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Hollywood Reporter: Dave Chappelle Slams Michael Jackson Accusers and "Cancel Culture" in Netflix Special

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Psychoward

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Nov 7, 2017
23,198
He's done many charities, advocated for police reform, spoken out against the president.
Fun fact, he is also a Muslim.

But because the alt-right found some of his jokes funny, he is an alt-right icon now?

I don't get it
What does any of this have to do with transphobia?

Nobody is saying he's an alt right figurehead or leader and yes a lot of times the alt right will like innocent stuff because people enjoy a wide variety of things. But the fact that people are going to bat about specific segments that are shitty and that the alt right are celebrating BECAUSE of their commentary and not the comedy... I mean come on.
 

Mercury Fred

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,263
My issue is that that doesn't make him some sort of alt-right icon.
Have you viewed the special? In it he claims to be pro-choice, he also acknowledged that Kevin hart made a mistake in making those homophobic comments.
He even said this
There’s only one thing that’s going to save this country from itself. Same thing that always saves this country from itself, and that is African Americans
He's done many charities, advocated for police reform, spoken out against the president.
Fun fact, he is also a Muslim.

But because the alt-right found some of his jokes funny, he is an alt-right icon now?

I don't get it
I can’t get in the heads of the Breitbart editorial staff, but if I had to guess on why they’re making him into an alt-right icon along with The Daily Caller, Washington Examiner, etc. it’s because of his relentless transphobia and their glee at having a shield for their own.
 

Terminus

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
1,874
User Banned (Permanent): Modwhining, Hostility Towards Staff, and Misrepresenting Moderation Over Multiple Posts; Numerous Prior Bans for Similar Behavior
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Trup1aya

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,294
Yes.

Of course hey won't admit it. But if it's true that comedy has to appear to hold some truth to be funny, and people are laughing at the "truth" of transphobic jokes, it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to do the math.
Its not true that comedy has to appear to hold truth to be funny.
 
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OhMan

Member
Apr 29, 2019
60
What does any of this have to do with transphobia?

Nobody is saying he's an alt right figurehead or leader and yes a lot of times the alt right will like innocent stuff because people enjoy a wide variety of things. But the fact that people are going to bat about specific segments that are shitty and that the alt right are celebrating BECAUSE of their commentary and not the comedy... I mean come on.
Nothing? I'm pointing out how silly it is calling him an alt-right icon.

Nobody is saying he's an alt right figurehead or leader
uhh
He's an icon of the alt-right who is making a career out of punching down at marginalized people. That's not a leftist. Targeting marginalized communities who are disproportionately victims of violent crime is more than enough to disqualify him from being able to ever be considered a leftist. But his misogyny also contributes to the calculus.
What is your opinion on the transphobia espoused in the special?
He probably shouldn't have done it.
 
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Servbot24

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,491
Meanwhile he and countless comedians complain about how difficult it is to tell jokes yet many of those same comedians have sold out tours and Netflix specials. It’s such a transparent racket that you’d either have to be a fool or willfully ignorant to fall for it.

That panic about cancel culture permeated the social consciousness when we have DONALD FUCKING TRUMP as President will never not be tragic and hilarious to me. It’s just 90’s “PC police” bullshit with a fresh coat of paint.
This is why I hate the crowd reactions so much. I understand that Dave is just talking shit, but the crowd is buying his “the real victim are people who can’t say f*****!” punchline as an actual message and they’re agreeing with enthusiasm.
 

FeistyBoots

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,341
Southern California
What if you did? Would that suddenly make you a trash person? Would you cancel yourself?

Cancelception.

As the other poster said, context matters and if it was a funny joke and not horribly mean spirited then I might laugh. Even if it was super mean spirited but managed to be funny I might laugh.

You simply can't view comedy under the same lens as everything else. It doesn't work that way.
Humor is a very complicated subject.

This thread would have gone a completely different way if Chappelle said this stuff in an actual interview with a straight face as opposed to a comedy special of his named Sticks and Stones where the entire thing was about talking about things that offend people in 2019.
Yes, it would have gone differently, because the people in here agreeing with his transphobia by loving the transphobic jokes wouldn't be posting. They wouldn't have the excuse of "it's just comedy" to hide their bigotry behind.
 

