Honda set to close Swindon (UK) car plant

ReplacementPelican · Feb 19, 2019

Honestly, I'm not entirely comfortable with the amount of schadenfreude remain voters across the country seem to feel about this.

Consensus appears to be that the poor and less educated were essentially lied to by bad faith actors which, coupled with an apparent glee when places that voted leave get fucked (let alone that 45% of people in Swindon voted remain and many of them could work at this plant) is a bit poor taste.

This isn't necessarily aimed at anyone here, else I would have quoted you, but I do see the sentiment appear whenever something Brexit-related happens. This is a time to make the poor and less educated realise they've been fucked and lied to by successive governments that have conned them into disliking foreigners, not a time to further alienate them.

hEist · Feb 19, 2019

is there a statistic, how many companies (this year/last year) already announced leaving Britain/closing sites / how many people are losing there jobs?
Curious, how many jobs are already burned.

Funky Papa · Feb 19, 2019

ReplacementPelican said:
Honestly, I'm not entirely comfortable with the amount of schadenfreude remain voters across the country seem to feel about this.

Consensus appears to be that the poor and less educated were essentially lied to by bad faith actors which, coupled with an apparent glee when places that voted leave get fucked (let alone that 45% of people in Swindon voted remain and many of them could work at this plant) is a bit poor taste.

This isn't necessarily aimed at anyone here, else I would have quoted you, but I do see the sentiment appear whenever something Brexit-related happens. This is a time to make the poor and less educated realise they've been fucked and lied to by successive governments that have conned them into disliking foreigners, not a time to further alienate them.

This is what I mean when I talk about the damage to civil discourse. The radicalisation of the urban-rural and generational divides coupled with insanity like CRUSH THE SABOTEURS, not to mention the constant talk about the EU as some kind of Hidden Nazi Empire is much more dangerous than some people think. And it will have devastating political effects for generations to come.

Situations can easily spiral out of control the second you view your neighbour as the enemy instead of somebody with different or wrong opinions.

PrimeBeef · Feb 19, 2019

Don't worry, a MP talked with Honda and he was assured it had nothing to do with Brexit. So you guys can't Blame Brexit for this.

Gawge · Feb 19, 2019

Sir Hound · Feb 19, 2019

ReplacementPelican said:
Honestly, I'm not entirely comfortable with the amount of schadenfreude remain voters across the country seem to feel about this.

Consensus appears to be that the poor and less educated were essentially lied to by bad faith actors which, coupled with an apparent glee when places that voted leave get fucked (let alone that 45% of people in Swindon voted remain and many of them could work at this plant) is a bit poor taste.

This isn't necessarily aimed at anyone here, else I would have quoted you, but I do see the sentiment appear whenever something Brexit-related happens. This is a time to make the poor and less educated realise they've been fucked and lied to by successive governments that have conned them into disliking foreigners, not a time to further alienate them.

You can quote me in future: "whomp whomp"

Ask most of these chuckleheads whether they regret their vote, or try to tell them that no-one voted to make themselves poorer, and your response will instruct you on how much sympathy you should be feeling. They can all get fucked as far as I care.

xbhaskarx · Feb 19, 2019

In terms of jobs (or, uh, "paid work"), things are actually looking pretty good dot gif

https://twitter.com/Jacob_Rees_Mogg/status/1097803522274459648

https://twitter.com/JimMFelton/status/1097806523860959233

https://twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/status/1097804439468023808

DeltaRed · Feb 19, 2019

PrimeBeef said:
Don't worry, a MP talked with Honda and he was assured it had nothing to do with Brexit. So you guys can't Blame Brexit for this.

Kareha · Feb 19, 2019

Spine Crawler said:
i really have to ask some brits here on the forums. is it true? would people risk getting jobless for brexit?

They're that fucking stupid they think there won't be job losses, but at the end of the day all Brexiteers care about is kicking black people out of the country, fucking racist cunts.

Deleted member 26526 · Feb 19, 2019

Still pinning hopes on realising it was a colossal mistake and we go full EURO including currency

ManixMiner · Feb 19, 2019

xbhaskarx said:
In terms of jobs (or, uh, "paid work"), things are actually looking pretty good dot gif

https://twitter.com/Jacob_Rees_Mogg/status/1097803522274459648

LOL These figures are so misleading. if you work for more than an hour then you are classed as employed.

ReplacementPelican · Feb 19, 2019

Funky Papa said:
This is what I mean when I talk about the damage to civil discourse. The radicalisation of the urban-rural and generational divides coupled with insanity like CRUSH THE SABOTEURS, not to mention the constant talk about the EU as some kind of Hidden Nazi Empire is much more dangerous than some people think. And it will have devastating political effects for generations to come.

