Honestly.....How are we supposed to defeat the cult of Trump when people want to sit out the election in November?

Oct 25, 2017
8,014
Educate people on how fucking important the Supreme Court and the Lower Courts are, because you are all FUCKED for the rest of your lives if Trump wins and he gets 1-2 more Conservative Judges in the Supreme Court... and that's without even mentioning the hundreds of Judges in the other courts.

Just thinking about 7-2 decisions should scare everyone into fucking voting.
 

BWoog

Member
Oct 27, 2017
18,210
We're a bubble. Trump BARELY BARELY beat Hillary Clinton in 2016, the most hated Democratic candidate. People LOVE Biden and don't look at his gaffes in the same light as we do. Fight like hell, fight for your loved ones lives, but it's not hopeless.
 

Cor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,418
If you genuinely believe that there are enough bernie or busters out there to swing the election for trump, its in your best interest to try and convince other biden voters to vote for bernie and make that guy somehow get the nom.
 

Cipherr

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,014
Educate people on how fucking important the Supreme Court and the Lower Courts are, because you are all FUCKED for the rest of your lives if Trump wins and he gets 1-2 more Conservative Judges in the Supreme Court... and that's without even mentioning the hundreds of Judges in the other courts.

I remember trying this in 2016. Going directly at posters in threads claiming they would sit it out because Hillary was the nom. I would get either no response or something regarding a /shrug.

There's a lot of people that really really don't give a shit. I think its easy to miss that because those same people can appear so engaged and militant; then turn on a dime once a nominee doesn't "excite them enough" to save the country from 50 years of right wing lunacy under a stacked supreme court.

As far as I am concerned there is no greater litmus test for how much you truly care for progressivism in this country outside of your views on the makeup of the Supreme Court. It is such a humongous deal in the U.S. that if you are willing to sacrifice its lifetime terms to Republicans for anything; As far as Im concerned you are just blowing smoke and pretending to give a shit.
 

G_Shumi

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,705
Cleveland, OH
Yeah, I'm not understanding that rhetoric either. Most people didn't vote in 2016 and that's partially how we got Trump as president. If people sit out in November 2020 again, we're just repeating it.

Trump won by people not voting. The only way he's going to go away is if people actually get out and vote.
 

thoughthaver

Banned
Feb 6, 2020
292
i have no faith in a man and a party who railed against a public health system during a fucking pandemic. so yeah. eternal fuck to the democratic establishment and their wealthy donors.
 
Oct 27, 2017
17,378
Seattle
You shouldn’t take the loud/angry twitter vote as indicative of large majority of the public, the primary should have made that abundantly clear.
 

Shaun Solo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
771
One interesting point is that if COVID19 is still around, mildly intelligent people will be rightfully hesitant about exposing themselves at voting stations, and conservative idiots will just brazenly go out and endanger themselves and their families.

Sigh.
If it's still around in Nov (I don't see how it isn't with this admin) we need national, automatic Vote-By-Mail registration for all registered voters. Because this makes sense it won't happen.

Love this country.
 

BWoog

Member
Oct 27, 2017
18,210
i have no faith in a man and a party who railed against a public health system during a fucking pandemic. so yeah. eternal fuck to the democratic establishment and their wealthy donors.
Trump will be worse. Regardless of your feelings, Trump will be worse. Far worse.

Even Ted Cruz would be handling this shit light years better right now.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,537
The people who are going to sit out will not be enough to matter so I wouldn't worry about it. Let them pound their keyboards.
 

thediamondage

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,870
Trump's already won 2020, you may as well get yourself used to it. There just isn't the level of a leader like Obama or JFK or Bill Clinton to rally and inspire opposition, Pelosi's miscalculations and Biden's gaffes are probably going to end up increasing Trump's winning percentage giving him a mandate to do whatever fuckery he thinks up next.
 
OP
OP
TheGhost

TheGhost

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,472
Long Island
Trump's already won 2020, you may as well get yourself used to it. There just isn't the level of a leader like Obama or JFK or Bill Clinton to rally and inspire opposition, Pelosi's miscalculations and Biden's gaffes are probably going to end up increasing Trump's winning percentage giving him a mandate to do whatever fuckery he thinks up next.
you don’t need to be in love with a candidate to dethrone trump. I’m just waiting for the sitters to realize that.
 