Biggersmaller

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,078
Minneapolis
Would you laugh if someone was attacked by a shark and left disfigured and then the comedian mocked that same person for their disability, in the same way that Trump did?

I don’t see much difference between that and mocking/questioning specific victims of child rape.
How is this still unclear? The difference is one is a comedy routine in front of a paid audience that anyone can easily choose to ignore.

The other is POTUS representing an entire country.
 

Sunster

The Fallen
Oct 5, 2018
3,919
Phil Defranco is like a less obnoxious Boogie
lol yeah when i was like 17-18 in 2011-12 Defranco was the first youtuber i was into and where i got most of my "news" from. i would watch his show everyday. I think I stopped early into Obama's second term. lol I remember during the election he said he was voting for Johnson. had no idea what a libertarian was at that time so i thought nothing of it then. but soon after that i became more politically aware and drifted away from him.
 

Mercury Fred

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,263
To be clear, I'm not suggesting Chappelle self-identifies as alt-right, I'm saying that he's being taken up by members and key media of that movement seemingly because their views appear to match his around trans people and the rest of the LGBTQ community.
 

Kyuuji

Member
Nov 8, 2017
9,168
How is this still unclear? The difference is one is a comedy routine in front of a paid audience that anyone can easily choose to ignore.

The other is POTUS representing an entire country.
I was indicating the manner of the mockery - mocking them in the same way that Trump did. The comparison is drawn between the shark scenario and the abuse victims.

So that was never unclear, but also not what was being said.
 

Sunster

The Fallen
Oct 5, 2018
3,919
This got a ban? Christ, this might be the most egregious example of a mod’s personal vendetta I’ve seen yet.
yeahhh i got a p wild ban in the last "trump says Jews who vote dem are disloyal" thread last week. Like, i made a very mild comment which was followed by page after page of similar comments... but for some reason I was selected for a ban and no one else was even warned. I've never once complained about the moderation here but.... wth? lol
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
22,740
Not directed at you obviously but people really have a hard time differentiating between the subject and the target of a joke.
Which is why people like Dave shouldn't make certain jokes. He literally quit Chapelle show for that very reason yet lacks the self awareness to see that he's basically emulating the behavior of people who thought the joke was on black people. The problem with Dave's standup is not only the jokes he's making, it's also the part where he validates the transphobic and racist opinions of straight and white people. So they hear him say something like

"Why can I say nigger but not f*gg*t"

and think they should be allowed to say both.
 

beelzebozo

Member
Oct 26, 2017
871
this guy sucks so much. if he watched that documentary and this is takeaway he is so heinous. blooming into a full boomer comic.
 

truly101

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
3,245
To be clear, I'm not suggesting Chappelle self-identifies as alt-right, I'm saying that he's being taken up by members and key media of that movement seemingly because their views appear to match his around trans people and the rest of the LGBTQ community.
the alt right would point to Chappelle's comments as a sort of validation of their views. Like hey, here's a black comedian saying some of the same terrible shit we do We can't be that mean and out of touch if Dave Chappelle is making similar jokes.
Yeah, you can, and you are, and so is he.
 

thediamondage

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,752
It is pretty fascinating how this one special has become a vortex of the culture war in just 2 days, but its also kinda sad that I am afraid to post any opinions on it on ERA.

I just did a quick search on twitter and in just 1 minute over 130 tweets with the word Chappelle went out. Crazy.

I've always thought of Dave Chappelle as a guy who has an extremely intuitive "pulse" on the nations social and culture wars, and I wonder if all the back and forth on this special - is he an old man yelling at the clouds, is he turning into a conservative, why is he so transphobic - is him fumbling with trying to tell us what the hot button issues in America are gonna be over the next 10 years.
 

blacktout

Member
Jan 16, 2018
834
So they hear him say something like

"Why can I say nigger but not f*gg*t"

and think they should be allowed to say both.
I'm not going to wade into the really tricky larger conversation here, but I have to object to this characterization of his joke, since the punchline ("I'm not a [n-word] either.") is very explicitly anti-racist and the point is that the largely white Standards & Practices people were bringing a lot of unacknowledged racist assumptions to their assessment of his material and letting that prejudice color their perceptions of what he should and shouldn't be allowed to say.

