Hollow Knight: Voidheart Edition |OT2| Best Check Your Console/PC for Bugs...They're Everywhere Now

Aug 15, 2018
695
??
Quick question.

I have Hollow Knight on PC (still never played it), but I see that the Voidheart Edition on PS4 is only $7.50 right now.
Is everything in the Voidheart Edition included in the PC version already?
 

Akai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,073
Took a break from the game since pretty much RDR2 released, but now I'm back and currently on my 100% run on Steel Soul difficulty and I had way too many fights cutting it close. There is just no way that I'd be able to beat it, without using the Pause -> Quit method when I'm at 1 (or in some cases 2) HP. Not nearly as good to do that. Still love to explore the world, because it's just too beautiful. Can't resist the beautiful OST, too. Sat in Greenpath and Queens Garden for like 10 minutes each, just to listen to listen to the OST.

I'm soooooo much looking forward for Hollow Knight: Silksong.
 

Toxi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,341
It's funny looking at how different peoples' opinions on bosses are depending on when they were fought and with what upgrades.

My first play through, I made the mistake of trying to fight Brooding Mawlek right after False Knight. Oof. This time... I ended up doing the same thing just because I already knew its attack patterns and enjoyed the challenge. :P
 
Oct 26, 2017
576
It's funny looking at how different peoples' opinions on bosses are depending on when they were fought and with what upgrades.

My first play through, I made the mistake of trying to fight Brooding Mawlek right after False Knight. Oof. This time... I ended up doing the same thing just because I already knew its attack patterns and enjoyed the challenge. :P
Ya that fight was the only non-dream fight that actually took me a good handful of tries because of how “early” I probably found it. Honestly it’s mostly because I didn’t catch how to dodge it’s large spit attack properly (and only learned once I refought it in godhome).

Lost Kin was the fight that took me by far the longest to beat (10+ tries). Everything else besides these two I beat fairly quickly.
 

Barn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,437
Los Angeles
Man, I'm loving nearly everything about Hollow Knight except for the absolute slogs of repetition you have to endure before you can try a boss again after dying (especially when the bosses are so difficult). It's killing my momentum and each time I hit one of those roadblocks, I'm discouraged from picking up the game again.

Honest question: What do you all think is the design motivation behind this choice? For me, this aspect is crossing the line from challenging to joyless, but I'm curious to hear why y'all think it's handled this way.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,457
Man, I'm loving nearly everything about Hollow Knight except for the absolute slogs of repetition you have to endure before you can try a boss again after dying (especially when the bosses are so difficult). It's killing my momentum and each time I hit one of those roadblocks, I'm discouraged from picking up the game again.

Honest question: What do you all think is the design motivation behind this choice? For me, this aspect is crossing the line from challenging to joyless, but I'm curious to hear why y'all think it's handled this way.
There is almost always a bench very close to a boss battle, the walk back shouldn't be more than like ~30 seconds with a few exceptions. Hmm, for what bosses did you experience such a slog to get back?
 
Oct 25, 2017
927
There is almost always a bench very close to a boss battle, the walk back shouldn't be more than like ~30 seconds with a few exceptions. Hmm, for what bosses did you experience such a slog to get back?
I haven't played the game in months but I vividly remember hating losing to Soul Master (which I did multiple times) because getting back to him was a pain in the ass with those teleporting mini Soul Master jerks.

I do love this game, but those are the little things that made the experience less enjoyable for me. I know that you get the satisfaction when you finally beat a boss, but they are hard enough without the traversal back that it didn't really add anything but frustration.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,457
I haven't played the game in months but I vividly remember hating losing to Soul Master (which I did multiple times) because getting back to him was a pain in the ass with those teleporting mini Soul Master jerks.

I do love this game, but those are the little things that made the experience less enjoyable for me. I know that you get the satisfaction when you finally beat a boss, but they are hard enough without the traversal back that it didn't really add anything but frustration.
Oh yes, that's true, that's one of the few bosses where you do have to walk quite far, iirc a speedrunner even mentioned it as the de facto longest walk back to a boss, especially if you don't discover the shortcut to the right of the bench.

But I still believe those cases to be very few.
 

Akai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,073
Completed my Steel Soul run some days ago. Was even 100% under 20 hours, so that's 3 achievements done.

Does anyone know, if there is an updated speedrun guide for the 5 hour one? All I can find is this one, which is for 3 hours:


Does it make sense to use that one or are there better ones? Still seems crazy to me, because you are fighting the Watcher Knights with essentially no upgrades and I'm not sure, if I'll be able to get past them that way.
 

