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Hollywood Reporter: Dave Chappelle Slams Michael Jackson Accusers and "Cancel Culture" in Netflix Special
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What does any of this have to do with transphobia?
Nobody is saying he's an alt right figurehead or leader and yes a lot of times the alt right will like innocent stuff because people enjoy a wide variety of things. But the fact that people are going to bat about specific segments that are shitty and that the alt right are celebrating BECAUSE of their commentary and not the comedy... I mean come on.
All the cuts make it equally obnoxious. How do people watch stuff like that?
I can't get in the heads of the Breitbart editorial staff, but if I had to guess on why they're making him into an alt-right icon along with The Daily Caller, Washington Examiner, etc. it's because of his relentless transphobia and their glee at having a shield for their own.
User Banned (Permanent): Modwhining, Hostility Towards Staff, and Misrepresenting Moderation Over Multiple Posts; Numerous Prior Bans for Similar Behavior
This got a ban? Christ, this might be the most egregious example of a mod's personal vendetta I've seen yet.
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Yes.
Of course they won't admit it. But if it's true that comedy has to appear to hold some truth to be funny, and people are laughing at the "truth" of transphobic jokes, it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to do the math.
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Its not true that comedy has to appear to hold truth to be funny.
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Nothing? I'm pointing out how silly it is calling him an alt-right icon.
uhh
He probably shouldn't have done it.
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It'd be pretty cool if there was literally any public accountability for mod action whatsoever!
This is why I hate the crowd reactions so much. I understand that Dave is just talking shit, but the crowd is buying his "the real victim are people who can't say f*****!" punchline as an actual message and they're agreeing with enthusiasm.
Yes, it would have gone differently, because the people in here agreeing with his transphobia by loving the transphobic jokes wouldn't be posting. They wouldn't have the excuse of "it's just comedy" to hide their bigotry behind.
How is this still unclear? The difference is one is a comedy routine in front of a paid audience that anyone can easily choose to ignore.
The other is POTUS representing an entire country.
lol yeah when i was like 17-18 in 2011-12 Defranco was the first youtuber i was into and where i got most of my "news" from. i would watch his show everyday. I think I stopped early into Obama's second term. lol I remember during the election he said he was voting for Johnson. had no idea what a libertarian was at that time so i thought nothing of it then. but soon after that i became more politically aware and drifted away from him.
To be clear, I'm not suggesting Chappelle self-identifies as alt-right, I'm saying that he's being taken up by members and key media of that movement seemingly because their views appear to match his around trans people and the rest of the LGBTQ community.
I was indicating the manner of the mockery - mocking them in the same way that Trump did. The comparison is drawn between the shark scenario and the abuse victims.
So that was never unclear, but also not what was being said.
yeahhh i got a p wild ban in the last "trump says Jews who vote dem are disloyal" thread last week. Like, i made a very mild comment which was followed by page after page of similar comments... but for some reason I was selected for a ban and no one else was even warned. I've never once complained about the moderation here but.... wth? lol
Which is why people like Dave shouldn't make certain jokes. He literally quit Chapelle show for that very reason yet lacks the self awareness to see that he's basically emulating the behavior of people who thought the joke was on black people. The problem with Dave's standup is not only the jokes he's making, it's also the part where he validates the transphobic and racist opinions of straight and white people. So they hear him say something like
"Why can I say nigger but not f*gg*t"
and think they should be allowed to say both.
this guy sucks so much. if he watched that documentary and this is takeaway he is so heinous. blooming into a full boomer comic.
the alt right would point to Chappelle's comments as a sort of validation of their views. Like hey, here's a black comedian saying some of the same terrible shit we do We can't be that mean and out of touch if Dave Chappelle is making similar jokes.
Yeah, you can, and you are, and so is he.
It is pretty fascinating how this one special has become a vortex of the culture war in just 2 days, but its also kinda sad that I am afraid to post any opinions on it on ERA.
I just did a quick search on twitter and in just 1 minute over 130 tweets with the word Chappelle went out. Crazy.
I've always thought of Dave Chappelle as a guy who has an extremely intuitive "pulse" on the nations social and culture wars, and I wonder if all the back and forth on this special - is he an old man yelling at the clouds, is he turning into a conservative, why is he so transphobic - is him fumbling with trying to tell us what the hot button issues in America are gonna be over the next 10 years.
