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House Dems will vote on a resolution in response to Ilhan Omar’s Israel comments

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necrosis

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
842
Yes, fuck the current Israeli government.

Some of y'all in here implying or outright calling for the abolition of Israel tho like ??? y'all wonder why people are jumpy lmao

"There is nothing anti-semitic about the left! Also, abolish the Israeli state!"
here again you are regarding the israeli state as though it represents all jewish people

this is not the case
 

thebishop

Member
Nov 10, 2017
1,624
Yes, fuck the current Israeli government.

Some of y'all in here implying or outright calling for the abolition of Israel tho like ??? y'all wonder why people are jumpy lmao

"There is nothing anti-semitic about the left! Also, abolish the Israeli state!"
If there was a revolutionary movement of Palestinians and Israelis organizing in solidarity to abolish the zionist state and establish a secular democracy with equal rights for all* , I have a hard time seeing how any progressive person could justify opposing it.

* I would also suggest the abolition of private property and wage labor...
 

marrec

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,775
Would it make you feel better if people just added "the current admin" in all of their posts?
It would make me feel better if people didn't want to abolish the Israeli state.

-----

This thread is trash I'm out, keep on keeping the anti-semitism of the left alive tho y'all.

If there was a revolutionary movement of Palestinians and Israelis organizing in solidarity to abolish the zionist state and establish a secular democracy with equal rights for all* , I have a hard time seeing how any progressive person could justify opposing it.

* I would also suggest the abolition of private property and wage labor...
I'll respond to this before dipping, cause this is an important distinction. I'm all for creating an actual representative democracy in Israel that doesn't impose apartheid on Palestine. That is VERY DIFFERENT from abolishing the Israeli state however.

Now I'm out.
 

TheTyrant

Member
Nov 27, 2018
950
Don't even engage marrec. He is bad faith trolling trying to tie everything into anti-semitism.
 

Hierophant

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,638
Sydney
It would make me feel better if people didn't want to abolish the Israeli state.

-----

This thread is trash I'm out, keep on keeping the anti-semitism of the left alive tho y'all.
"I can't respond to any of the many valid points people are making so I'm running away and accusing everyone of hating Jews"


Love too rile people up with inflammatory statements and then leave the moment they're questioned
Good discourse thanks,,,
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,074
AIPAC makes open threats at the 3 congresswomen

"Stop accusing us of abusing our power or we will use that power we totally don't have to remove you from Congress" is my favorite take in this entire debate.
I think he's trying to say that Israel can and should still exist if they stopped committing genocide, which is very true.
 

Deepwater

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,867
FWIW, America should be abolished as well, if we’re just axing off imperialist colonial states
 

Dude Abides

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,906
It would make me feel better if people didn't want to abolish the Israeli state.

-----

This thread is trash I'm out, keep on keeping the anti-semitism of the left alive tho y'all.



I'll respond to this before dipping, cause this is an important distinction. I'm all for creating an actual representative democracy in Israel that doesn't impose apartheid on Palestine. That is VERY DIFFERENT from abolishing the Israeli state however.

Now I'm out.
*tucks in shirt, hikes up khakis.* GOOD DAY SIRS!
 

Alavard

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
904
If you keep wanting our representatives to go into the temple and upset the money-changers table than don't be fucking surprised when they get crucified. (to use a possibly offensive analogy)
...

Change IS happening, the rules are being rewritten, the money-changers are getting kicked out of the temple, but it's going to take more time and until then you have to message in a way that's going to be effective, rather than a way that's going to be controversial.
Has a problem with Rep Omar's phrasing 'appearing antisemitic', but uses an admittedly offensive analogy riddled with Jewish stereotypes...
 

JustinP

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,252
The calls to end Israel are either disgusting or are using SEVERELY poor wording. It's too close to the language of extremists that want to remove jews from the region. If that's what you mean, then yeah, you're gross and anti-semitic. If you mean something along the lines of the Israel-Palestine region, as it exists today, would change into something where jews and arabs coexist as equals, use different language.
 

EightBitNate

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
1,644
Yes, fuck the current Israeli government.

Some of y'all in here implying or outright calling for the abolition of Israel tho like ??? y'all wonder why people are jumpy lmao

"There is nothing anti-semitic about the left! Also, abolish the Israeli state!"
You're incorrectly conflating anti-Israel sentiment with anti-Jewish sentiment. Israel could be a majority Christian and most of the criticism would stand.
 
