Hong Kong Airport cancel all flight due to protester gathering due to police and govt action [UP: Second day of protests]

Pandora012

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,342
You know, if this is a part of some bigger geopolitical goals you think Canada should have that's one thing, but maybe let's not pretend we're doing it for the people in Hong Kong.
Because I don't know, maybe I'm missing something, but those suggestions always seem to be about hurting China economically, and it's very hard for me to imagine that life would be better in Hong Kong if China was in a recession.
You do it because of the ghreay it can pose ro them. You think China would want to get hurt economically for HK? The issue with this however is that china can take everyone down with them.
 

LittleBee

Member
Mar 15, 2019
194


This video makes the protesters look bad, why are they instigating the police. They basically are looking for trouble.

I think it's going to keep escalating to the point of no return. It's gonna be bad.
 

Kolbe1894

Member
Oct 25, 2017
796
they can protest all they want, do it in a peaceful way and should respect people with different voice.
Now, tell me how you feel about this


And this is what he said in Facebook.
Sooooooo, the Airport turned out kinda crazy for me tonight. Had been live tweeting the discovery of the Chinese cop since it first happened.
After about an hour of him being quizzed, they tried to move him. It seemed that they would exit him via a human passageway. I was right at the front of the passageway ready to film it. It quickly became apparent that it wasn’t a passage way out but a gauntlet for a mass beating. The guy was already beaten up. Now the crowd began to punch and kick him.
Other media looked on and filmed. But I’m just not this kind of person, and I had to protect him, with my own body for nearly 40 mins.
Pretty intense.
Now...
I support escalation. I vividly understand how angry Hong Kongers are. I know I shouldn’t get actively involved. I also know that he was a Chinese cop, dressed as a protester, caught with sticks, and so had evil intentions towards HK.
But on a human level I could not stand by, or even walk away from a man being beaten to a pulp.
So yeah it was a rough ride.
The angry protesters respected what I was doing, and never intentionally hit me, not once. But, I got a few accidental knocks.
-
I’m sorry this happened.
I dunno what the outcome should’ve been. I don’t even know if my protecting him with my own body was the right thing to do.
-
This isn’t a war. It’s a revolution, we’re fighting a system, not individuals.
I think many protesters acted really badly tonight.
But, I also blame the HK police too. Their actions on Sunday, when they dressed up as protesters and then started beating and arresting people changed everything. Everyone is on a hair trigger now and riddled with paranoia and anger.
I said on Sunday, after this despicable tactic, any cop or agent provocateur caught by the protesters would be in life threatening danger. Well, I was proven right tonight, and also got a proxy beating for it. 🤣
Anyway, I’m all fine. A few scratches and bruises over my body and face.
HK is very much broken. Only the government can stop this.
In the meantime, get out and protest whenever you can. Every little will help in the long run.
Footnote:I don’t believe the people trying to hurt the cop were other cops or agent provocateurs. I believe they were really angry protesters. Why do I think this? Bcus I would’ve been beaten much more if that was the case. The protesters never deliberately hit me, no matter how much I tried to stop them.
 

Dekuman

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,329
You know, if this is a part of some bigger geopolitical goals you think Canada should have that's one thing, but maybe let's not pretend we're doing it for the people in Hong Kong.
Because I don't know, maybe I'm missing something, but those suggestions always seem to be about hurting China economically, and it's very hard for me to imagine that life would be better in Hong Kong if China was in a recession.
You know, This is the most convoluted self serving argument I've read. If your argument is trade is not a good tool to show displeasure in the great game of diplomacy, then China obviously didn't get the memo. But apparently, we have to play by different rules.
 

Chikor

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,379
You know, This is the most convoluted self serving argument I've read. If your argument is trade is not a good tool to show displeasure in the great game of diplomacy, then China obviously didn't get the memo. But apparently, we have to play by different rules.
My argument was that I don't understand how that suppose the people of Hong Kong, and I thought that who we're trying to help here.
I still don't. Maybe I don't properly understand what you're suggesting.
 