I just did a quick search on twitter and in just 1 minute over 130 tweets with the word Chappelle went out. Crazy.
I've always thought of Dave Chappelle as a guy who has an extremely intuitive "pulse" on the nations social and culture wars, and I wonder if all the back and forth on this special - is he an old man yelling at the clouds, is he turning into a conservative, why is he so transphobic - is him fumbling with trying to tell us what the hot button issues in America are gonna be over the next 10 years.
I'm not going to wade into the really tricky larger conversation here, but I have to object to this characterization of his joke, since the punchline ("I'm not a [n-word] either.") is very explicitly anti-racist and the point is that the largely white Standards & Practices people were bringing a lot of unacknowledged racist assumptions to their assessment of his material and letting that prejudice color their perceptions of what he should and shouldn't be allowed to say.
Yes, sure, a racist could maliciously misconstrue that joke as a permission slip to use the n-word, but it seems like it would be a shame to kill one of the most brutally incisive (and once against: anti-racist) punchlines in the whole special because it might be manipulatively used by a group of people whose entire MO is taking shit out of context to justify their xenophobic worldview.
He might have had a finger on the pulse of American society and culture at one point, but he's clearly lost something in the time he spent on hiatus. Regardless of whether or not he can still be funny or not (that's entirely up to you), he clearly went from somebody who acknowledged that comedy is a game of testing limits (because those limits very much exist) to being just another cranky old comedian who that is mad he's not with it anymore and doesn't realize that he sold out years ago.
This was so obviously your point that I refuse to believe people weren't seeing it.
Might have something to do with the use of the word "icon". Words don't just stop having meanings.
That's right up there with his defense of using gay slurs.
Man he must have been so happy he found a trans person he can trot out to argue that by mocking our very existence he's actually legitimizing us lol
Nah fuck that.
People use comedy to spread hate on the dlow all the time.
Chappelle is absolutely using his comedy to strike at the trans community for daring to criticize him.
Oh boy can't wait for the most important take of all: The Enlightened YouTube "moderate"
Except bullshit because if they had asked him to stop using the N word, the routine would be about white people who invented the word and hit him with it now telling him he can't use it.
Which would be accurate
We literally mock white people, for good reason, who tell black folk they shouldn't use the n word.
The context of that joke is to claim Queers run Hollywood and how protected (lol!) LGBT people are from mockery and he uses a disingenuous comparison because at the end of the day he's a baby who got pissed he couldn't use gay slurs.
Chappelle is obviously anti-racist... he is pro transphobia and homophobia though.
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No. I used icon correctly in this thread. I posted a definition a number of pages back as well just in case anything was unclear.
There really is nothing to defend in the trans jokes in this one. There's no funny punchline nor incisive commentary (the one about gays and lesbians resenting trans people for making the struggle harder could have a germ of a point about how even marginalized people can recapitulate oppression, if the whole bit were crafted differently), just a lot of tired stereotypes and observations tied on the really weird and unfunny edifice of the car ride. And the less said about the Chinese joke, the better.
Tying this to the alt-right is rather ridiculous, though. If you want to understand the various strains of white supremacism in the US, I'd recommend the podcast "I Don't Speak German", which lays out rather clearly that the misogyny, homophobia, and transphobia in those communities is on a whole different level and has different philosophical underpinnings. This is pretty garden variety transphobia by comparison. That's not to excuse it, so much as to say that "alt-right" becomes even more useless as a term if it's affixed to every example of bigotry and intolerance out there.
Tying this to the alt-right is rather ridiculous, though. If you want to understand the various strains of white supremacism in the US, I'd recommend the podcast "I Don't Speak German", which lays out rather clearly that the misogyny, homophobia, and transphobia in those communities is on a whole different level and has different philosophical underpinnings. This is pretty garden variety transphobia by comparison. That's not to excuse it, so much as to say that "alt-right" becomes even more useless as a term if it's affixed to every example of bigotry and intolerance out there.