Nov 9, 2017
1,615
Shit has escalated quickly. We went from the discussion of being able to criticize Israel for its actions and not applying it directly to Jewish people who may not even support Israels actions, to now stating that they have no right to exist in the region. One person speculated that the only reason Israel shouldn't be wiped off the map is that it would be logistically difficult to achieve.

So what I am assuming is that Rep. Omar should also declare on twitter that Israel has no right to exist and that anyone who would condemn her statement has simply vowed allegiance to Israel over their own home country. Any controversy over this objectively true statement would be the result of the AIPAC/Pro Israel lobby. /s
 

Idolvo

The Fallen
Jan 25, 2018
4,408
According to the dems this is fine (was sold at the DNC):


According to the republicans this is fine:


But a (black, muslim) woman actually questions about AIPAC buying Congress? HOW DARE SHE!

I hate our world.
 

Deepwater

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,867
Shit has escalated quickly. We went from the discussion of being able to criticize Israel for its actions and not applying it directly to Jewish people who may not even support Israels actions, to now stating that they have no right to exist in the region. One person speculated that the only reason Israel shouldn't be wiped off the map is that it would be logistically difficult to achieve.

So what I am assuming is that Rep. Omar should also declare on twitter that Israel has no right to exist and that anyone who would condemn her statement has simply vowed allegiance to Israel over their own home country. Any controversy over this objectively true statement would be the result of the AIPAC/Pro Israel lobby. /s
Who said Jews should be removed from the region? Quote them.

Dissolution of a state, it’s sovereignty, and it’s borders, is not the same as calling for the removal of Jews from the region.
 

thebishop

Member
Nov 10, 2017
1,624
Shit has escalated quickly. We went from the discussion of being able to criticize Israel for its actions and not applying it directly to Jewish people who may not even support Israels actions, to now stating that they have no right to exist in the region. One person speculated that the only reason Israel shouldn't be wiped off the map is that it would be logistically difficult to achieve.

So what I am assuming is that Rep. Omar should also declare on twitter that Israel has no right to exist and that anyone who would condemn her statement has simply vowed allegiance to Israel over their own home country. Any controversy over this objectively true statement would be the result of the AIPAC/Pro Israel lobby. /s
fwiw, i don't think any state has a "right to exist" as a religious nationalist project, of any religion. And I doubt there are many examples of an officially religious state that isn't built on the oppression and hyper-exploitation of minority groups.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,234
Spain
And yet Israel is the only nation that gets calls for abolishment on this forum.
Maybe because it's a unique combination of ethnonationalistic apartheid through colonial means, which means that the end of the apartheid system fundamentally requires the abolition or severe reworking of the state as it is.
Just like the South African apartheid state was effectively abolished when apartheid ended, and a new state took its place.
 

Dr.Acula

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,268
Yep, that answers that, haha!

Because of my appearance, I get asked what I think about Israel on the freaking daily. It never stops haha
I guess that depends if you identify as Israeli or not, people asking you about Israel if you're third generation American (for example) would be like asking a third generation ethnically Chinese person about the PRC. Most Chinese people I know can't read Mandarin, don't keep in touch with distant family, and have no real understanding or even interest in what's going on in China. Not only that, but they are not expected to defend the PRC, and are not looked at as people who have loyalties to the state.
 

zer0blivion

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,205
Canada
Riiiiight, you just don't think there's a possibility for Israel to accept a non-apartheid state for.... reasons.
Why would anyone possibly think that?

Maybe because they banned discussion of a bill that would define Israel as state for all its citizens (in the form of equal rights for Palestinian citizens of Israel)?
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-knesset-council-bans-bill-to-define-israel-as-state-for-all-citizens-1.6145333
Cached version of the above article.

Or maybe because they passed a basic law that states that "Israel is the historic homeland of the Jewish people and they have an exclusive right to national self-determination in it"?
https://www.resetera.com/threads/bbc-jewish-nation-state-israel-approves-controversial-bill.56378/
https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-middle-east-44881554

Or maybe it's the decades long campaign of genocide and ethnic cleansing of historical Palestine?
 

JustinP

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,252
Maybe because it's a unique combination of ethnonationalistic apartheid through colonial means, which means that the end of the apartheid system fundamentally requires the abolition or severe reworking of the state as it is.
Just like the South African apartheid state was effectively abolished when apartheid ended, and a new state took its place.
No, this is a very weak justification based on revisionist history. The chants were for freedom, ending apartheid, not abolishing South Africa.