Dekuman

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,329
My argument was that I don't understand how that suppose the people of Hong Kong, and I thought that who we're trying to help here.
I still don't. Maybe I don't properly understand what you're suggesting.
I'm suggesting trade is the usual tool in state to state dealings, highlighting examples China has used trade to do so. Your argument is akin to saying we can't do anything to hurt China, even if Hong Kong is hurt incidentally. I sort of vaguely see your self-interested point, but it smacks of pro China apologia and I am trying very hard not to go to my default conclusion
 

Chikor

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,379
I'm suggesting trade is the usual tool in state to state dealings, highlighting examples China has used trade to do so. Your argument is akin to saying we can't do anything to hurt China.
I understand that it can be used as a tool, I'm not sure how would you use it as a tool to help Hong Kong now, and I don't feel that you're really explaining it to me terribly well.
But you know what, me failing to understand that seem to really really upset people, and I feel people assume a whole lot about me because of this (I wish people will accuse me in less vague terms in the future). Like, I'm almost certain I'm not a bot. But one can never be to sure. What's that? a tortoise?
So we can drop it.

p.s.
English is not my native language though, this is true.
 

OutOfcontrol

Member
Oct 29, 2017
242
Wow f off with that propaganda, the HK people have the right to punch and kick the fascist police force just like we have the right to beat the shit out of alt-right Nazis. Besides one of the protesters was blinded when a cop shot her in the face.
Here is the video clip (left side is the live steam to look at, right steams are Wan Chai ) of the incident that a female protester got shot blind outside of Tsim Sha Tsui police station
At the start of the video, the situation was relatively calm, no police in sign.
Around 44s, reporters start to rush towards the police station, where a female protester found injured in her face/eye and is getting medical attention, there are billboards between the police station & the injured protester.
No police in sight nor any gun shot heard
There were lot of reporters around and not a single one of them has video / photo shows there was police nearby when the protester get injured


]

We later got photo flooding around shows a bean bag round stuck in a goggle



The female protester has been sent to Queen Elizabeth Hospital.
Up to this point, there is still no any confirmed report on what was the cause of the injury.
Some says it may be missfire from slingshot by the protesters, some says it may be bean bag around by police.
Police spokesman says there are unsure what was the cause at the moment and urge the victim to file a case for investigate

PS: the ambulance there was mean to be for the police who got attacked by gasoline bomb, his leg feet received secondary degree burn and right feet received first degree burn
 
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OutOfcontrol

Member
Oct 29, 2017
242
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hanshen

Member
Jun 24, 2018
966
Chicago, IL
That's not what he was claiming, he's stated two different statement and you're conflating multipe incident into one.
And lumping all protester into one group when there is no leadership, when it should be the individual, but you don't use the same metric for Police and government action.

1. At midnight One chinese mainlander man(Unamed) was found with I love police T-shirt, surrounded and held against his will by some protester with zip tie
But legaslator Kwok Ka-ki and Fernando Cheung was able to desculate the situation with protester and help him away



The second incident occured at around 6PM another man was surrouned and suspected to be a public safety officer from Schezhan(Similiar name, the last name only has one tiny difference)
He's claiming to be working in Schezhan, and was only there to take his friend to the airport.
But due to the similiar name as a Public Safety Officer, was surrouned and held captive by protester against his will and had physical harm done to him by some
8 PM, Paramedic was able to reach the man, and secure him, but was not able to leave him him, and 3 police unit was dispatched to escort the medical personal and man out at 10:45PM

A third man in a grey shirt was founded to be holding nun-chuck type weapon, and was surrounded by protester

Another group of Protester has engaged in hooligism style behavior, bypassing the south gate, and using the luggage cart(Like Taiwan, HK luggage cart is free, not like America) to form a blockade

Another group was blocking the 2nd Departure gate, preventing normal people, including woman and children from leaving.




The state media is playing up the story about the Global Times reporter. It was a set up and they fell for it. Global Times is state sponsored trash, but you don't tie people to a cart over a fucking tshirt.
 