Aug 12, 2019
1,387
I mean, there are genuinely only a small percentage of anti-Biden voters even in the progressive wing of the party because a great deal of the left understands harm reduction at the very least. There was next to no difference in exit polls between those who said they wouldn't vote for the nominee between Biden and Bernie supporters, so this is almost entirely a fearmongering thing as both sides of the party seem pretty much in unison, and the key idea behind this election and primary seems to be "Beating Trump." That's what we're seeing greater voter turnout for more than anything else right now and that's the issue at the top of their priorities in voting come November.

But if the DNC and Biden want the genuinely further left people to come along, Biden needs to tack further left and speak to those ideas more often. The issue with the Democratic party is that it's a massive tent and that people have standards and lines that they're not always willing to cross. There are left leaning people (and independents and even lapsed Democrats who have voted Republican more recently) that are not sold on the idea of "Return to normal" because "normal" wasn't great to begin with for many of them, and Biden isn't as individually popular as some people on here may believe (He isn't hated as much as Clinton was in 2016 by any stretch of the imagination, but he tends to do much more poorly outside of the standard voting Democratic party such as Independents and his relationship with Latino-American voters leaves much to be desired). That's why its harder to unite the party at the moment because Biden isn't exactly an inspiring candidate for a lot of people.

Like people will vote for Biden come November because, again, most left leaning people understand risk management and harm reduction, but I don't think there is ever going to be much of a "coming together, uniting" beyond that general turnout to beat Trump. You're just never going to see this massive big tent party move in step like the Republican party beyond defeating Trump... and largely these divisions will fracture once Trump is beaten and there's less of a desire for "unity" between the sides.
 

Blue Skies

Member
Mar 27, 2019
8,003
Trump's already won 2020, you may as well get yourself used to it. There just isn't the level of a leader like Obama or JFK or Bill Clinton to rally and inspire opposition, Pelosi's miscalculations and Biden's gaffes are probably going to end up increasing Trump's winning percentage giving him a mandate to do whatever fuckery he thinks up next.
There’s like record turnout in this primary
And most of it went to biden
 

Xaszatm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,720
You had that and no one voted for him, the end, he is done, now it’s time for you to vote trump out.
You realize that this attitude, this vote because it's your duty just does the opposite, right? I've told you how in the past to get people to vote for Biden and you choose to misinterpret what I was saying. To get people to vote for Joe you need to give them something to vote for beyond "I'm not Trump". Don't vote shame people and mock them because that will cause them to dig their heels. Focus on those who haven't already made up their mind. There are plenty of things that will get or at least get people to think about voting.
 

Agar25

Banned
Apr 12, 2018
7,410
I was for Warren, then Bernie, and really don’t like Joe Biden but if anyone can look at the state of how the Trump administration is handling Corona and still not care to remove all these clowns from office… then something is very wrong with how you perceive the world. Hurts to say it but here we go Uncle Joe in November
 

RedMercury

Member
Dec 24, 2017
10,503
Nothing is going to change the cult without drastic individual and community action at a large scale that would be more disruptive than this virus, but as far as voting please be mindful that for some people in not as good health they do not want to die, and I don't think we should be mad at them for staying home if it comes to that.
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,684
If it’s any consolation turnout blew up this month, and it largely resounded to Biden’s benefit. So while he isn’t the candidate of choice for online progressives there’s clearly a pretty big appetite among voters for pushing Trump out of office in favor of Biden.

Look to the midterms for solace. While a lot of darling candidates fell short (Abrams, Beto, McGrath, Gillum) Dems still flipped the House, a couple Senate seats, a bunch of governsorhips and hundreds of state seats. There will always be people who refuse to vote in the general if their candidate doesn’t get the nomination. But there are many many many many more people who are desperate to remove Trump from office this year. And given how many people turned out for Biden this month despite having ostensibly one of the weakest campaigns of the last group of candidates, I and we just have to trust that the guy can pull it off. And vote to make it happen.
 

jay

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,441
Wasn't there a study that showed if everyone voted it would basically just be more of the same proportionately?
 

emag

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,218
The good have to stand up and outnumber the bad.

That’s all there is to it.
This response from OP is relevant:

You had that and no one voted for [good], the end, [good] is done
Speaking of which, OP, why aren’t you angry at everyone who failed to vote for Sanders and gave us a monster like Biden instead? Is this just about tribes to you?