Yes, sure, a racist could maliciously misconstrue that joke as a permission slip to use the n-word, but it seems like it would be a shame to kill one of the most brutally incisive (and once against: anti-racist) punchlines in the whole special because it might be manipulatively used by a group of people whose entire MO is taking shit out of context to justify their xenophobic worldview.
 

Nairume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,769
I've always thought of Dave Chappelle as a guy who has an extremely intuitive "pulse" on the nations social and culture wars, and I wonder if all the back and forth on this special - is he an old man yelling at the clouds, is he turning into a conservative, why is he so transphobic - is him fumbling with trying to tell us what the hot button issues in America are gonna be over the next 10 years.
He might have had a finger on the pulse of American society and culture at one point, but he's clearly lost something in the time he spent on hiatus. Regardless of whether or not he can still be funny or not (that's entirely up to you), he clearly went from somebody who acknowledged that comedy is a game of testing limits (because those limits very much exist) to being just another cranky old comedian who that is mad he's not with it anymore and doesn't realize that he sold out years ago.
 

excelsiorlef

Member
Oct 25, 2017
42,070
So from the epilogue, he says a trans person asks why his r Kelly jokes legitimatized r Kelly's actions but why can't it trans jokes do the same and kinda leaves it for the audience to think about
That's right up there with his defense of using gay slurs.

Man he must have been so happy he found a trans person he can trot out to argue that by mocking our very existence he's actually legitimizing us lol
 

Snowy

Member
Nov 11, 2017
1,131
The Michael Jackson jokes are actually very very funny.

The ten minute of trans jokes are pretty cringeworthy.
 

excelsiorlef

Member
Oct 25, 2017
42,070
What if you did? Would that suddenly make you a trash person? Would you cancel yourself?

Cancelception.

As the other poster said, context matters and if it was a funny joke and not horribly mean spirited then I might laugh. Even if it was super mean spirited but managed to be funny I might laugh.

You simply can't view comedy under the same lens as everything else. It doesn't work that way.
Humor is a very complicated subject.

This thread would have gone a completely different way if Chappelle said this stuff in an actual interview with a straight face as opposed to a comedy special of his named Sticks and Stones where the entire thing was about talking about things that offend people in 2019.
Nah fuck that.

People use comedy to spread hate on the dlow all the time.

Chappelle is absolutely using his comedy to strike at the trans community for daring to criticize him.
 

excelsiorlef

Member
Oct 25, 2017
42,070
I'm not going to wade into the really tricky larger conversation here, but I have to object to this characterization of his joke, since the punchline ("I'm not a [n-word] either.") is very explicitly anti-racist and the point is that the largely white Standards & Practices people were bringing a lot of unacknowledged racist assumptions to their assessment of his material and letting that prejudice color their perceptions of what he should and shouldn't be allowed to say.

Yes, sure, a racist could maliciously misconstrue that joke as a permission slip to use the n-word, but it seems like it would be a shame to kill one of the most brutally incisive (and once against: anti-racist) punchlines in the whole special because it might be manipulatively used by a group of people whose entire MO is taking shit out of context to justify their xenophobic worldview.
Except bullshit because if they had asked him to stop using the N word, the routine would be about white people who invented the word and hit him with it now telling him he can't use it.

Which would be accurate

We literally mock white people, for good reason, who tell black folk they shouldn't use the n word.



The context of that joke is to claim Queers run Hollywood and how protected (lol!) LGBT people are from mockery and he uses a disingenuous comparison because at the end of the day he's a baby who got pissed he couldn't use gay slurs.

Chappelle is obviously anti-racist... he is pro transphobia and homophobia though.
 
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Snowy

Member
Nov 11, 2017
1,131
There really is nothing to defend in the trans jokes in this one. There’s no funny punchline nor incisive commentary (the one about gays and lesbians resenting trans people for making the struggle harder could have a germ of a point about how even marginalized people can recapitulate oppression, if the whole bit were crafted differently), just a lot of tired stereotypes and observations tied on the really weird and unfunny edifice of the car ride. And the less said about the Chinese joke, the better.