JetmanJay

Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,100
Here is the video clip (left side is the live steam to look at, right steams are Wan Chai ) of the incident that a female protester got shot blind outside of Tsim Sha Tsui police station
At the start of the video, the situation was relatively calm, no police in sign.
Around 44s, reporters start to rush towards the police station, where a female protester found injured in her face/eye and is getting medical attention, there are billboards between the police station & the injured protester.
No police in sight nor any gun shot heard
There were lot of reporters around and not a single one of them has video / photo shows there was police nearby when the protester get injured


]

We later got photo flooding around shows a bean bag round stuck in a goggle



The female protester has been sent to Queen Elizabeth Hospital.
Up to this point, there is still no any confirmed report on what was the cause of the injury.
Some says it may be missfire from slingshot by the protesters, some says it may be bean bag around by police.
Police spokesman says there are unsure what was the cause at the moment and urge the victim to file a case for investigate

PS: the ambulance there was mean to be for the police who got attacked by gasoline bomb, his leg feet received secondary degree burn and right feet received first degree burn
Maybe the police should put the batons down and join their own countrymen and families to fight an authoritarian government then instead of joining Triad gangs to beat kids with them.

Whatever happened to that poor girls’ eye, she was out there to protest and try do some good.
 

Zed

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,498
I can see this whole thing getting Occupy Wallstreet'd by having the protesters become demonized by the media.
 

Chikor

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,379
I can see this whole thing getting Occupy Wallstreet'd by having the protesters become demonized by the media.
This is an occupy movement.
They don't seem to use the term so much this time around, but this is direct continuation of Occupy Central in 2011 and OCLP Occupy in 2014.
I suspect that they will be vilified by Chinese media no matter what, but I don't think the western media will follow suite.
 

Kaseoki

Member
Oct 27, 2017
583
They are all 30 40 year olds, that was how the undercover guys got marked.
There are young and new hire policemen/triads too you know. All policemen/thugs have to be 30/40 years old now? There have been plenty of photos and videos of this and the police have even admitted to using them. They are young looking. Please go and have a look.

 

Aestivalis

Member
Nov 4, 2018
865
The video of that captured mainlander journalist has been circulating wildly on Chinese social media since last night.
It's like 2/3 of my timeline is people reposting the same image to say that they are with the HK police.
It's really scary.
 

Kaseoki

Member
Oct 27, 2017
583
The state media is playing up the story about the Global Times reporter. It was a set up and they fell for it. Global Times is state sponsored trash, but you don't tie people to a cart over a fucking tshirt.
This was definitely a well planned set-up. Seemed to easy and the way he acted so unprofessionally as a so-called 'journalist'. But there was no reason for the protesters to get all heated up and attack him. Hell do we even know if those violent protesters are real protesters or just more police/hired thugs to make the protesters look bad?
 

Jie Li

Member
Dec 21, 2018
622
There are young and new hire policemen/triads too you know. All policemen/thugs have to be 30/40 years old now? There have been plenty of photos and videos of this and the police have even admitted to using them. They are young looking. Please go and have a look.


Maybe, but your link shows a guy with mask and hard hat. The other guy with breathing mask only definitely look old.
 

hanshen

Member
Jun 24, 2018
966
Chicago, IL
This was definitely a well planned set-up. Seemed to easy and the way he acted so unprofessionally as a so-called 'journalist'. But there was no reason for the protesters to get all heated up and attack him. Hell do we even know if those violent protesters are real protesters or just more police/hired thugs to make the protesters look bad?
I dunno. The internet tells me that all violent protestors are undercover police/hired thugs. Only peaceful protestors are true protestors.

Seriously though, there's so much false information right now. The state media is peddling the fake news that the protestors are paid by CIA, while the liberal media says that the videos of protestors beating up mainlanders are all done by undercover police.
 

Kaseoki

Member
Oct 27, 2017
583
Maybe, but your link shows a guy with mask and hard hat. The other guy with breathing mask only definitely look old.
Here's one video that clearly shows mid 20s early 30s police officers dressed up as protesters. Plenty of them around. This shows that police have fully infiltrated groups to arrest, and possibly stir up trouble (nothing can be confirmed but nothing is out of possibility considering the tactics of the HK police these days).