Barn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,437
Los Angeles
There is almost always a bench very close to a boss battle, the walk back shouldn't be more than like ~30 seconds with a few exceptions. Hmm, for what bosses did you experience such a slog to get back?
Right now, I'm on the Crystal Guardian. Comparatively, the boss itself is not going to be that hard; I think I've got it down. But it takes one or two tries to learn the pattern for most bosses, and then a few tries to execute on that learning, at least for me. This boss occupies a bench that I can't use until it's defeated, so I have to navigate a long distance upward all while contending with traps full of those laser crystal caterpillar things, where one hit knocks you back into two other lasers. Getting to the boss with full health is a time-consuming challenge -- it's a slog. It took a while for me to get back to the boss directly before this (The Mantis Lords), too; though the trek wasn't as challenging, I had to try that boss a lot before I was successful, which means I had to make that trek over and over and over. And as Skiptastic said, Soul Master is another example. I do think it's a pattern.

I do love this game, but those are the little things that made the experience less enjoyable for me. I know that you get the satisfaction when you finally beat a boss, but they are hard enough without the traversal back that it didn't really add anything but frustration.
Yeah, this is where I'm at currently (including the part where I still love the game). For me, game design that forces you to repeat a long series of tasks that you've already successfully completed a dozen times just for the chance to make an attempt at the one task you're stuck on is simply not good design. As a gamer who has not enjoyed that sort of pattern since the NES days, it now strikes me as a holdover from the days when save systems weren't as advanced or when games were still in the proximity of that quarter-munching mentality, seeking to cheaply extend their length and challenge. It's just a joyless process to me.

But I brought it up here because I know people have really studied Hollow Knight deeply, so I was curious if there might be some sort of design justification for it in this case. I'd really like to know if there are people who think it adds something to the game (and, no, "sense of achievement" doesn't cut it for me; I get that from the boss itself, not walking there for the 14th time), or if the general consensus is that it's an antiquated choice and a mark against an otherwise wonderful game.
 
Nov 13, 2017
565
Right now, I'm on the Crystal Guardian. Comparatively, the boss itself is not going to be that hard; I think I've got it down. But it takes one or two tries to learn the pattern for most bosses, and then a few tries to execute on that learning, at least for me. This boss occupies a bench that I can't use until it's defeated, so I have to navigate a long distance upward all while contending with traps full of those laser crystal caterpillar things, where one hit knocks you back into two other lasers. Getting to the boss with full health is a time-consuming challenge -- it's a slog. It took a while for me to get back to the boss directly before this (The Mantis Lords), too; though the trek wasn't as challenging, I had to try that boss a lot before I was successful, which means I had to make that trek over and over and over. And as Skiptastic said, Soul Master is another example. I do think it's a pattern.



Yeah, this is where I'm at currently (including the part where I still love the game). For me, game design that forces you to repeat a long series of tasks that you've already successfully completed a dozen times just for the chance to make an attempt at the one task you're stuck on is simply not good design. As a gamer who has not enjoyed that sort of pattern since the NES days, it now strikes me as a holdover from the days when save systems weren't as advanced or when games were still in the proximity of that quarter-munching mentality, seeking to cheaply extend their length and challenge. It's just a joyless process to me.

But I brought it up here because I know people have really studied Hollow Knight deeply, so I was curious if there might be some sort of design justification for it in this case. I'd really like to know if there are people who think it adds something to the game (and, no, "sense of achievement" doesn't cut it for me; I get that from the boss itself, not walking there for the 14th time), or if the general consensus is that it's an antiquated choice and a mark against an otherwise wonderful game.
I think the intention was that it would make the boss fights more tense - if you've already invested time and effort to reach the boss each time, it's going to matter to you more that you defeat it. Another facet of that decision would be the whole killing your shade thing.

I agree with you though.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,190
Yeah, I agree the trek to Soul Master was annoying. After nearly 2 days of not succeeding, I ended up just quitting and coming back 15 game hours later when I was upgraded with better charms.

Another annoying thing is having to refill your soul meter before a fight. Last night I spent an hour or so on Watcher Knight and I had to go through a whole annoying process of killing enemies to refill my 3 meters each time I died (which was quite often!). I felt like I was playing Metroid 1!
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,341
After beating the final boss of the Grimm Troupe for the first time, I decided to look at some guides and... Why the hell do they all recommend dashing through the swipe->uppercut? It's way easier to pogo off the boss's head by just jumping over the swipe, and the fireballs never hit that position.

Anyway, really fun and fair fight. Glad I didn't banish the troupe this time.
 
Mar 5, 2019
8
Hi,

New to resetera and love this game. Surprising team cherry have and can make such a quality metroidvania with only 2 or 3 people. Glad they’ve got Christopher Larkin back as well. Often found the music would speak to me. Eagerly awaiting Silksong.

PS: fuck godmaster

 
Oct 25, 2017
2,073
Welcome to ResetERA Talos.

Watching the end of the video and could this actually be how Silksong will start? I didn't even know that Godmaster features yet an other ending. I mean... how could I? It's not like I'll ever beat this insane challenge that is unfortunately tied to an achievement/trophy.
 
