And the worst part is what Omar said is nowhere near as bad as those posters which are explicit and intentional. Attempting to make a false equivalency between the two is disingenuous.
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House Dems will vote on a resolution in response to Ilhan Omar’s Israel comments
- Thread starter D.Dragoon
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And the worst part is what Omar said is nowhere near as bad as those posters which are explicit and intentional. Attempting to make a false equivalency between the two is disingenuous.
You are acting like communicating effectively is a game with rules... How are you supposed to effectively "stand on the side of justice" when you are distracting everybody from your message with nonsense like "It's all about the Benjamins"? or do you consider that comment a righteous standing up for justice? It was a comment she threw out there carelessly, not a hill to die on.
Yeah, but what she said was fine and the backlash was either bad-faith or dumb, period.
Suppression of any speech critical of the Israeli government is the point. Period. AIPAC is lobbying legislators to pass bills that rob you and I (if you're American) of our First Amendment right to protest by outlawing boycotts of goods and services from Israel. There was even a earlier draft of a senate bill that added a steep fine and jail time. 26 states have passed bills to deny giving out contracts to businesses/non-profits that are pro-BDS.
All the states (with links to individual bills) that have passed anti-BDS laws: https://palestinelegal.org/news/2016/6/3/what-to-know-about-anti-bds-legislation
At a certain point, there exists a responsibility on the American people to become more educated on Israel. It shouldn't just be up to politicians to hold countries or regimes accountable for their actions. Most politicians are not going to go forward without information or polls that show a proposed policy has widespread support. And frankly, there is widespread support for Israel in the USA, no matter what they do.
Could Congresswoman Omar have phrased her criticism more delicately? Sure. But in reality, I fear even if she had done it in ways pointed out in this thread, most of the reaction would be the same. It comes down to the fact that the US and its citizens do not care about the people of Palestine or the non-Jews in Israel.
Geraldo isn't a congressperson.
Could Congresswoman Omar have phrased her criticism more delicately? Sure. But in reality, I fear even if she had done it in ways pointed out in this thread, most of the reaction would be the same. It comes down to the fact that the US and its citizens do not care about the people of Palestine or the non-Jews in Israel.
Geraldo isn't a congressperson.
Fucking you don't have to be offended but don't be surprised or skeptical when people actually are offended or off-put. I have no reason to believe she's anti-semitic, which is why I'm not buying into this vapid resolution... and yes, the game is fucked because the rules were set up centuries ago and change is slow as molasses in December but we need people like Omar to be effective in their messaging and to not get bogged down by made-up controversies.
If you keep wanting our representatives to go into the temple and upset the money-changers table than don't be fucking surprised when they get crucified. (to use a possibly offensive analogy)
Yes, I'm happy that AOC retracted her public support of Palestine to get elected, because that means AOC is now in congress making shit happen instead of on the sidelines.
Change IS happening, the rules are being rewritten, the money-changers are getting kicked out of the temple, but it's going to take more time and until then you have to message in a way that's going to be effective, rather than a way that's going to be controversial.
clearly, the morally right and intersectional thing to do is to side with powerful white people against a black Muslim woman and say that she brought it on herself by not being more careful with her words
There is a wire-crossing here where the good faith liberals desire to extend to accusations of offense by marginalized groups is being exploited for what are very obviously innocuous and true things Omar has said. Like, have we gotten to the point where we cannot just discern when something is bullshit, where everything has to be a big dialogue where people snap at points they agree with for whatever absurd reason?
Now was that very obvious dig at me called for? I'd say no, because I've only been respectful to you.
I just don't think you want to engage with how the speech in question is specifically being communicated.
she totally does, aipac directly accused her of supporting anti-israeli terrorism
it doesn't blow up like this because she's a white christian and her criticisms are even milder than omar's
It is. No Jew that isn't clouded by loyalty or bought by Israel, no Jew that sees the truth and can separate the vile acts of greedy individuals from their own religion, is concerned about these words. We don't evaluate meaning in a context-free world. Who is Ilhan Omar? What motivates her? These things inform the meaning of her words. It is only those people with something to lose if the truth is exposed that seek to rip these words from the woman who wrote them and create their own, discrediting narrative. To me it is incredibly sad and entirely exhausting that we all apparently must come here and pretend we don't understand this when we talk about this subject.
That's not on the American people as a whole; it's just the inevitable result of a world where the discourse is overwhelmingly biased towards Israel. Most of the electorate doesn't feel that strongly about Israel one way or another, and support is already declining among younger Jews and Democrats as activism and Bibi make people more aware of the reality of what Israel has become.
Idk a quick google search of Betty makes it seem like her criticism is far more severe than the specific language Omar is being criticized for, such as "It's all about the Benjamins".
Better to be an unprincipled congresswoman than a principled activist. I.e. Anything must be done to obtain power even if that requires hypocrisy.
In other words change is fine as long as its at a pace and in a form that I, as the self appointed gatekeeper, am completely comfortable with.
Guess what, positive change is coming and it doesn't care how uncomfortable it makes you. Better get used to it.
she still says that israel is an important ally blah blah blah
to me a hard critique of israel would be saying that they're no longer an ally and we should be sanctioning them for their crimes against palestine. say that and see how bad the blowback gets.
You don't change the acceptable boundaries of tone without pushing back against bullshit.
I want more people in power to talk about these issues in the way Omar is doing so, so of course I'm going to shame people "calling her out" for nonsense reasons (and the reasons have been purely nonsense from the start).
Ya, cause a principled activist is a nobody posting on ResetERA while an unprincipled congresswoman is out there making things happen.
Who the fuck said I'm the gatekeeper? Who the fuck said anything about what I'm comfortable with?
