal to have input lag
I noticed the input lag immediately compared to pc. But the good thing is that I got used to it very quickly and it's not a issue now.
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