Nov 6, 2017
205
Hi, I finished the game the last week, it was fantastic. I'm really pumped about Silksong. About endinds, Team Cherry said they would try to tie all endings in the sequel so who know? And they also said there is not a canon ending if I'm rembering well. (Yes I did watch a lot of lore videos produced by Superforge/Mossbag ahah.)
 
Mar 5, 2019
8
Welcome to ResetERA Talos.

Watching the end of the video and could this actually be how Silksong will start? I didn't even know that Godmaster features yet an other ending. I mean... how could I? It's not like I'll ever beat this insane challenge that is unfortunately tied to an achievement/trophy.
Yeah, didn’t like that they locked an ending behind the last pantheon, as it’s far more substantial than say the short scene after path of pain. I don’t know if the ending hints at the beginning of silksong or if they’re simply not going acknowledge it and make silksong a prequel. I think mossbag has a video on why it may be a prequel.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,073
Hardest part of the speedrun achievement is done. Beat the Watcher Knights after 59 attempts (~2h 49m) and with no upgrades. I'm glad that the Dashboard method doesn't add time to your run. Would have been a nightmare otherwise.

Yeah, didn’t like that they locked an ending behind the last pantheon, as it’s far more substantial than say the short scene after path of pain. I don’t know if the ending hints at the beginning of silksong or if they’re simply not going acknowledge it and make silksong a prequel. I think mossbag has a video on why it may be a prequel.
I see. Have been slacking with watching his videos, so I'll have to catch up.
 
Oct 27, 2017
221
So I picked this up for the switch about a month ago played it for like 5 hours or so and put it down. I like the game as a whole but the walk of shame after dying annoys me to no end. Is there a good way to mitigate this other than just getting good? I’m ok with dying a lot on boss fights but the checkpoint distance feels a bit too punishing... nothing more infuriating than dying multiple times against a boss and then dying on your way back to said boss only to lose all your money
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,608
Got this a week and a half ago, maybe two, and have been devouring it since then. Love it so much. I'm very close to finishing but want to clean up a bunch of the extra stuff there's still to do.

The reason I'm here though, I have to share:

I finally beat Grimm. After so many tries I finally did it. But. I died at the same time. And since I finished my death animation before he finished his... it didn't count it. Of course on several subsequent tries I haven't been able to pull it off. So, my question: Is this hell?

So I picked this up for the switch about a month ago played it for like 5 hours or so and put it down. I like the game as a whole but the walk of shame after dying annoys me to no end. Is there a good way to mitigate this other than just getting good? I’m ok with dying a lot on boss fights but the checkpoint distance feels a bit too punishing... nothing more infuriating than dying multiple times against a boss and then dying on your way back to said boss only to lose all your money
You got the map and the pins that show you where benches are?

Because if you're fighting False Knight, I believe there's a bench fairly close. Also, keep your eye out for shortcuts that make boss runs much shorter. I feel like you shouldn't be fighting the boss of an area until you feel confident in how much you've explored the area beforehand. There may be other shortcuts or super helpful charms or whatever. You frequently don't always need to defeat the bosses to progress to a new area. So if one really has you down, maybe grab your shade then head somewhere else for a while. You'll come back more powerful and refreshed.
 
Last edited:
Oct 25, 2017
2,073
Speedrun progress:

Made it to (end boss spoiler !!!) Hollow Knight after ~1h 40m. He is pretty tough with no upgrades, so I wonder if I should use the remaining ~3h 20m to collect more upgrades? Question is, what do I collect? 2 Nail upgrades and Shade Soul definitely seem to be manageable, but what else would be worth investing?

For reference, the only items that I currently use are Vengeful Spirit and Shaman Stone.

Got this a week and a half ago, maybe two, and have been devouring it since then. Love it so much. I'm very close to finishing but want to clean up a bunch of the extra stuff there's still to do.

The reason I'm here though, I have to share:

I finally beat Grimm. After so many tries I finally did it. But. I died at the same time. And since I finished my death animation before he finished his... it didn't count it. Of course on several subsequent tries I haven't been able to pull it off. So, my question: Is this hell?
Hell will be awaiting you soon enough and you'll find Grimm cute compared to what's coming next.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,608
Speedrun progress:

Made it to (end boss spoiler !!!) Hollow Knight after ~1h 40m. He is pretty tough with no upgrades, so I wonder if I should use the remaining ~3h 20m to collect more upgrades? Question is, what do I collect? 2 Nail upgrades and Shade Soul definitely seem to be manageable, but what else would be worth investing?

For reference, the only items that I currently use are Vengeful Spirit and Shaman Stone.



