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Vash

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,799
A Dutch News site posted a short interview with Horizon Forbidden West's director Mathijs De Jonge.

In it he mentioned the amount of different nationalities currently working at Guerrilla Games, the choice to create to Aloy as a counter to the male-driven and gritty and gray Killzone series, and the studio opting not to go for crunch.

After the many stories about studios basically abusing their workers by forcing crunch in the last couple of years, I figured a much needed positive message would be good.

I'll link to the Dutch site here, so people can use a translator for the rest of the short interview, but I will also post the DeepL translation of the most important part.

Mathijs De Jonge: "That happens very little with us. We are very aware of the disadvantages of crunching, so we take that into account a lot in our planning. To give an example, at Christmas we said that there would be no work and that everyone could just have a two-week vacation. The company was closed, you couldn't even go there to work."

"Some people like to keep working, they don't necessarily want Christmas vacations. That's allowed, we're not going to stop that. But from the company's point of view, we send a very strong message."

"Forbidden West might have come out at the end of last year, but then we might have had to work overtime. People also need to be able to relax and take vacations, for example to be with family and friends. That also played into the decision to only release the game now."
 

Gavalanche

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 21, 2021
17,480
Good! giving everyone a break before launching seems like a good job idea anyhow in general.
 

criteriondog

I like the chili style
Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,143
That's relieving to hear. What I've played so far is amazing. Excited to play more today.
 

APOEERA

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,065
I hope the game sells well enough that other publishers see this and this is the way going forward for all published games. Wishful thinking I know.
 

PinkSpider

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,924
Not particularly a game I'm interested in due to the genre (Might try the original on a discount on PC). But you can tell when people don't rush, are willing to push games back the result is often a way better product and clearly based on review scores and videos in this case and others it's worth it. A good product and good business model kinda keeps people coming back, those 2 week sales and bad PR and bad image for companies doing the opposite are short term wins, long term losses.
 

NewDust

Visited by Knack
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,596
Also immediately moved to WFH as soon as the first local covid case was reported (end Feb 2020), weeks before governmenmal WFH orders were announced . Used over 1km of bubble wrap to ship everyone their equipment.
 

Kemono

▲ Legend ▲
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,669
That's how it should be.

I would be very happy to read something similar about sonys american studios. It's one thing to do something like this in europe (with its tighter labor laws) but way to many in the us have it so much worse.
 

Rick44-4

Member
Oct 8, 2020
1,319
Also immediately moved to WFH as soon as the first local covid case was reported (end Feb 2020), weeks before governmenmal WFH orders were announced . Used over 1km of bubble wrap to ship everyone their equipment.
Sony have handled the pandemic very well, they were quick to respond.
 

Wrexis

Member
Nov 4, 2017
21,247
"Some people like to keep working, they don't necessarily want Christmas vacations. That's allowed, we're not going to stop that. But from the company's point of view, we send a very strong message."

I mean some people are obviously not Christian/Catholic so that makes sense. I worked a Muslim dude who worked the entire Christmas shift so he could take holidays off in other times of the year. Still the gaming industry being what it is, I can't help but think some people still had issues there and had to be told to go home.
 

RowdyReverb

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,934
Austin, TX
Commendable. And the step they took is so, so important. You have to shut it down completely for everyone so that nobody looks lazy or less motivated compared to their peers. No "optional overtime", no "voluntary vacation shifts".
Some people like to keep working, they don't necessarily want Christmas vacations. That's allowed, we're not going to stop that.
This is always the challenging part. There are some people out there who just can't stop, but you have to level the playing field so that the rest of the staff can take time off without losing face
 

Deleted member 14089

Oct 27, 2017
6,264
Translating some parts, although some things I interpreted on my own as direct translations wouldn't match so take it with a grain of salt :p.

You're a game director, what does that role prescribe?

"The easiest comparison are movie directors. Someone who often works with writers, a story or an idea with the goal to bring the whole movie together such that something awesome can be creating. That's my role, but just for a videogame"

Does it feel like Forbidden west is your game?

"I did the initial presentation of the game to provide a general direction of the game. The team then went off to bring back new ideas and from that, we could create the coolest things"

"In the end you do it together, so it's not like I walk around with a whip and say: This is how you need to do it. That's not how we function"

Is there a message behind Forbidden west

"There are quite a few subliminal messages and themes in the game. For example, about the 'stupidity of mankind' whereby we always find a way to mess things up. Also, about to uprising of robots and the power of millionaires. "

"Although, it's not our goal to make a statement with the game, in the end, its still an entertainment product and we want for people to have fun"

It's noticeable that Playstation-games do have more 'mature'/'adult' themes

"I think it always has been this way, but stories can now be visualized and presented better. Therefore the stories reach the player better and it also appeals to them more"

"Our team also is growing older (agewise): Some of us may now have kids and that becomes a more relevant topic amongst each other. Or the experience of the lockdown and you write stories about the isolating feeling that comes with that. You're tapping a bit into your personal life and what follows from those experiences.