Watching this made me incredibly uncomfortable
I can't begin to process the amount of shit packed into that entire hour
I can't begin to process the amount of shit packed into that entire hour
I had a long post typed up, but it essentially boils down to
its a really disappointing event to see someone I like and idolize go down an unfortunate path.
its a really disappointing event to see someone I like and idolize go down an unfortunate path.
The reason I brought up the alt-right is because they seem to be clamoring to signal boost, celebrate and show connection with Chappelle. I'm not the one making the connection, they are. I'm just pointing it out here.
The reaction to the Michael Jackson bit is odd, however. He clearly mocks the sentiment of celebrities getting preferential treatment in society ("Come on, it's Michael Jackson!"), juxtaposes the horror of child molestation against gleeful celebrity worship ("The King of Pop sucked my dick!"), and ties itself up with an edgy but well-crafted punchline about Macaulay Culkin (the quotes definitely look worse without the "That kid is hard to catch!" line at the end). It's also basically a continuation of the Chappelle's Show bit where he refuses to believe in any black person's guilt due to the reality of systemic bias and constructs increasingly elaborate rationales to maintain that position.
It's fine to have personal no-go zones with respect to what you do or do not find funny, but it wasn't pushing anything ideologically offensive or untoward.
It's fine to have personal no-go zones with respect to what you do or do not find funny, but it wasn't pushing anything ideologically offensive or untoward.
User Banned (1 Month): Trolling in a sensitive thread; Dismissing concerns of transphobia; Prior severe ban for bigotry
I thought the special was hilarious. And genius.
EDIT: After reading through the thread, I think it's obvious some people just haven't seen enough comedy shows. This is what it is.
A lot of people said Dave fell off. I see the same Dave I've always seen. He's made fun of everyone.
And for the record, I think it's important to note that Dave Chappelle never said it was bad to be part of the LGBTQ+ community. Never once did he say it was bad, you shouldn't do it, or anything of that nature. He's always been one of those "fuck it, do you" kind of dudes.
Let's stop acting like he's a shit person, he's not.
EDIT: After reading through the thread, I think it's obvious some people just haven't seen enough comedy shows. This is what it is.
A lot of people said Dave fell off. I see the same Dave I've always seen. He's made fun of everyone.
And for the record, I think it's important to note that Dave Chappelle never said it was bad to be part of the LGBTQ+ community. Never once did he say it was bad, you shouldn't do it, or anything of that nature. He's always been one of those "fuck it, do you" kind of dudes.
Let's stop acting like he's a shit person, he's not.
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There's a difference between poking fun at people and outright mocking their existence in extremely negative ways. His trans jokes have always been the latter and he hasn't changed them at all despite outcry for years.
He can say whatever he wants about supporting other people, Trump held up an LGBT flag and that doesn't automatically make him free from homophobia🤷♀️
No he just thinks queers run Hollywood, and that trans people are in their very existence a punchline.
I've seen plenty, but thanks for dismissing the concerns of those in the thread as just being ignorant to "comedy".
Perhaps you've just not seen quality comedy where people don't need to punch down on Trans people and mock child abuse victims to get a chuckle.
Nah, fuck that. Mocking two people that were repeatedly raped, groomed and abused as children and claiming none of it happened is something that isn't just brushed off because the person saying it is on stage with a mic.
User Banned (Permanent): Rationalizing Transphobia; Prior Severe Ban for Legitimizing a Harassment Campaign
Im amazed they didn't bundle this with his last 2 specials. I felt this was the perfect end to what those last two started on. Outrage culture, #meetoo and other topics. This special is the hembodiment of what he started those specials on that comedy should be a place for "reckless talk" unbound to moderation as long as it gets a laugh. And the crowd was laughing.
IMO it wasn't as funny as any of his other specials nor did he say a lot new but I was entertained. It reminds me a lot of Aziz's last special which I found to be just Aziz trying a Bird Revelation approach but he isn't as good at crowd work as Chappelle and apart from an interesting directing type by Spike Jonze and there conveniently being a child in the front row for Aziz to riff on. He didn't have many jokes.
As for Chappelle, his reckless talk approach is what is getting him in trouble. He knows he's wrong. Seriously. He says not to watch Leaving Neverland because "it's gross" not because it's wrong but just because it is ruining one of his idols. It's no different than his superhero bit of "He rapes but he saves" to illustrate his relationship with Billl Cosby. Sadly, he isn't ready to accept Jackson's fall. He looked up to him more than Cosby. He loves Prince and Jackson.