Hell will be awaiting you soon enough and you'll find Grimm cute compared to what's coming next.
😞😞😞😞😞

Wishing I were good at video games rn.......
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,073
😞😞😞😞😞

Wishing I were good at video games rn.......
I wished I was better at Hollow Knight, too. This 5 hour speedrun attempt proved that I'm really not that good. Otherwise, I wouldn't have to use the Dashboard Quit method all the time, which doesn't add the time from unsuccessful attempts.

I'm sure you'll be able to beat the game anyways. Don't let my words discourage you (wasn't my intention).
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,608
I wished I was better at Hollow Knight, too. This 5 hour speedrun attempt proved that I'm really not that good. Otherwise, I wouldn't have to use the Dashboard Quit method all the time, which doesn't add the time from unsuccessful attempts.

I'm sure you'll be able to beat the game anyways. Don't let my words discourage you (wasn't my intention).
No, that's okay! I'm determined to push through. But I feel like it really does take me so many more attempts than normal to beat a challenging boss because I'm bad at pattern recognition and playing patiently. But it's the same thing with the Souls games. I always feel behind the curve on those games, but I push through (or summon/cheese if I have to) and "git gud", even if it's not as gud as other people or gud enough to ever feel masterful.

It's incredible that you're doing a 5-hour speedrun! You may not be where you wanna be, but to me that's awe-inspiring.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,073
No, that's okay! I'm determined to push through. But I feel like it really does take me so many more attempts than normal to beat a challenging boss because I'm bad at pattern recognition and playing patiently. But it's the same thing with the Souls games. I always feel behind the curve on those games, but I push through (or summon/cheese if I have to) and "git gud", even if it's not as gud as other people or gud enough to ever feel masterful.

It's incredible that you're doing a 5-hour speedrun! You may not be where you wanna be, but to me that's awe-inspiring.
i feel the exact same way. I'm more than often enough playing too greedy, because I get impatient and/or read certain patterns wrong. Then, when I see how actual good players play this game, I feel like the worst player out there. lol

Good that we both are determined to keep on pushing, though. :D
 
Oct 28, 2017
164
Speedrun progress:

Made it to (end boss spoiler !!!) Hollow Knight after ~1h 40m. He is pretty tough with no upgrades, so I wonder if I should use the remaining ~3h 20m to collect more upgrades? Question is, what do I collect? 2 Nail upgrades and Shade Soul definitely seem to be manageable, but what else would be worth investing?

For reference, the only items that I currently use are Vengeful Spirit and Shaman Stone.
When trying this, I'd very strongly recommend grabbing the Shade Soul or Descending Dark. It doesn't take that long to get them and they do a lot of damage with Shaman Stone. If you have even more time, I'd also consider grabbing double jump just for the improved dodging; 5 hours is actually a pretty generous amount of time to get to "the end of the game" once you know where you're going.

Edit: One of my friends reminded me that he had enough time to get the shadow dash also, which also helps with the dodging piece.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,073
When trying this, I'd very strongly recommend grabbing the Shade Soul or Descending Dark. It doesn't take that long to get them and they do a lot of damage with Shaman Stone. If you have even more time, I'd also consider grabbing double jump just for the improved dodging; 5 hours is actually a pretty generous amount of time to get to "the end of the game" once you know where you're going.

Edit: One of my friends reminded me that he had enough time to get the shadow dash also, which also helps with the dodging piece.
Thanks for the input. I'll try my best to get all of those, except maybe for Double Jump. Will depend on how much time I burn, though.

One question about Descending Dark. You can't get that before Desolate Dive, right? Because, it wasn't needed in the speedrun so I didn't grab it.
 
Oct 28, 2017
164
Yes, you need Desolate dive to get Descending Dark. Soul Sanctum is a pretty short detour, and also lets you alter the route to not buy the lantern. Note that you may want the lantern since you still have to do part of Deepnest and it's quite annoying without it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,073
Yes, you need Desolate dive to get Descending Dark. Soul Sanctum is a pretty short detour, and also lets you alter the route to not buy the lantern. Note that you may want the lantern since you still have to do part of Deepnest and it's quite annoying without it.
I have the lantern, but what do I need to do in Deepnest? I'm already sitting right in front of the Hollow Knight in the Black Egg Temple.
 
Oct 28, 2017
164
I have the lantern, but what do I need to do in Deepnest? I'm already sitting right in front of the Hollow Knight in the Black Egg Temple.
I meant from the start, because there's no getting around having to do the Dreamer there. If you're sitting at the end then you might just want to see if Shade Soul is enough to get you through, since that's pretty quick and still a huge power spike.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,073
I meant from the start, because there's no getting around having to do the Dreamer there. If you're sitting at the end then you might just want to see if Shade Soul is enough to get you through, since that's pretty quick and still a huge power spike.
I see. Not a fan of going lantern-less. It's a huge headache and I don't mind collecting 2-3 artifacts to sell them for Geo.