House Dems will vote on a resolution in response to Ilhan Omar’s Israel comments

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Richter1887

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Oct 27, 2017
15,602
This is some crazy bullshit here lmao

You telling me you want Israel to stop existing as a state huh? Hmm...
Yes everyone here asking for Israel to cut the bullshit mean they should cease to exist.

Is that what you want to hear? Everyone here knows that Israel can't cease to exist. The least they can do is cut the bullshit, leave the west bank and let a Palestinian state get recognised. That would solve a huge part of the conflict.
 

marrec

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,775
I don't agree that Israel should cease to exist bc that would cause more problems than it would solve but Israel was started as a western colonialist state and that's like. not debatable. Do you think it just magically formed after WWII?
Ya, a lot of states started as western colonialist states and that's been the source of a lot of trouble in the world rn, however Israel, like many western colonialist states, has become a legitimate state despite it's questionable origins.
 

marrec

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,775
Yes everyone here asking for Israel to cut the bullshit mean they should cease to exist.

Is that what you want to hear? Everyone here knows that Israel can't cease to exist. The least they can do is cut the bullshit, leave the west bank and let a Palestinian state get recognised. That would solve a huge part of the conflict.
I was talking to Git who doesn't seem to believe the Israel has a right to exist.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,323
Brooklyn, NY
Yes everyone here asking for Israel to cut the bullshit mean they should cease to exist.

Is that what you want to hear? Everyone here knows that Israel can't cease to exist. The least they can do is cut the bullshit, leave the west bank and let a Palestinian state get recognised. That would solve a huge part of the conflict.
Or allow full and equal rights to Palestinians in a single state, but for some reason you get accused of calling for a second Holocaust (“the destruction of Israel”) if you dare suggest that
 

Git

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,107
If you are saying anyone who supports the right for the Israeli people to exist in the region also supports apartheid, then you are a disgusting individual and I don't need to address you any further. That would be a textbook example of left-wing anti-semitism masked as concern for Palestine.
Oh fuck off with that bullshit. Supporting the status quo there is supporting apartheid.

This is some crazy bullshit here lmao

You telling me you want Israel to stop existing as a state huh? Hmm...
Hmmmmmm. I would like Israel to not be an ethnostate. I would like Israel to stop expanding illegally into the West Bank and Gaza. I would like equal land rights for Palestinians who have been forced out of their homes. It would be pretty fucking easy to stop apartheid and give Palestinians equal rights. The same rights afforded to Israelis. But apparently suggesting such a thing is what exactly, crazy bullshit? Lol.

I was talking to Git who doesn't seem to believe the Israel has a right to exist.
I don't believe Israel has the right to set up an ethnostate, no. I mean, neither does the UN. They are illegally occupying land.
 

marrec

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,775
Hmmmmmm. I would like Israel to not be an ethnostate. I would like Israel to stop expanding illegally into the West Bank and Gaza. I would like equal land rights for Palestinians who have been forced out of their homes. It would be pretty fucking easy to stop apartheid and give Palestinians equal rights. The same rights afforded to Israelis. But apparently suggesting such a thing is what exactly, crazy bullshit? Lol.
This is what you said:

Yes? That and supporting the continuation of western colonialism. The entire concept of Israel as an ethnostate is a racist endeavour, allowing Jewish people their own country through the slow and deliberate elimination of the people already living there.
In response to the very IDEA OF AN ISRAELI STATE

Don't try and walk back your bullshit now.

I asked you if supporting an Israeli state is supporting apartheid and you said "yes". That's some bullshit.

You need to separate in your mind an Israeli state from the current Israeli government. Cause otherwise you sound pretty fucking anti-semitic implying that the idea of an Israeli state is inherently entho-centric or inherently prone to apartheid.
 
Nov 9, 2017
1,574
This is some crazy bullshit here lmao

You telling me you want Israel to stop existing as a state huh? Hmm...
Right? Guy is essentially calling for the removal of Israel and Jewish people who live in the region and then wonders why some people might think anti-semitism is rising on the left. Effing LOL. Nice attempt at walking back your crazy statement Git. You have already been quoted for truth though.
 