Tying this to the alt-right is rather ridiculous, though. If you want to understand the various strains of white supremacism in the US, I’d recommend the podcast “I Don’t Speak German”, which lays out rather clearly that the misogyny, homophobia, and transphobia in those communities is on a whole different level and has different philosophical underpinnings. This is pretty garden variety transphobia by comparison. That’s not to excuse it, so much as to say that “alt-right” becomes even more useless as a term if it’s affixed to every example of bigotry and intolerance out there.
 

PogChamp

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,548
I had a long post typed up, but it essentially boils down to

its a really disappointing event to see someone I like and idolize go down an unfortunate path.
 

Mercury Fred

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,263
There really is nothing to defend in the trans jokes in this one. There’s no funny punchline nor incisive commentary (the one about gays and lesbians resenting trans people for making the struggle harder could have a germ of a point about how even marginalized people can recapitulate oppression, if the whole bit were crafted differently), just a lot of tired stereotypes and observations tied on the really weird and unfunny edifice of the car ride. And the less said about the Chinese joke, the better.

Tying this to the alt-right is rather ridiculous, though. If you want to understand the various strains of white supremacism in the US, I’d recommend the podcast “I Don’t Speak German”, which lays out rather clearly that the misogyny, homophobia, and transphobia in those communities is on a whole different level and has different philosophical underpinnings. This is pretty garden variety transphobia by comparison. That’s not to excuse it, so much as to say that “alt-right” becomes even more useless as a term if it’s affixed to every example of bigotry and intolerance out there.
The reason I brought up the alt-right is because they seem to be clamoring to signal boost, celebrate and show connection with Chappelle. I'm not the one making the connection, they are. I'm just pointing it out here.
 

Snowy

Member
Nov 11, 2017
1,131
The reaction to the Michael Jackson bit is odd, however. He clearly mocks the sentiment of celebrities getting preferential treatment in society (“Come on, it’s Michael Jackson!”), juxtaposes the horror of child molestation against gleeful celebrity worship (“The King of Pop sucked my dick!”), and ties itself up with an edgy but well-crafted punchline about Macaulay Culkin (the quotes definitely look worse without the “That kid is hard to catch!” line at the end). It’s also basically a continuation of the Chappelle’s Show bit where he refuses to believe in any black person’s guilt due to the reality of systemic bias and constructs increasingly elaborate rationales to maintain that position.

It’s fine to have personal no-go zones with respect to what you do or do not find funny, but it wasn’t pushing anything ideologically offensive or untoward.
 

est1992

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,849
User Banned (1 Month): Trolling in a sensitive thread; Dismissing concerns of transphobia; Prior severe ban for bigotry
I thought the special was hilarious. And genius.

EDIT: After reading through the thread, I think it’s obvious some people just haven’t seen enough comedy shows. This is what it is.

A lot of people said Dave fell off. I see the same Dave I’ve always seen. He’s made fun of everyone.

And for the record, I think it’s important to note that Dave Chappelle never said it was bad to be part of the LGBTQ+ community. Never once did he say it was bad, you shouldn’t do it, or anything of that nature. He’s always been one of those “fuck it, do you” kind of dudes.

Let’s stop acting like he’s a shit person, he’s not.
 
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Psychoward

Member
Nov 7, 2017
23,198
I thought the special was hilarious. And genius.

EDIT: After reading through the thread, I think it’s obvious some people just haven’t seen enough comedy shows. This is what it is.

A lot of people said Dave fell off. I see the same Dave I’ve always seen. He’s made fun of everyone.

And for the record, I think it’s important to note that Dave Chappelle never said it was bad to be part of the LGBTQ+ community. Never once did he say it was bad, you shouldn’t do it, or anything of that nature. He’s always been one of those “fuck it, do you” kind of dudes.

Let’s stop acting like he’s a shit person, he’s not.
There's a difference between poking fun at people and outright mocking their existence in extremely negative ways. His trans jokes have always been the latter and he hasn't changed them at all despite outcry for years.

He can say whatever he wants about supporting other people, Trump held up an LGBT flag and that doesn't automatically make him free from homophobia🤷‍♀️
 

excelsiorlef

Member
Oct 25, 2017
42,070
I thought the special was hilarious. And genius.

EDIT: After reading through the thread, I think it’s obvious some people just haven’t seen enough comedy shows. This is what it is.

A lot of people said Dave fell off. I see the same Dave I’ve always seen. He’s made fun of everyone.