Yet, the Jackson and Transgender approach isn't anything new from me. I know a shit ton of black people with his ideology. If you're part of my parents generation or older, transgenerism and genderfluidity is fucking weird to them. I get it. But I'm also a twenty-five years old dude. Transgenderism hasn't really been part of the mainstream until 2010-2013 area. Up until then, Man In A Dress or Women Being Man was a comedic set up from Tyler Perry's Madea, Big Mama's House or Motocrosssed. And those were all 2000 films. Dave has lived 86% of his life with that topic being a sure way to get laughs. I'm not saying he should get a pass. But, if you think he's going to switch his view overnight, I wouldn't bet on that. Either one of his kids is going to have to transition or a slow burn will have to occur. For me to see him flip his position on that. But while he is punching down, he isn't advocating for a stagnation in progress. He just finds it funny to him. It's reckless talk.
And while I don't agree with 100% of what he says.( The car analogy for one. And the idea that you can't offend the alphabet people being a staple of Hollywood) I'm okay with him having his reckless talk because at the end of the day, he's a comedian. Not to downplay celebrity influence, but some people have compared his talk to having as much weight as if a politician said it. But Dave's a comedian. Comedians don't influence shit. As Hasan Minhaj said At the height of Jon Stewart's show, Bush won twice.
I'd be fine if this was his last special for a while. He's run out of steam on these topics. It didn't feel as intimate as Bird Revelation or as compact as the others. He just needs to step away now and make some more quality jokes. This felt like he was 90% whiffing it and improvising.
IMO it wasn't as funny as any of his other specials nor did he say a lot new but I was entertained. It reminds me a lot of Aziz's last special which I found to be just Aziz trying a Bird Revelation approach but he isn't as good at crowd work as Chappelle and apart from an interesting directing type by Spike Jonze and there conveniently being a child in the front row for Aziz to riff on. He didn't have many jokes.
As for Chappelle, his reckless talk approach is what is getting him in trouble. He knows he's wrong. Seriously. He says not to watch Leaving Neverland because "it's gross" not because it's wrong but just because it is ruining one of his idols. It's no different than his superhero bit of "He rapes but he saves" to illustrate his relationship with Billl Cosby. Sadly, he isn't ready to accept Jackson's fall. He looked up to him more than Cosby. He loves Prince and Jackson.
Yet, the Jackson and Transgender approach isn't anything new from me. I know a shit ton of black people with his ideology. If you're part of my parents generation or older, transgenerism and genderfluidity is fucking weird to them. I get it. But I'm also a twenty-five years old dude. Transgenderism hasn't really been part of the mainstream until 2010-2013 area. Up until then, Man In A Dress or Women Being Man was a comedic set up from Tyler Perry's Madea, Big Mama's House or Motocrosssed. And those were all 2000 films. Dave has lived 86% of his life with that topic being a sure way to get laughs. I'm not saying he should get a pass. But, if you think he's going to switch his view overnight, I wouldn't bet on that. Either one of his kids is going to have to transition or a slow burn will have to occur. For me to see him flip his position on that. But while he is punching down, he isn't advocating for a stagnation in progress. He just finds it funny to him. It's reckless talk.
And while I don't agree with 100% of what he says.( The car analogy for one. And the idea that you can't offend the alphabet people being a staple of Hollywood) I'm okay with him having his reckless talk because at the end of the day, he's a comedian. Not to downplay celebrity influence, but some people have compared his talk to having as much weight as if a politician said it. But Dave's a comedian. Comedians don't influence shit. As Hasan Minhaj said At the height of Jon Stewart's show, Bush won twice.
I'd be fine if this was his last special for a while. He's run out of steam on these topics. It didn't feel as intimate as Bird Revelation or as compact as the others. He just needs to step away now and make some more quality jokes. This felt like he was 90% whiffing it and improvising.
I never said otherwise. I was replying directly to the suggestion that the joke could be read as giving racist whites permission to use the n-word, which I thought was a mischaracterization that didn't take into account the punchline.
Anyway, I don't have anything more to say about it and I am bowing out of this thread.
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