Crocks

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
963
I haven't been following this latest set of comments very closely, only read the OP. Assuming dual loyalties is a very common anti-semitic trope, but most on the first page of this thread don't seem to be concerned about that. Why is this action by the Democrats an issue?
 

necrosis

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
827
https://twitter.com/Yascha_Mounk/status/1102323381389672448

How is stating that "Jews have been accused of dual loyalty throughout history, which is an anti-Semitic trope" and that Omar should "engage in further dialogue with the Jewish community on why these comments are so hurtful" the same as being "expected to have allegiance/pledge support to a foreign country in order to serve my country in Congress"?

Where does Lowey expect Omar to pledge support to a foreign country? Isn't she firmly on the "don't accuse any group of pledging their support to a foreign country" side in her comments?

And then isn't Omar, by saying that she's being expected to pledge allegiance to a foreign country, in response to Lowey when Lowey did not say that to her, engaging in the same dual loyalty trope that Lowey just mentioned?


https://twitter.com/NitaLowey/status/1101903315670106112

https://twitter.com/IlhanMN/status/1102296763292139520

https://twitter.com/NitaLowey/status/1102328456820477952
failing to address israeli war crimes and its reprehensible treatment of palestinians is, in a sense, supporting them. omar doesn't need to do so, and her peers shouldn't be attempting to bully her into it

these are just more crocodile tears
 
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Richter1887

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,602
Right? Guy is essentially calling for the removal of Israel and Jewish people who live in the region and then wonders why some people might think anti-semitism is rising on the left. Effing LOL. Nice attempt at walking back your crazy statement Git. You have already been quoted for truth though.
Israel got created on a land which they got by killing people and stealing their land.

People not supporting Israel today do not mean remove Israel and the people who live in it because that is not possible no matter how you try.

The least people can do is not support Israel to let them know they are not okay. People saying otherwise is supporting genocide wether they know it or not.
 

Psychoward

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Nov 7, 2017
17,097
We know that the current Israeli government wouldn't, are you implying that there's something inherent to Israel that makes you think they would NEVER agree to it?
the current israeli government and any israeli govt dating back since the initial founding with the first PM lol

like I get this is supposed to be a gotcha statement but if it doesn't look feasible at all might as well go for the one that could possibly work i.e. 2 state
 

Sami

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,447
Even if that were true, your comparison was absolutely ridiculous.

But as has been mentioned numerous times, most recently by xbhaskarx on this very page, there clearly is an issue.

Lowey never talked about any pledge, thus by Omar bringing that up in response, she did use that common trope. And that is what the whole problem is about.

I wish people would stop automatically going criticism of Israel -> she shouldn't possibly have said anything wrong. Why is it so difficult to listen to minorities (from what's supposed to be your own side, not gop concern trolls) when they point out an issue they have? Why dismiss it out of hand?
Because Palestinians are dying every fucking day and there are more important things to worry about than ~The Tropes~ that suddenly everyone is an expert on. It is clear what she meant. As long as Palestinian blood is being shed and the land is being ethnically cleansed, motions like this resolution should be seen as nothing more than the absolute farce they are. Ilhan Omar is right to speak critically of monied interests in Washington directly benefiting a foreign apartheid ethno-state and I think it's very telling that every time this debate enters the mainstream American discourse, the focus is shifted entirely away from Palestinians and their plight.
 

Richter1887

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Oct 27, 2017
15,602
We know that the current Israeli government wouldn't, are you implying that there's something inherent to Israel that makes you think they would NEVER agree to it?
The current government has tons of supporters and if you think for one second Likud is the reason for all of this then you are naive.
 

Git

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,107
This is what you said:



In response to the very IDEA OF AN ISRAELI STATE

Don't try and walk back your bullshit now.

I asked you if supporting an Israeli state is supporting apartheid and you said "yes". That's some bullshit.

You need to separate in your mind an Israeli state from the current Israeli government. Cause otherwise you sound pretty fucking anti-semitic implying that the idea of an Israeli state is inherently entho-centric or inherently prone to apartheid.
I know what I said, it was about five fucking minutes ago. The current government? Lol. Do some reading Marrec. This shit's been going on for over half a century. Yes supporting an Israeli state is supporting apartheid - because that is what it is. "prone to apartheid?" Christ.
 