And please do your own research before refuting my comments. There are plenty of videos and images floating out there on news sites. Otherwise I will have to accuse you of being a Chinese defence force shill.
 

Resetti

Member
Oct 25, 2017
650
they can protest all they want, do it in a peaceful way and should respect people with different voice.
Now, tell me how you feel about this


You might want to check out this reporter's Facebook too then
https://www.facebook.com/RichScotford5/photos/a.587605188007468/1955710911196882/
 

aznpxdd

Member
Oct 25, 2017
564
If you check out weibo the current trending topics are "shame on HK, we are with the HK police" and "I'm a flag protector". So yeah.
 

Mezentine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,469
Frankly if a handful of protesters get violent, I don't actually care that much. Get back to me when there's actual mass violence, right now what I'm seeing is dwarfed by the violence I've seen from the police and the implicit violence from the arrests they've made
 

Kaseoki

Member
Oct 27, 2017
583
Frankly if a handful of protesters get violent, I don't actually care that much. Get back to me when there's actual mass violence, right now what I'm seeing is dwarfed by the violence I've seen from the police and the implicit violence from the arrests they've made
Exactly. Don't forget this is mass civil disobedience with no central organiser. Inevitably there will be a few bad apples amongst all the peaceful protesters. Compare this to the police who are run top-down and supposedly the best and most 'professional' police force in the world. And yet we see the complete opposite with all the police brutality happening and reported by the press.

If you check out weibo the current trending topics are "shame on HK, we are with the HK police" and "I'm a flag protector". So yeah.
Nothing has changed here. Mainland Chinese have always supported the extradition bill and Beijing control over Hong Kong. Now they are presented with proof and hardening their beliefs. Both sides are driven to the extreme and Carrie Lam (and most possibly the Beijing authorities who are ordering her not to withdraw the bill) are to blame for this mess.
 

arbok26

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,479
The Chinese government will never give in. Not when they are dealing with Taiwan, Tibet and contested territory everywhere around them.

Hong Kongers know that the Chinese government won't give in, and its going to escalate, because they've waited 20 years and nothing has changed, and you could say China has imposed their will on Hong Kong in that time.

Hong Kong are escalating the situation to get the attention of the international media, and we are now seeing extensive coverage of it in the news.

While this looks bad, China don't really care, they'll do whatever they need to. No amount of condemnation is too great for China.

I'm guessing one of two things will happen - the Hong Kongers who can will leave and migrate to other countries like Canada or Australia, and I've heard they're also interested in Malaysia. Or this is going to escalate, and the Hong Kongers will burn it to the ground, if they can't have it China won't either.
 

Resetti

Member
Oct 25, 2017
650
If you check out weibo the current trending topics are "shame on HK, we are with the HK police" and "I'm a flag protector". So yeah.
The CCP's trying to tie all the protest to 'PRO-HK Independence' and 'terrorism' so yesterday's news definitely helps playing up that bit.
It is really sad that there is no way to tell the other side of story in Chinese media.
 

aznpxdd

Member
Oct 25, 2017
564
What's changed was that majority of mainlanders were keeping quiet about the protests only sharing with close friends/groups fearing a crackdown of spreading info. Now its all out in the open, 99% of the stuff on WeChat today is Anti-HK while it was very quiet the past few months.
 

Chikor

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,379
Frankly if a handful of protesters get violent, I don't actually care that much. Get back to me when there's actual mass violence, right now what I'm seeing is dwarfed by the violence I've seen from the police and the implicit violence from the arrests they've made
That's where I generally stand. The point of such demonstrations is to create disruption, and there's a fine art of just how far you can go with those things, and while historically there are few places in the world more versed in that than HK (and I swear I don't mean it as a back-handed compliment) over a long enough period of time, you will have people who will either be provoked to go over the line or just stumble and will.
And like, from a historical perspective, this incident is nothing, no one got killed, no one got prematurely hurt, it's bad PR, and you probably want to avoid that, but to say that any such incident disqualify the movement is to deny pretty much any sort of direct action.