Situations can easily spiral out of control the second you view your neighbour as the enemy instead of somebody with different or wrong opinions.

When I was doing my dissertation, about five years ago, one of the students on my course had chosen to write about a potential exit form the EU. Back then it all seemed a bit silly but we used to have workgroups for our dissertations and practically came to the conclusion that is Teresa May's current deal or at the very least relatively similar as it was quite obvious from anyone with a more than basic knowledge of politics how it would actually play out.

The one thing we couldn't account for was the vitriol that has sprung up since.

Sir Hound said:
You can quote me in future: "whomp whomp"

Ask most of these chuckleheads whether they regret their vote, or try to tell them that no-one voted to make themselves poorer, and your response will instruct you on how much sympathy you should be feeling. They can all get fucked as far as I care.

It's a bit early for people to actually regret it, you know, before anything has happened. They probably don't feel poorer yet but also, I'll reiterate, there are probably people at that company, statistically just under half, that voted to remain and you're still acting like this about.

The people who did vote Leave have be failed by politicians, newspapers and people whom they trusted and admittedly most don't realise it yet but coming in with your 'whomps' and telling them to get fucked isn't going to help anything. Even if you're on the right side, you're still part of the problem.

HStallion · Feb 19, 2019

MasterSummerSmith462 said:
Idk, what do British people like to make?

Mistakes

Sir Hound · Feb 19, 2019

ReplacementPelican said:
The people who did vote Leave have be failed by politicians, newspapers and people whom they trusted and admittedly most don't realise it yet but coming in with your 'whomps' and telling them to get fucked isn't going to help anything. Even if you're on the right side, you're still part of the problem.

Unfortunately I'm not a man of infinite patience so this is tough shit. I've come to the conclusion that the only way Leave voters are going to understand Britain's future role in the world is to actually go through with this and see how we fare over the next 20 years. It might even require this coming generation who have never spoken to anyone who lived through Britain's "glory years", such as they were, to literally outlive everyone who's had their heads filed with empire. I'd rather spend those 20 years not poor, but if we have to take the scenic route then so be it.

Dougald · Feb 19, 2019

Could still be worse

Can you imagine??

Funky Papa · Feb 19, 2019

Sir Hound said:
Unfortunately I'm not a man of infinite patience so this is tough shit. I've come to the conclusion that the only way Leave voters are going to understand Britain's future role in the world is to actually go through with this and see how we fare over the next 20 years. It might even require this coming generation who have never spoken to anyone who lived through Britain's "glory years", such as they were, to literally outlive everyone who's had their heads filed with empire. I'd rather spend those 20 years not poor, but if we have to take the scenic route then so be it.

Many (most?) leave voters will be dead in 20 years. And like some absolute bastard put it, there were people who didn't vote Leave for their children, but for themselves.

So while I'm all for keeping the discourse civil, there's something to be said about the character of some people and why they need to face the repercusions of their actions in a swift, directly and blunt manner. Alas, any cuts to pensions and the NHS will impact everybody.

So while I find necessary not to paint the situation with broad strokes, at very least some people need to own their vote. The difficult thing is to make it without worsening the situation.

Cookie · Feb 19, 2019

Sir Hound said:
Unfortunately I'm not a man of infinite patience so this is tough shit. I've come to the conclusion that the only way Leave voters are going to understand Britain's future role in the world is to actually go through with this and see how we fare over the next 20 years. It might even require this coming generation who have never spoken to anyone who lived through Britain's "glory years", such as they were, to literally outlive everyone who's had their heads filed with empire. I'd rather spend those 20 years not poor, but if we have to take the scenic route then so be it.

It's not pretty and it's not nice but this is the sad fact of where we are right now. Everything has been tried, every statistic, every expert and every fact has been given to these people. However, they will not and cannot see what is right in front of them. We are at the point now where the only thing left is the actual bad things they have been warned about for the last 3 years.

They will lose their jobs, they will lose their towns and they will lose their rights. Maybe after 20 years of getting the ever loving shit beat out of them due to the consequences of Brexit they will come around. That or they will be dead and we will be able to fix this fucking mess that they left us with.

Thorrgal · Feb 19, 2019

Sir Hound said:
Unfortunately I'm not a man of infinite patience so this is tough shit. I've come to the conclusion that the only way Leave voters are going to understand Britain's future role in the world is to actually go through with this and see how we fare over the next 20 years. It might even require this coming generation who have never spoken to anyone who lived through Britain's "glory years", such as they were, to literally outlive everyone who's had their heads filed with empire. I'd rather spend those 20 years not poor, but if we have to take the scenic route then so be it.

I feel 20y is rather generous lol. More like 40-50.