(Don’t worry, I’ll hold my nose and vote for the “lesser” evil again this November.)
 
Oct 26, 2017
10,345
UK
You had that and no one voted for him, the end, he is done, now it’s time for you to vote trump out.
Wow, I'm shook you can't convince anybody.

When push comes to shove it won't matter. Old folks make up the majority of voters and Joe's way more popular than Hilary. The majority of Bernie supporters will still vote dem because they know the GoP would be slightly worse with maybe some protest votes in super safe states. And Bernie will campaign harder than Biden for Biden in the most crucial states. Then add to that a new financial crisis and it's hard to see how Joe loses despite doing nothing to earn it.
 
OP
OP
TheGhost

TheGhost

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,472
Long Island
This response from OP is relevant:



Speaking of which, OP, why aren’t you angry at everyone who failed to vote for Sanders and gave us a monster like Biden instead? Is this just about tribes to you?

(Don’t worry, I’ll hold my nose and vote for the “lesser” evil again this November.)
Because I knew Bernie was a pipe dream, and I’m not going to contribute to helping people fall in love with a candidate that was never going to win and thus grow the base of bitterness.

Biden is far from a monster but he is no angel. What he is......is electable. As shown week after week.

Both candidates are old as fuck and they should be protected for different reasons.

Biden to beat trump
And Bernie to talk sense into the base be lost control of.

he is the only person they will listen to, well he needs to tell them to vote because obviously voting out trump is not reason enough. As ridiculous as that is to type.
 

digdug2k

Member
Mar 28, 2018
976
Additionally it partially matters where you're seeing these comments. People sitting out California or New York aren't going to do shit because their state's delegates are essentially already decided.
The comments trickle out. A campaign of "Biden sucks. Vote Biden (except I'm not going to)!" really just isn't going to win.
 
Jan 10, 2018
5,226
But how come the other side can just get behind this shit stain but over here on the flip side we can afford to be like “nah....I’m good”

we can’t afford to do that when we have to deal with a whole nation of people that circle the wagons around him. Yeah this isn’t about NY and Cali, but this is about everyone else.
One side demands perfection, which you will never get, the other side demands the other side to suffer. Which is pretty easy to achieve.

Obama was a once in a lifetime President and everyone in this thread will find ways to be mad at him.
 

Mewshuji

Member
Nov 11, 2017
3,805
Biden has a past of putting down marginalized groups not dissimilar to Trump's, most notably with how he headed a disastrous crime bill, and was a part of the administration that started the biggest mark against Trump's administration ("children in cages"; they just weren't separated under said administration, as if children or anyone in cages is remotely acceptable and worth debating the merits of). He offers zero compelling initiatives, bills, or plans to tackle our country's biggest issues, especially not tackling climate change-- this is no doubt so as to not upset his corporate funding; everything and anything he's put forth is a band-aid for a gaping wound, metaphorically.

Frankly, he has only three strong points to run on against Trump: He's not Trump (which literally any other person in the world is), he appeals to conservative Democrats, and he was Obama's VP.

He's not Trump is the hardest one to tackle. Anyone versed in his history or indeed, history in general, will know that at best he'll just enable Trump 2.0 to come in and ruin civilization in 2024/2028. At worst? Well, perhaps he'll simply be as a Republican president, but let's not pretend that Ronald Reagan and both Bushes are in any way preferable to Trump (not that, of course, Trump is acceptable either). You need to essentially run contrary to facts and tell marginalized people to overlook the harm he's done to them for a "greater good" that'll still harm them. You basically need to play up the fact he's NOT TRUMP, and we know that helped cost numerous less-than-impressive Dems their elections.

His appeal to conservative Democrats is... easiest, of course, as they're almost universally wonks or old well-off people and they WILL go vote. But how many are there, really, country wide? I'd argue there's more progressive or leftist Democrats now, and you're definitely losing a decent chunk of the leftists by putting forward Biden- not even necessarily most, but a good chunk. You basically need to activate centrists that don't vote and aren't Democrats or Republicans, which, I'm not sure there are that many of.

Obama's VP, well, I mean, that's true, and seems to win him fondness from people, but I legitimately wonder how much that'll help when you reckon with his other two "strong points" which may in fact cancel that fact out.