This is also why I think this false flag theory is not a hill worth dying on, like, I obviously have no idea, but I don't really think it matters and you set yourself up poorly if it's proven that it was just a few people who got carried away.
 

arbok26

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,479
they can protest all they want, do it in a peaceful way and should respect people with different voice.
Now, tell me how you feel about this


Like I was saying - China will never give in, and the pro democracy group have given them their time's worth, 3 months since the extradition bill was announced, 20 years if you want to take it all the way back to the handover. They're trying to escalate it to get international media's attention, but China don't really care what other countries think, so imo its probably going to get worse before it gets better. (or everyone just leaves Hong Kong).
 

SushiReese

Member
Oct 30, 2017
194
According to the Lihkg, all violent protesters are just paid triads and policemen. All police are Commie Dog and deserved to be outed and harass the family’s members. When they caught one mainland person, the users basically celebrated they caught a “ghost”/“spy”.
For other may not know. lihkg is the main forum used to organize the protests. It has highly-functional propaganda groups(they even called themselves”文宣组”)to produce massive unverified “news” to post on all other social media like reddit to sparkle more outrage and “inspire” more people to join. It basically the major platform for protesters to gather the information and organize the protest.
Then you have high-upproved post like this:
Which basically celebrates the unverified news of police members getting beaten in protest and burned by Molotov, and missing of police family member.
“Source” from Lihkg propaganda groups are far from verified facts and informal news. Stop spreading the misinformation from Lihkg propaganda groups.
https://lihkg.com/thread/1469656/page/1 (“how do we spin the news of beating mainland reporter?”)
 

hanshen

Member
Jun 24, 2018
966
Chicago, IL
Exactly. Don't forget this is mass civil disobedience with no central organiser. Inevitably there will be a few bad apples amongst all the peaceful protesters. Compare this to the police who are run top-down and supposedly the best and most 'professional' police force in the world. And yet we see the complete opposite with all the police brutality happening and reported by the press.



Nothing has changed here. Mainland Chinese have always supported the extradition bill and Beijing control over Hong Kong. Now they are presented with proof and hardening their beliefs. Both sides are driven to the extreme and Carrie Lam (and most possibly the Beijing authorities who are ordering her not to withdraw the bill) are to blame for this mess.
There are a lot of pro-democracy mainlanders that are now shaken by the videos of undercover cops attacking mainland travelers who are trying to get through the airport. It's not a good look.
 

SushiReese

Member
Oct 30, 2017
194
Yes.
Though I guess it depends on your definition of "win", it already achieved quite a bit.
If the goal of protest is to abolish and retract the extradition law, the protesters already achieved that goal. Beijing and Carrie Lam will not bother to pass the bill again in this government term. If they want Beijing to fulfill “5 demands” ,request Lam to resign and hold free elections in HK afterwards, it’s impossible.
 
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Chikor

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,379
If the goal of protest is to abolish and retract the extradition law, the protesters already achieved that goal. Beijing and Carrie Lam will not bother to pass the bill again in this government term. If they want the government to fulfill “5 demands” ,request Lam to resign and hold free elections in HK afterwards, it’s impossible.
I think they can get most of their five demands, I think the only tricky is universal suffrage, which lets get real, the best case scenario is a re-formation of some commission that will promise to look into things, which is not great, but still better than the current stance of "yeah fuck it, let's not bother anymore" that Carrie Lam have.
I think if you get those things it can generally be thought of as a win, especially if you manage to get it without and loss of life, which I think is still very much possible.
It can still go wrong, no doubt about it, though I'm not as certain as some people here that this is heading necessarily toward the PLA mowing down protesters in Central, and it's certainly not going to be the last round either way.

p.s.
I keep reading different things about whether or not having Carrie Lam removed from office is also "officially" a demand there, but in any case, while I personally would love to see her gone, I kinda doubt this will happen.
 

hanshen

Member
Jun 24, 2018
966
Chicago, IL
If the goal of protest is to abolish and retract the extradition law, the protesters already achieved that goal. Beijing and Carrie Lam will not bother to pass the bill again in this government term. If they want Beijing to fulfill “5 demands” ,request Lam to resign and hold free elections in HK afterwards, it’s impossible.
Yeah. They are not gonna bother with the demands. I can see Lam and CCP hold off for another three weeks to see if the protest dies down as the summer break ends. I don't see why China would make a move before that.
 