And for the record, I think it’s important to note that Dave Chappelle never said it was bad to be part of the LGBTQ+ community. Never once did he say it was bad, you shouldn’t do it, or anything of that nature. He’s always been one of those “fuck it, do you” kind of dudes.

Let’s stop acting like he’s a shit person, he’s not.
No he just thinks queers run Hollywood, and that trans people are in their very existence a punchline.
 

Kyuuji

Member
Nov 8, 2017
9,168
I thought the special was hilarious. And genius.

EDIT: After reading through the thread, I think it’s obvious some people just haven’t seen enough comedy shows. This is what it is.
I've seen plenty, but thanks for dismissing the concerns of those in the thread as just being ignorant to "comedy".

Perhaps you've just not seen quality comedy where people don't need to punch down on Trans people and mock child abuse victims to get a chuckle.

It’s fine to have personal no-go zones with respect to what you do or do not find funny, but it wasn’t pushing anything ideologically offensive or untoward.
Nah, fuck that. Mocking two people that were repeatedly raped, groomed and abused as children and claiming none of it happened is something that isn't just brushed off because the person saying it is on stage with a mic.
 

Alandrus Sun

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
390
User Banned (Permanent): Rationalizing Transphobia; Prior Severe Ban for Legitimizing a Harassment Campaign
Im amazed they didn't bundle this with his last 2 specials. I felt this was the perfect end to what those last two started on. Outrage culture, #meetoo and other topics. This special is the hembodiment of what he started those specials on that comedy should be a place for "reckless talk" unbound to moderation as long as it gets a laugh. And the crowd was laughing.

IMO it wasn't as funny as any of his other specials nor did he say a lot new but I was entertained. It reminds me a lot of Aziz's last special which I found to be just Aziz trying a Bird Revelation approach but he isn't as good at crowd work as Chappelle and apart from an interesting directing type by Spike Jonze and there conveniently being a child in the front row for Aziz to riff on. He didn't have many jokes.

As for Chappelle, his reckless talk approach is what is getting him in trouble. He knows he's wrong. Seriously. He says not to watch Leaving Neverland because "it's gross" not because it's wrong but just because it is ruining one of his idols. It's no different than his superhero bit of "He rapes but he saves" to illustrate his relationship with Billl Cosby. Sadly, he isn't ready to accept Jackson's fall. He looked up to him more than Cosby. He loves Prince and Jackson.

Yet, the Jackson and Transgender approach isn't anything new from me. I know a shit ton of black people with his ideology. If you're part of my parents generation or older, transgenerism and genderfluidity is fucking weird to them. I get it. But I'm also a twenty-five years old dude. Transgenderism hasn't really been part of the mainstream until 2010-2013 area. Up until then, Man In A Dress or Women Being Man was a comedic set up from Tyler Perry's Madea, Big Mama's House or Motocrosssed. And those were all 2000 films. Dave has lived 86% of his life with that topic being a sure way to get laughs. I'm not saying he should get a pass. But, if you think he's going to switch his view overnight, I wouldn't bet on that. Either one of his kids is going to have to transition or a slow burn will have to occur. For me to see him flip his position on that. But while he is punching down, he isn't advocating for a stagnation in progress. He just finds it funny to him. It's reckless talk.
And while I don't agree with 100% of what he says.( The car analogy for one. And the idea that you can't offend the alphabet people being a staple of Hollywood) I'm okay with him having his reckless talk because at the end of the day, he's a comedian. Not to downplay celebrity influence, but some people have compared his talk to having as much weight as if a politician said it. But Dave's a comedian. Comedians don't influence shit. As Hasan Minhaj said At the height of Jon Stewart's show, Bush won twice.

I'd be fine if this was his last special for a while. He's run out of steam on these topics. It didn't feel as intimate as Bird Revelation or as compact as the others. He just needs to step away now and make some more quality jokes. This felt like he was 90% whiffing it and improvising.
 

blacktout

Member
Jan 16, 2018
834
Chappelle is obviously anti-racist... he is pro transphobia and homophobia though.
I never said otherwise. I was replying directly to the suggestion that the joke could be read as giving racist whites permission to use the n-word, which I thought was a mischaracterization that didn't take into account the punchline.

Anyway, I don't have anything more to say about it and I am bowing out of this thread.
 
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