Really, these three aside, what you need more than anything else is an energized base. People who will go out and canvass for Biden, who will call and text for Biden, who will put their relationships with family on the line advocating for him. A lot of Biden's base doesn't want conflict. They want peace. They also want to just vote and be done with it. The concept of getting involved is beyond them. They're not going to champion Biden. And even if Bernie campaigners vote for Biden, they're not going to do all of that for him that they did for Bernie. And why should they? And without that energized campaign base... how in the world are you gonna convince nonvoters to come out?

I will say, for my part, I will be voting in the general and won't be voting Trump, and that's all I'll say. I will also say, and will continue to say, a vote for Biden in the primary is a vote for Trump in the general. As has been brought up elsewhere, there was the option to solve our existential problems, or to not and just focus on "ORANGE MAN BAD", and for whatever reason, voters didn't choose that. Could be systemic voter suppression, could be COVID, could be this damnable country really is filled with selfish ghouls.

Frankly, I also think it's less important to ensure whoever the Democratic nominee is wins even if it IS Bernie, and more important to get people out to vote downballot and locally. Trump can't get anything he wants done if we get leftists like AoC or Ilhan, or even left-friendly liberals like Warren, into Congress. And one good function of the US's abysmal structure is how powerful local governance is. Voting for your governor, your representatives in state legislator, your mayors, and so on, are just as important as voting for the president or national Congresspeople. Because even if things are fucked for people elsewhere in the US, your city or state can perhaps be a beacon for what can be done.

Educate people on how fucking important the Supreme Court and the Lower Courts are, because you are all FUCKED for the rest of your lives if Trump wins and he gets 1-2 more Conservative Judges in the Supreme Court... and that's without even mentioning the hundreds of Judges in the other courts.

Just thinking about 7-2 decisions should scare everyone into fucking voting.
I keep seeing this pop up, but how do we know Biden wouldn't put conservative judges into the court? It'd fit his modus operandi, quite frankly. He has promised to nominate a black woman, true, but it isn't as if being black or being a woman inherently prevents someone from being conservative. And there's still more than one person to put on the court. Frankly, the courts were lost in 2016, failing one of the conservatives suddenly stepping down or dying.
 

Bonafide

Member
Oct 11, 2018
788
I mean, there are genuinely only a small percentage of anti-Biden voters even in the progressive wing of the party because a great deal of the left understands harm reduction at the very least. There was next to no difference in exit polls between those who said they wouldn't vote for the nominee between Biden and Bernie supporters, so this is almost entirely a fearmongering thing as both sides of the party seem pretty much in unison, and the key idea behind this election and primary seems to be "Beating Trump." That's what we're seeing greater voter turnout for more than anything else right now and that's the issue at the top of their priorities in voting come November.

But if the DNC and Biden want the genuinely further left people to come along, Biden needs to tack further left and speak to those ideas more often. The issue with the Democratic party is that it's a massive tent and that people have standards and lines that they're not always willing to cross. There are left leaning people (and independents and even lapsed Democrats who have voted Republican more recently) that are not sold on the idea of "Return to normal" because "normal" wasn't great to begin with for many of them, and Biden isn't as individually popular as some people on here may believe (He isn't hated as much as Clinton was in 2016 by any stretch of the imagination, but he tends to do much more poorly outside of the standard voting Democratic party such as Independents and his relationship with Latino-American voters leaves much to be desired). That's why its harder to unite the party at the moment because Biden isn't exactly an inspiring candidate for a lot of people.

Like people will vote for Biden come November because, again, most left leaning people understand risk management and harm reduction, but I don't think there is ever going to be much of a "coming together, uniting" beyond that general turnout to beat Trump. You're just never going to see this massive big tent party move in step like the Republican party beyond defeating Trump... and largely these divisions will fracture once Trump is beaten and there's less of a desire for "unity" between the sides.
yep

the democratic's party idea of unity is basically just moderate and shut up lmao. we're just going to do the same shit again from 2008 except you dont have a candidate people who arent "political reality" punch drinkers really want to vote for, hes just a protest vote against trump.
 

Pickle

Member
Oct 27, 2017
443
Democrats asked for it by propping up Biden. I will vote, but it will be symbolic and not for him or Trump. Fuck it.
 
Dec 11, 2017
8,845
Well, it's hard to get excited to go out and vote for someone when the candidate being propped up by the Democratic establishment is this guy.