I'm just the adult telling you how the world works.
Guess what, positive change is coming at an expected pace, better buckle up because it's going to be a slow and steady climb to the top of the mountain and I wouldn't want you to try and get out.
Whatever it takes to feel okay about all the shitty right-wing op-eds you approve of, Bari...
Oh, and the final sentence in that clips says it all. "The problem is that she still has the spot on the foreign affairs committee"
That's what it's always been about. They want her off that committee by any means necessary, and the "liberals" are more than happy to do their bidding.
Can one not condemn Israel for its horrible human rights violations, but also not support Palestine either? Supporting Palestine would be very hard for me based on their own human rights violations and history of treatment towards women and LGBT.
I mean, I think the only moral position you can take is a solution which includes a strong Israeli and Palestinian state. You can criticize the actions of both states all day.
not exactly sure what your point is here. we have a ton of unprincipled politicians "out there making things happen". it doesn't mean anything to me if their positions are harmful.
the thing is none of our representatives are even condemning Israel here. like we're not even getting that right.
Supporting that Palestinian citizens don't get lied to and killed on a constant basis and have their own stable state doesn't mean you have to support everything Palestine has ever done.
I'm saying that AOC is better for the country as a congresswoman rather than an activist.
Well yeah, that is kind of the whole point of this thread. People need to have the ability to separate criticism of governmental policies and actions instead of criticizing people for simply being from a race/religion associated with those governments.
User Banned (3 days): Persistent hostility, antagonizing other members over a series of posts.
And who in this entire thread has criticised anyone "for simply being from a race/religion". Constant poorly masked red hearings by apartheid state supporters only serves to expose themselves
Being a black female muslim means she's literally on her own. Shit sucks, and the fact government officials basically swear fealty to Israel and everyone thinks that's fine is just wild to me.
Can't wait till that fealty spreads to Saudi Arabia and people are no longer allowed to be critical of them
Can't wait till that fealty spreads to Saudi Arabia and people are no longer allowed to be critical of them
Are we honestly supposed to pretend you wouldn't be (rightfully!) incensed at the same kind of tone policing were it directed by straight white men at BLM or gay rights activists?
Yeah but how many of those writers wear a hijab? That's how you know it's anti-Semitism.
This is a good point. And clearly, a lot of what's being aimed at Omar is bullshit.
Taking on a purely academic view, I just find myself looking at Omar and thinking "...ok, but what are you saying?" I mean, it's clear to me that she's not an anti-Semite, but being honest I really don't know what her slant is outside of being generically anti-Israeli government. And this is usually the point where I'm sent links and clippings of what other people have said, and other critiques of Israel, to which my response is usually "...ok, and why didn't she say this?"
I just don't think that this is a position that Omar commands with any sort of authority. I think she has a lot of learning to do, because a lot of the traps she falls into are easy to avoid, and I think this contributes to the blowback she gets on top of being Black, Muslim and female. I think this is fair to point out, and wonder if the 500th debate of semantics and language could be avoided if...she were more careful with semantics and her language in lieu of saying anything substantive. Is there a good chance that Omar would get this blowback regardless of what she said and how she said it? Of course. We're 6 years into the movement, and still have to explain to people that "Black Lives Matter" doesn't mean "Only Black Lives Matter." Some people will intentionally refuse to get it. Still, I would like Omar to define herself and what she stands for, because her not really doing that has allowed everyone else to do it for her.
uh oh, sounds like anti-semitic speech to me
they don't do that, oh and also our alliance with israel is a fundamental american value and can never be questioned. amen.
LOL, I guess if you support the right for Israel and it's people to exist in the region, that means you are an apartheid state supporter. Don't think I could have been more clear about my condemnation of Israel's current policies. Also it's "red herrings" not "red hearings".
If we're gonna be pedantic language cunts then 'its' doesn't take an apostrophe for the possessive. And yes, if you support Israel you support apartheid. Pretty simple.
Oh wait, supporting the right for an Israeli state to exist is supporting apartheid now?
I feel the same.
I am just feeling relief knowing there is nothing I can do about this and that I am not American to have to vote for such disgraceful pieces of shit. Fuck the democrats.
Supporting the right of an Israeli state to immorally exist is supporting apratheid, yes.
A normal country would exist without killing thousands of innocents just to exist.
Yes? That and supporting the continuation of western colonialism. The entire concept of Israel as an ethnostate is a racist endeavour, allowing Jewish people their own country through the slow and deliberate elimination of the people already living there.
Don't put those hasbarra promoted words in my innocent little mouth. Israel is an ethnostate and any support of it in any way serves, at best, as acquiescence to its actions. In reality any support for israel is support for apartheid. You might not wish to accept to but it's truth. Just like support for south africa during apartheid was support for apartheid - well at least people weren't ethnically cleansed even if they were systematically oppressed.
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If you are saying anyone who supports the right for the Israeli people to exist in the region also supports apartheid, then you are a disgusting individual and I don't need to address you any further. That would be a textbook example of left-wing anti-semitism masked as concern for Palestine.
This is some crazy bullshit here lmao
You telling me you want Israel to stop existing as a state huh? Hmm...
"Yet Omar herself is doing something akin to what her disgusting opponents are doing to her: She has suggested that Americans who support Israel — by implication, Jews — are disloyal to the United States. "
From another brilliant WaPo opinion piece. Obviously when she says americans who support israel she's talking just about JEWS forgetting that a ton of non jewish people support israel and a ton of jewish people hate israel i guess
I don't agree that Israel should cease to exist bc that would cause more problems than it would solve but Israel was started as a western colonialist state and that's like. not debatable. Do you think it just magically formed after WWII?
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