JakeNoseIt

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,230
American Jew here. Not trying to speak for everyone, but here are my bullet points:

- Conflating the Jewish people and the nation of Israel is bad and also p anti-Semitic.
- The people Ilhan Omar was talking about, the ones who pledged allegiance to a foreign nation are, by and large, not Jewish! She was mostly talking about Republicans and mainstream Dems.
- It is incredibly draining to see your faith and culture being weaponized against Black people and Muslims.
- Legit don't understand why younger Dems are falling for this. Can't even pinpoint what they have to gain.

Edit: Oh, also

Criticizing Israel because you hate Jews is anti-Semitic, but criticizing Israel because of its shitty policies is definitely not.
 

EightBitNate

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
1,644
American Jew here. Not trying to speak for everyone, but here are my bullet points:

- Conflating the Jewish people and the nation of Israel is bad and also p anti-semitic.
- The people Ilhan Omar was talking about, the ones who pledged allegiance to a foreign nation are, by and large, not Jewish! She was mostly talking about Republicans and mainstream Dems.
- It is incredibly draining to see your faith and culture being weaponized against Black people and Muslims.
- Legit don't understand why younger Dems are falling for this. Can't even pinpoint what they have to gain.
Are there really younger democrats who don’t side with Omar? Feel like if we took a poll across college campuses, a majority would support her.
 

thebishop

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Nov 10, 2017
1,561
We're never going to make progressive progress via the Democratic party. Any leftist who has electoral success as a Democrat will be smeared by the party until they bend to the neoliberal consensus of the party's major donors. Already we've had several examples of AOC being forced to mediate between the party and her activist base. That conflict is untenable, eventually she will have to choose a side.

We need our own institutions, media outlets, unions, and most importantly a PARTY to speak in our own voice without being kneecapped by our alleged allies.

If it's not clear by now, it'll be on full display when the presidential primary gets rolling.
 

marrec

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Oct 26, 2017
6,775
User Banned (1 Week): Repeated hostility and inflammatory accusations against other members
So... I guess there really is a problem with anti-semitism on the left damn

I'm all for criticizing the current Israeli government, but this idea that Israel is inherently apartheid is purely anti-semitic.
 

Nairume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,245
- Legit don't understand why younger Dems are falling for this. Can't even pinpoint what they have to gain.
I imagine part of it is an obsession with pragmatism and civility that makes them think that they have to go along with things like this because they are more worried about the consequences than the problems themselves that cause consequences.
 

Sami

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,447
We know that the current Israeli government wouldn't, are you implying that there's something inherent to Israel that makes you think they would NEVER agree to it?
Crazy idea maybe we could open the floor to the Palestinians to actually have a say on what happens with their home.
 

Git

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,107
Right? Guy is essentially calling for the removal of Israel and Jewish people who live in the region and then wonders why some people might think anti-semitism is rising on the left. Effing LOL. Nice attempt at walking back your crazy statement Git. You have already been quoted for truth though.
Quoted for truth? My fucking sides. I've not called for the removal of Israelis. I've called for equal rights for all people living there. I love how this is always twisted into this crock of shite though. I guess you hate Native Americans too right. And black South Africans? Probably. Israel did when they supported SA apartheid. They learned from the best.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,613
So... I guess there really is a problem with anti-semitism on the left damn

I'm all for criticizing the current Israeli government, but this idea that Israel is inherently apartheid is purely anti-semitic.
You say "Current Israeli government" as if a change of parties would drastically change the treatment of Palestinians. It's been going on for decades, is widely supported by the population, and will continue if no-one takes a stand.
 

Richter1887

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,602
if the question is “what would Israel agree to” then anyone who wants an end to the occupation might as well give up now
I am going to be honest with you. I doubt Israel wants to put an end to it. Remember the prime minister who got closest to a solution, Yitzhak Rabin? He got assassinated. I feel bad for the Israeli people who are against the occupation yet are associated with such awful people.

What I think will happen is that Israel will take over Palestine slowly but surely until there is nothing left. And that includes no rights for any Palestinian.