Kaseoki

Member
Oct 27, 2017
583
If the goal of protest is to abolish and retract the extradition law, the protesters already achieved that goal. Beijing and Carrie Lam will not bother to pass the bill again in this government term. If they want Beijing to fulfill “5 demands” ,request Lam to resign and hold free elections in HK afterwards, it’s impossible.
Not achieved yet. She only used the word "dead" and not withdraw. And surprise surprise it is still on the list of bills to be debated in the Legislative Council. There is no promise that she won't quietly pass this as soon as things die down again.

 

Chikor

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,379
Not achieved yet. She only used the word "dead" and not withdraw. And surprise surprise it is still on the list of bills to be debated in the Legislative Council. There is no promise that she won't quietly pass this as soon as things die down again.

I think without these protests (and lets not forget, a whole lot of legislative maneuvering by the pro-democracy camp in the legislative council) the extradition bill would have been the law of the land by now.
So while this win might not be irreversible, I think at least for now, it's still a win.

And that's the thing, I can't see how you can really make that win irreversible, the pro-Beijing camp still have a majority in the legislature, if they really wanted they can always just pass the bill again. The hope is that those protests scare them enough from trying that again, and I think there are signs that they have. But either way, I don't think withdrawing the bill would make me trust them any less or more.
 

SushiReese

Member
Oct 30, 2017
194
Not achieved yet. She only used the word "dead" and not withdraw. And surprise surprise it is still on the list of bills to be debated in the Legislative Council. There is no promise that she won't quietly pass this as soon as things die down again.
Another screenshot created from lihkg propaganda groups. It's basically the old index published before the protest movement started (look in the date"July 31")
Occupying movement basically paralyzed Legislative Council and shut down the whole facility, I could not foresee the Legislative Council would be even operational again in this whole year.

I think they can get most of their five demands, I think the only tricky is universal suffrage, which lets get real, the best case scenario is a re-formation of some commission that will promise to look into things, which is not great, but still better than the current stance of "yeah fuck it, let's not bother anymore" that Carrie Lam have.
I don't think SAR government would even concede to any of the five demands listed from protesters except for the first one, it would basically commit a political sucide and resulted losing support force and complete legitimacy of governance.
" If it’s a commission for truth and reconciliation, then that could have wide public support. But so far, the opposition has shown no interest in reconciliation, only criminalizing and punishing the police for maintaining laws and orders."
 
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Kolbe1894

Member
Oct 25, 2017
796
Here is the video clip (left side is the live steam to look at, right steams are Wan Chai ) of the incident that a female protester got shot blind outside of Tsim Sha Tsui police station
At the start of the video, the situation was relatively calm, no police in sign.
Around 44s, reporters start to rush towards the police station, where a female protester found injured in her face/eye and is getting medical attention, there are billboards between the police station & the injured protester.
No police in sight nor any gun shot heard
There were lot of reporters around and not a single one of them has video / photo shows there was police nearby when the protester get injured


]

We later got photo flooding around shows a bean bag round stuck in a goggle



The female protester has been sent to Queen Elizabeth Hospital.
Up to this point, there is still no any confirmed report on what was the cause of the injury.
Some says it may be missfire from slingshot by the protesters, some says it may be bean bag around by police.
Police spokesman says there are unsure what was the cause at the moment and urge the victim to file a case for investigate

PS: the ambulance there was mean to be for the police who got attacked by gasoline bomb, his leg feet received secondary degree burn and right feet received first degree burn
Are you saying she able to put the bag in split second?