Thorrgal · Feb 19, 2019

Cookie said:
It's not pretty and it's not nice but this is the sad fact of where we are right now. Everything has been tried, every statistic, every expert and every fact has been given to these people. However, they will not and cannot see what is right in front of them. We are at the point now where the only thing left is the actual bad things they have been warned about for the last 3 years.

They will lose their jobs, they will lose their towns and they will lose their rights. Maybe after 20 years of getting the ever loving shit beat out of them due to the consequences of Brexit they will come around. That or they will be dead and we will be able to fix this fucking mess that they left us with.

But in 20-30y people that are 25 will be 55 and will not vote like a 25y old but a 55y old, unfortunately. That goes for the left/right divide but also for "Brexit".

Plus let's see if EU want the UK to join again. As EU member national I'd vote "No thanks" now.

But we'll see in the future.

Deleted member 50969 · Feb 19, 2019

Gawge said:

She mocks the EU but I couldn't tell you what Labour has done for this country in the last 4 years.

Thorrgal · Feb 19, 2019

ReplacementPelican said:
This is a time to make the poor and less educated realise they've been fucked and lied to by successive governments that have conned them into disliking foreigners, not a time to further alienate them.

I don't think the reason why so many British dislike foreigners is because they've been conned by the goverment tbh.

Let's not remove responsability from the people. There's too many that voted leave to blame it all onto a goverment con.

Deleted member 50969 · Feb 19, 2019

Thorrgal said:
I don't think the reason why so many British dislike foreigners is because they've been conned by the goverment tbh.

Let's not remove responsability from the people. There's too many that voted leave to blame it all onto a goverment con.

Totally agree. Tory party may suck but the vote to leave was based on stupidity and was not a con job.

JonnyDBrit · Feb 19, 2019

Gawge said:

Framing it as merely some economic bloc is being frankly disingenuous though, particularly to those of us not solely of British descent. Yes, self-inflicted harm on this scale ain't grand, but it's a pretty safe bet many of them did so out of disgust for people with a surname like mine. So excuse me if I don't readily pour my heart out for them, and indeed, take a little catharsis in it.

That said, uninhibited sympathy for those who voted Remain - or didn't - and have nevertheless been screwed over by their cohorts. I live in Wiltshire at the moment, and seeing the reactions ripple out from this has been... Interesting.

ReplacementPelican · Feb 19, 2019

Sir Hound said:
Unfortunately I'm not a man of infinite patience so this is tough shit. I've come to the conclusion that the only way Leave voters are going to understand Britain's future role in the world is to actually go through with this and see how we fare over the next 20 years. It might even require this coming generation who have never spoken to anyone who lived through Britain's "glory years", such as they were, to literally outlive everyone who's had their heads filed with empire. I'd rather spend those 20 years not poor, but if we have to take the scenic route then so be it.

If that's you're worldview then fair play mate. I'd imagine most leave voters will be dead by the time they would have theoretically learnt their lessons though. If we're claiming responsibility then the first thing to be cut should be pensions.

Thorrgal said:
I don't think the reason why so many British dislike foreigners is because they've been conned by the goverment tbh.

Let's not remove responsability from the people. There's too many that voted leave to blame it all onto a goverment con.

Not trying to remove responsibility at all but people are more stupid and gullible than you give them credit for. I think when you're being told consistently that there's not enough to go around and there's too many people in schools, in hospitals, etc... And then turn that around and talk about immigration numbers. That feeling of tightening resources unequivocally changes the way people view immigration.

SpectreFox said:
Totally agree. Tory party may suck but the vote to leave was based on stupidity and was not a con job.

Tory party wasn't really Vote Leave as a unit though. Are you saying that you think none of the rhetoric around Vote Leave, notably the lies, actually affected the outcome?

Deleted member 50969 · Feb 19, 2019

ReplacementPelican said:
Tory party wasn't really Vote Leave as a unit though. Are you saying that you think none of the rhetoric around Vote Leave, notably the lies, actually affected the outcome?

No, I believe it was a mixture of things. Though, I do strongly believe the minute that Nigel Farage became an MEP and the Tories overstayed their welcome, we pretty much sign our leave warrant.

Thorrgal · Feb 19, 2019

ReplacementPelican said:
If that's you're worldview then fair play mate. I'd imagine most leave voters will be dead by the time they would have theoretically learnt their lessons though. If we're claiming responsibility then the first thing to be cut should be pensions.

Not trying to remove responsibility at all but people are more stupid and gullible than you give them credit for. I think when you're being told consistently that there's not enough to go around and there's too many people in schools, in hospitals, etc... And then turn that around and talk about immigration numbers. That feeling of tightening resources unequivocally changes the way people view immigration.