When Horizon Zero Dawn was released, there weren't many female (gaming)heroes. Has that changed in the meantime?

"When we worked on Killzone, we were frustrated that there was no image of our protagonist on the box arts of our games. Instead of that, we had an image of a villain, a scary Helghast-soldier. Moreover, the world of Killzone was very gritty"

"The concept for Horizon was to present a counterreaction of that, which stood perpendicular on the idea of Killzone. Instead of a tough soldier, we wanted a female character in a colourful world. At the same time, we also noticed that there weren't many strong, female characters, but that was actually a secondary (priority).

Many women in gaming are sexualised, but with Aloy that doesn't seem the case.

"We wanted Aloy to be a young robot hunter that is cool to play with and looks casual, without going into a sexualised direction. We didn't have the idea that it was needed. If you can present a good, cool character, then you're already there"

We are talking Dutch, but your team is quite international

"We have more than thirty nationalities in our team, so the common language is English. Our team does have quite a few Dutch members, so we have to watch ourselves so that we don't accidentally speak Dutch"

"The people who write the story of Horizon are Americans, but they're led by those who are Dutch. It does feel very dutch in here also if you look at how processes go and how we discuss amongst each other. " (I guess he just wants to say that the company culture is just very Dutch, which is often nonchalant and quite informal).

It's a common topic in the gaming industry that there's is a systematic crunch (culture)

"That doesn't happen at our studio often. We're very aware of the disadvantages of crunching, so we take that into account of our planning. Just to provide an example: during Christmas, we told ourselves that we wouldn't work and that we could celebrate a two-week vacation. The company was closed and you couldn't even go there to work."

"Some people like to continue working and don't necessarily want a Christmas break. That's of course possible, we're not going to stop that, but we do send a strong signal from the company (not to). "

"Forbidden west could've been released last year, but in turn, there was some possible crunch needed to achieve that. People have to relax and take a vacation to, for example, be with their family and friends. That played a role with the decision to bring the game out now"
 
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behOemoth

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,624
"Some people like to keep working, they don't necessarily want Christmas vacations. That's allowed, we're not going to stop that. But from the company's point of view, we send a very strong message."

In my experience that's the problem working in these highly regarded premium companies. You get paid and stuff and no one is really forcing you to overwork, but the ambition and peer pressure is causing these environments and this needs to end.
 

score01

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,701
Hopefully this is a sign of things to come for future studios/releases too. Well done GG.
 

Helix

Mayor of Clown Town
Member
Jun 8, 2019
23,793
"That happens very little with us. We are very aware of the disadvantages of crunching, so we take that into account a lot in our planning. To give an example, at Christmas we said that there would be no work and that everyone could just have a two-week vacation. The company was closed, you couldn't even go there to work."

a beautiful statement to read.

these days I couldn't care about games being delayed. games being delayed are bummer, sure but if it means devs can have more time with their families then that's all that fucking matters.
 

Deleted member 14089

Oct 27, 2017
6,264
Cool gesture to just close the studio off for two weeks and just say; "Take a break".
 

Yuntu

Prophet of Regret
Member
Nov 7, 2019
10,691
Germany
This and 4 day weeks would be optimal for creatives I feel like. You need to be rested to put out a great product. Good to hear some studios know that.
 

Temascos

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,521
Good on them for working to avoid crunch! It leads to your employees being in better health and happiness, and in turn it leads to be a better game whenever it comes out. In turn, it leads to more success!
 

Thera

Banned
Feb 28, 2019
12,876
France
That's active measure against crunch.
Putting people in vacation 2 months before launch is something.

Time for Naughty Dog now
 

Rogote

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,606
That's active measure against crunch.
Putting people in vacation 2 months before launch is something.

Time for Naughty Dog now
I think it also helps GG is not in america. Some stuff is not up to the discretion or benevolence of workplace but just simple workplace laws you abide by. Seems ther laws to protect workers ain't a big thing in america in comparison.
 

thepenguin55

Member
Oct 28, 2017
11,815
You would hope this would be the case. It's not like a company as big as Sony doesn't have the money to do this. Still, nice to see it actually happen as it's not hard to imagine a scenario where this game was finished via crazy crunch.
 

ovbm

Member
Nov 9, 2017
53
It's as if labor laws actually improved conditions for labor! mindblown.gif

Can't wait to play horizon :D
 
OP
OP
Vash

Vash

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,799
I think it also helps GG is not in america. Some stuff is not up to the discretion or benevolence of workplace but just simple workplace laws you abide by. Seems ther laws to protect workers ain't a big thing in america in comparison.

This is very much true. The Netherlands has fought hard for their rights for protections in work, but also in traffic. That's an entire different story, but there are good reasons my country is considered to be one of the safest and happiest. Also why we hardly use helmets when on our bicycles.

There have been attempts by our current right wing government to take some protections away, but even compared to a country like the US, we are pretty left still. Not as progressive as I'd like to see it, but there are small steps being taken over time.

I also think the attitude of the Dutch helps with Guerrilla's decisions. We take our (paid, mind you) vacation time very seriously. :P