The people with power who are letting this go on without fighting back are the reason Israel can do it.
 

marrec

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,775
Quoted for truth? My fucking sides. I've not called for the removal of Israelis. I've called for equal rights for all people living there. I love how this is always twisted into this crock of shite though. I guess you hate Native Americans too right. And black South Africans? Probably. Israel did when they supported SA apartheid. They learned from the best.
Riiiiight, you just don't think there's a possibility for Israel to accept a non-apartheid state for.... reasons.
 

Dude Abides

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,847
We know that the current Israeli government wouldn't, are you implying that there's something inherent to Israel that makes you think they would NEVER agree to it?
Do you even understand what Zionism is? Did you first hear of the existence of Israel last week? A single state would not be majority Jewish and would thus violate the fundamental tenet of Zionism. You talk all this shit and don't even understand the basic facts of the situation?
 

JakeNoseIt

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Oct 27, 2017
2,230
Are there really younger democrats who don’t side with Omar? Feel like if we took a poll across college campuses, a majority would support her.
My appearance takes on a lot of Jewish stereotypes, so sometimes I feel more exposed to these conversations than others and I think you'd be surprised how many young liberals are uneducated on this issue. A lot of liberal Jews are passionate defenders of Israel, too. But here, I was actually unclear and referring to young democrats in the House and such. I thought AOC's string of tweets this morning were pretty lukewarm, for example.
 

thebishop

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Nov 10, 2017
1,561
hasn't the current leadership outright stated that they won't
Last summer, Israel passed a "nation-state" law establishing Israel as a Jewish nation with Hebrew as its official language. It also affirms Jewish settlements as a "national value" which the state will "labor to encourage and promote its establishment and development".

So yes, pretty clear on this question.

https://www.vox.com/world/2018/7/31/17623978/israel-jewish-nation-state-law-bill-explained-apartheid-netanyahu-democracy
 

EightBitNate

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
1,644
My appearance takes on a lot of Jewish stereotypes, so sometimes I feel more exposed to these conversations than others and I think you'd be surprised how many young liberals are uneducated on this issue. A lot of liberal Jews are passionate defenders of Israel, too. But here, I was actually unclear and referring to young democrats in the House and such. I thought AOC's string of tweets this morning were pretty lukewarm, for example.
Ah that clears things up. I've never heard someone outright side with Israel in my life (at least in person), but part of it could do with me very clearly looking Palestinian lol.
 

Richter1887

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,602
What makes you think Israeli's are impossible to compromise with Git? Hmm...
I feel you need to step back and go read about the history of this conflict and what Netanyahu beliefs are. This blatant trolling isn't going through people's head, instead people are seeing right through it.

If you are not trolling then take my advice and go educate yourself.
 

Deepwater

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,746
There’s nothing controversial about denying Israel’s “right” (totally skipping over the colonial state history) to exist unless you think...Israel represents the Jews.
 

necrosis

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
827
So... I guess there really is a problem with anti-semitism on the left damn

I'm all for criticizing the current Israeli government, but this idea that Israel is inherently apartheid is purely anti-semitic.
anti-semitism is not defined as critiquing or objecting to the existence of an apartheid state, bud
 

Brock Reiher

Member
Oct 25, 2017
30,472
Yes, fuck the current Israeli government.

Some of y'all in here implying or outright calling for the abolition of Israel tho like ??? y'all wonder why people are jumpy lmao

"There is nothing anti-semitic about the left! Also, abolish the Israeli state!"
Would it make you feel better if people just added "the current admin" in all of their posts?
 

JakeNoseIt

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,230
Ah that clears things up. I've never heard someone outright side with Israel in my life (at least in person), but part of it could do with me very clearly looking Palestinian lol.
Yep, that answers that, haha!

Because of my appearance, I get asked what I think about Israel on the freaking daily. It never stops haha
 

Hierophant

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,518
Sydney
Yes, fuck the current Israeli government.

Some of y'all in here implying or outright calling for the abolition of Israel tho like ??? y'all wonder why people are jumpy lmao

"There is nothing anti-semitic about the left! Also, abolish the Israeli state!"
Israel is an illegitimate white settler colonial state that's currently killing and displacing innocent Palestinians from a region where they have lived for generations, how is it anti semetic to point that out?
 
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