Tory party wasn't really Vote Leave as a unit though. Are you saying that you think none of the rhetoric around Vote Leave, notably the lies, actually affected the outcome?

I think you gave them more credit that they deserve, not me...as in "They're not really bigoted, they've been duped" ;)

I mean look at the polls, most would vote the same again so no dupe or con

BarryFishFinger · Feb 19, 2019

Not Brexit related then apparently. Response to global changes in the automotive industry which sounds legitimate I suppose? If the Swindon plant isn't set up for building electric vehicles.

ReplacementPelican · Feb 19, 2019

SpectreFox said:
No, I believe it was a mixture of things. Though, I do strongly believe the minute that Nigel Farage became an MEP and the Tories overstayed their welcome, we pretty much sign our leave warrant.

Fair play.

Thorrgal said:
I think you gave them more credit that they deserve, not me...as in "They're not really bigoted, they've been duped" ;)

I mean look at the polls, most would vote the same again so no dupe or con

I am not saying this doesn't make them bigoted because, well, they're bigoted. Suggesting that people's views and the expressions of them are cultivated and manipulated doesn't take away any responsibility for having those feelings. Nor does it necessarily make people redeemable.

Please also recognise my comment about foreigners was in the context of the perception of dwindling resources, not in a sense of just 'not liking' them so the broader point you're alluding to isn't entirely relevant.

I agree on the voting but their perceptions have already been altered and if there's one thing that a lot of people find it impossible to do, it's admit when they're wrong.

Sheepinator · Feb 19, 2019

ReplacementPelican said:
Honestly, I'm not entirely comfortable with the amount of schadenfreude remain voters across the country seem to feel about this.

Consensus appears to be that the poor and less educated were essentially lied to by bad faith actors which, coupled with an apparent glee when places that voted leave get fucked (let alone that 45% of people in Swindon voted remain and many of them could work at this plant) is a bit poor taste.

This isn't necessarily aimed at anyone here, else I would have quoted you, but I do see the sentiment appear whenever something Brexit-related happens. This is a time to make the poor and less educated realise they've been fucked and lied to by successive governments that have conned them into disliking foreigners, not a time to further alienate them.

That's the same nonsense I've seen people giving re Trump here in the US. The thing is, most of them don't regret their vote. I know someone who voted to Leave who is exhibiting the same schadenfreude at the upcoming "no deal brexit". He says he can't wait, bring it on. I saw a video of someone who owns a florist shop (via Sky) and if they can't get their just-in-time flowers their business and their employees are fucked. He voted to Leave! Now says he "didn't really think about his business". Well, what was he thinking of, foreigners? Same in the US like that guy who owns a golf course right on the border, he voted for Trump, and now Trump wants to use eminent domain to come after his land. Fuck them all. They made their bed. People need to understand their votes have consequences.

ReplacementPelican · Feb 19, 2019

Sheepinator said:
That's the same nonsense I've seen people giving re Trump here in the US. The thing is, most of them don't regret their vote. I know someone who voted to Leave who is exhibiting the same schadenfreude at the upcoming "no deal brexit". He says he can't wait, bring it on. I saw a video of someone who owns a florist shop (via Sky) and if they can't get their just-in-time flowers their business and their employees are fucked. He voted to Leave! Now says he "didn't really think about his business". Well, what was he thinking of, foreigners? Same in the US like that guy who owns a golf course right on the border, he voted for Trump, and now Trump wants to use eminent domain to come after his land. Fuck them all. They made their bed. People need to understand their votes have consequences.

Trump is a completely different kettle of fish and I disagree with the comparison being made. It's a good surface level analogy but I believe it goes veers far differently due to Trump being a single actor rather than a campaign and the horrendous things that single actor said which are outwardly racist, sexist and xenophobic. There's no coercion or duplicity with Trump, his horrendous views are surface level and unacceptable to agree with.

Also, yes, to an extent fuck individual people whom we can be certain of, not fuck everyone who works for a specific business regardless of however they voted.

LL_Decitrig · Feb 19, 2019

I don't think the word Schadenfreude should be used in this instance. Brexit seems likely to send us all to hell in a handbasket, so in the circumstances it's not inappropriate to excoriate those who voted for that outcome.

Remain voters have been comprehensively disenfranchised from the political process. While the cheerleaders for brexit have had the lion's share of the attention, almost the only mention made of the widespread opposition to this process have been screaming headlines calling us traitors and enemies of the people. In the circumstances, a few discrete "I told you so"s don't seem out of place. We're inwardly screaming, lamenting the imminent death of our children's future. This is us being polite.

Vern · Feb 19, 2019

Is Wernham-Hogg still there?

Honda set to close Swindon (UK) car plant

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