Yeah but we really need to stop with the whole “excitement” thing. Frankly the notion of not continuing to gut the environment, deny climate change, commit ethics violations, potentially completely repeal ACA, fuck the education system, weaken our response to basically any crisis - that should be enough to mobilize people. Especially with a good VP pick we can undo a lot of damage and make progress. Anyone who sits out because that’s not “exciting” can go fuck themselves.
 

Dartastic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,024
Yeah but we really need to stop with the whole “excitement” thing. Frankly the notion of not continuing to gut the environment, deny climate change, commit ethics violations, potentially completely repeal ACA, fuck the education system, weaken our response to basically any crisis - that should be enough to mobilize people. Especially with a good VP pick we can undo a lot of damage and make progress. Anyone who sits out because that’s not “exciting” can go fuck themselves.
It SHOULD be, but the reality is there are a lot of people who absolutely fucking love everything that comes out of the president's mouth and a lot of ignorant people who don't pay attention to shit much. Granted, nobody knows how this pandemic will change political calculus in this country but traditionally I'd argue that yes, you do need an exciting candidate.
 

Chasex

Member
Oct 29, 2017
930
It would be interesting to see how radically this country would change in one election cycle if people could vote via an app on their phone. Like for real, the only reason we have the people we do right now is because so many people don't vote.
 

JCizzle

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
2,925
I keep seeing this pop up, but how do we know Biden wouldn't put conservative judges into the court? It'd fit his modus operandi, quite frankly. He has promised to nominate a black woman, true, but it isn't as if being black or being a woman inherently prevents someone from being conservative. And there's still more than one person to put on the court. Frankly, the courts were lost in 2016, failing one of the conservatives suddenly stepping down or dying.
What black woman in a position to be nominated to the Supreme Court is anywhere close to Kavanaugh? You’re totally fine with another guy like that making the court? Ok. This is like a feverish conspiracy to not vote Biden. He’s simply not going to nominate someone equal or worse than Kavanaugh if elected and I think we all know that.
 

Azuran

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,343
Trump has it in the bag because Biden is by far the most boring and unispired candidate that has come around in years. I can't even imagine that senile moderate rallying people to the polls lol

Democrats shooting themselves in the foot again. Nothing we haven't seen before.
 

JCizzle

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
2,925
Trump has it in the bag because Biden is by far the most boring and unispired candidate that has come around in years. I can't even imagine that senile moderate rallying people to the polls lol

Democrats shooting themselves in the foot again. Nothing we haven't seen before.
Yet he’s doing just that...
 

KrigareN-

Member
Dec 13, 2017
1,979
I've been actively supporting Bernie since 2016, but I will never understand the "Bernie or Bust" mentality.

If you're not voting against Trump, you're complicit in all his fuckery.

Don't @ me.
 

JCizzle

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
2,925
Well, it's hard to get excited to go out and vote for someone when the candidate being propped up by the Democratic establishment is this guy.

On the other hand, this candidate sounds significantly better than the alternative in November.

 

Dierce

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,489
Berners are just maybe 1% of the entire electorate. Not really worried about them at all but they will do all they can for trump to get reelected. So I don't look forward to their anti-Biden and anti-democratic party propaganda but don't think that it will have much effect.

Biden might not be an inpiring candidate but for many moderates and even progressives he is more than enough to defeat trump because that is the ultimate goal. And these people clearly outnumber the cult of personality driven fraction of Sanders devoted following who sadly happen to be the loudest.
 

Critch

Banned
Dec 10, 2017
823
95% of Bernie voters voted for Clinton. This time around, there's even less Bernie holdouts and more Democratic voters. HIllary was hated, Biden is well-liked.

Most of the noise now are the ones that couldn't be counted on to vote or more Russian noise. It's a sad state that we still have so much of that here, even in this thread, who want to try and push a Dementia narrative, which is idiotic considering what the competition sounds like every day.
 

Yerffej

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,219
I certainly wouldn’t feel the need to be respectful to people who decide to sit it out, OP. They deserve none, and they’ll get much worse if the consequences for doing so leads to 4 more years of this twat in office.
 

molnizzle

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,937
We're a bubble. Trump BARELY BARELY beat Hillary Clinton in 2016, the most hated Democratic candidate. People LOVE Biden and don't look at his gaffes in the same light as we do. Fight like hell, fight for your loved ones lives, but it's not hopeless.
Trump is far more popular among Republicans today than he was in 2016.