 

OtherWorldly

Member
Dec 3, 2018
2,414
Again people in this very thread are interlocking ethnicity and the nation when the criticism is only the policies of the country . No other country seems to get this coddling and egg shells from criticism of its policies

In fact I have to specifically use the word policies when in fact this should be a given because if I don’t I’ll be suspect and asked why did you not use that word to prove my criticism is not bigoted
 

TarNaru33

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,045
Who said Jews should be removed from the region? Quote them.

Dissolution of a state, it’s sovereignty, and it’s borders, is not the same as calling for the removal of Jews from the region.
Kind of is by the nature of what is being called for.

Israel has a right to exist any calls for it to be abolished should be smacked down. Palestinian also deserves their own state and people need to fight for that in U.S or it wont happen.


In the case of this topic, any tone policing of Omar should be rightfully criticized. Stop giving bad faith assholes the time of day by allowing them to skew her original message.
 

Tya

Member
Oct 30, 2017
861
I haven't been following this latest set of comments very closely, only read the OP. Assuming dual loyalties is a very common anti-semitic trope, but most on the first page of this thread don't seem to be concerned about that. Why is this action by the Democrats an issue?
She was clearly talking about her own loyalties and the pressure put on her to support Israel. How that somehow gets transformed into antisemitism is beyond me. She was speaking against this type of insanity.


It also should be pointed out that she is constantly accused of dual loyalties because she is a Muslim.
 

JakeNoseIt

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,302
I guess that depends if you identify as Israeli or not, people asking you about Israel if you're third generation American (for example) would be like asking a third generation ethnically Chinese person about the PRC. Most Chinese people I know can't read Mandarin, don't keep in touch with distant family, and have no real understanding or even interest in what's going on in China. Not only that, but they are not expected to defend the PRC, and are not looked at as people who have loyalties to the state.
Like a lot of American Jews, I'm not even a little Israeli. There really shouldn't be this implication that, because I look Jewish, I must, or even probably, have a connection to Israel *shrugs*
 

aeolist

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,647
Yes, fuck the current Israeli government.

Some of y'all in here implying or outright calling for the abolition of Israel tho like ??? y'all wonder why people are jumpy lmao

"There is nothing anti-semitic about the left! Also, abolish the Israeli state!"
a state that gave full rights to everyone under its control and granted reparations to those palestinians who had been wronged would be a fundamentally different state from israel as it is now constituted

literally no one is calling for jewish genocide, you're only casting your opponents in that light because zionism doesn't win arguments when it comes to reason and morality
 

Chikor

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,739
And yet Israel is the only nation that gets calls for abolishment on this forum.
People mostly only ask for Israel to give equal human rights to all the people under its control regardless of of their race or religion.
Or specially, stop being an apartheid state.

Now obviously, this is something Israel really doesn't want and it's also gonna be the end of zionism (at least as we know it) but you frame it like people are advocating the ethnic cleansing of Jewish people from Israel, which I'm pretty damn sure no one has ever done here (and had they done so, they would have been banned and rightfully so).

So why don't you try and argue with what people actually say instead of shadowboxing unnamed people?
 

Zornack

Member
Oct 29, 2017
733
a state that gave full rights to everyone under its control and granted reparations to those palestinians who had been wronged would be a fundamentally different state from israel as it is now constituted

literally no one is calling for jewish genocide, you're only casting your opponents in that light because zionism doesn't win arguments when it comes to reason and morality
Look at the history of Jewish people in the middle east and tell me everything will be fine for Jews without Israel.
 

Chikor

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,739
She was clearly talking about her own loyalties and the pressure put on her to support Israel. How that somehow gets transformed into antisemitism is beyond me. She was speaking against this type of insanity.
It's not really a mystery, Israel and its supporters believe that BDS = antisemitism, they said so many many times, this is not something that they are trying to hide.

It's just that this position is so blatantly ridiculous that people try to muddy the water so they don't have to try and die on that stupid ass hill.
 
Mod post - stay on topic

B-Dubs

Oh well, what the hell?
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
16,390
Official Staff Communication
This thread is about the House Resolution and public responses by political organizations. Not about the broader Israel/Palestine conflict. Get back on topic.
 

aeolist

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,647
Look at the history of Jewish people in the middle east and tell me everything will be fine for Jews without Israel.
jews would be fine in an israeli/palestinian state with strong legal and constitutional protections for all ethnicities and religions

this is like arguing that the native american genocide was acceptable because the pilgims were persecuted in england
 
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