House Dems will vote on a resolution in response to Ilhan Omar’s Israel comments

[Deleted member 31817]

The issue is the 2 state borders are horrendous. Here's the 1948 partition plan.

Besides the fact that Israel immediately disregarded this and then expanded further 1967, the borders don't work. It's not like Palestinians weren't being displaced before 1948 but this was sorta based on settlement locations. As two seperate states it can't work because it's not even connected.

A current 2 state solution would mean once again palestinians living in their own territory are segmented from their own populace while Palestinians living in illegal land grab zones are now officially 2nd class citizens in a Jewish state.

Make it all one state and put sanctions on the Israeli government until they stop treating their own citizens like shit because they aren't "native****" Israelis.

 

[Richter1887]

Can someone fill me in on this?
I read a few things she said on twitter and nothing was anti-Semitic. From my understanding, she was strictly talking about the Israeli government and the allegiance with the US.

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That is the way she I tended it but the democrats made her out to have said anti Semitic things when she didn't.

 

[i-hate-u]

Can someone fill me in on this?
I read a few things she said on twitter and nothing was anti-Semitic. From my understanding, she was strictly talking about the Israeli government and the allegiance with the US.

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You can't criticize Israel without labeled an anti-Semite. The people that criticize her don't understand that this is not a Jewish problem, this is a white people problem

 

[Deleted member 31817]

Old hometown rep showing his ass




He won comfortably.

 

[Snow Halation]

it doesn't matter

if our aim is to protect marginalized people, we should foremost seek to defend ilhan omar. she is being defamed expressly because she is a racial/ethnic/religious minority

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If you aren't Jewish, you don't get to decide what is or isn't antisemitic. This is something Omar herself acknowledged after the Benjamins thing, yet people keep dragging their foot through the mud saying "I'm not Jewish, but there's no way THAT can be perceived as antisemitic." And of course there are other Jews as well that agree with that sentiment, but we aren't a monolith and it's something we can discuss among ourselves.

And throwing one marginalized group under the bus to appease another spits in the face of the very concept of intersectionality. That doesn't mean there aren't bad faith actors in this whole ordeal because there absolutely are. Omar is being attacked by people that don't give a shit about Jews or their survival because their target is a black Muslim woman. There are also people attacking her because they attack any criticism of Israel. And despite all that, good faith actors remain attacking her because they're uncomfortable with the language she uses in regards to very valid criticism of Israel. A marginalized group's feelings don't need to be invalidated to address a very real problem with a foreign power.

 

[A Syrian Communist]

Can someone fill me in on this?
I read a few things she said on twitter and nothing was anti-Semitic. From my understanding, she was strictly talking about the Israeli government and the allegiance with the US.

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The Zionist lobby in the US is an extremely powerful bipartisan political force and you're not supposed to ask questions about it. She did.

That's the whole story.

 

[Deleted member 15440]

The issue is the 2 state borders are horrendous. Here's the 1948 partition plan.

Besides the fact that Israel immediately disregarded this and then expanded further 1967, the borders don't work. It's not like Palestinians weren't being displaced before 1948 but this was sorta based on settlement locations. As two seperate states it can't work because it's not even connected.

A current 2 state solution would mean once again palestinians living in their own territory are segmented from their own populace while Palestinians living in illegal land grab zones are now officially 2nd class citizens in a Jewish state.

Make it all one state and put sanctions on the Israeli government until they stop treating their own citizens like shit because they aren't "native****" Israelis.

Click to shrink...

and here's a current map of the west bank (not including gaza because as i said previously it will be entirely uninhabitable within a few years and everyone living there now will have to move or die).

so even if you accept that palestinians have to give up on ever returning to their homes in current-day israel and accept a tiny partitioned state for themselves, there's nowhere for it to exist. they are being squeezed to death with more and more of their land being taken every day. there is no contiguous space even just in the west bank for a state, and that's assuming israel would ever allow for the existence of a real palestine that does sovereign things like have a military, control their own borders and trade, etc (which they wouldn't).

 

[Deleted member 31817]

and here's a current map of the west bank (not including gaza because as i said previously it will be entirely uninhabitable within a few years and everyone living there now will have to move or die).

so even if you accept that palestinians have to give up on ever returning to their homes in current-day israel and accept a tiny partitioned state for themselves, there's nowhere for it to exist. they are being squeezed to death with more and more of their land being taken every day. there is no contiguous space even just in the west bank for a state, and that's assuming israel would ever allow for the existence of a real palestine that does sovereign things like have a military, control their own borders and trade, etc (which they wouldn't).

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I know you meant uninhabitable because of military bs but that reminded me that climate change will also affect it.

And Arab states don't even like Palestinians for the most part because A) they wanted the land that israel conquered and B) they blame them for israel's "victories"

 

[Jersey_Tom]

Booker managed to make his statement worse than Gillibrand

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That's because Booker is a political chameleon who bookends his big bursts of righteous rage in committee hearings with going with whatever is "popular" at the time.

In other words, he's a fugazi.

 

[Snow Halation]

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Yeah, she doesn't give a shit. She was right to grill Mallory over the Farrakhan shit and that absolutely exposed her, but she's not much better and only doing it to make the left look bad and divided.

 

[Deleted member 31817]

That's because Booker is a political chameleon who bookends his big bursts of righteous rage in committee hearings with going with whatever is "popular" at the time.

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Yeah I feel bad at myself for actually thinking he turned a new leaf in the runup to his presidential campaign. He can't even do that right.

And then we've got Menendez who is just...actually competent but also corrupt as hell and terrible on Israel.


Imagine being this defensive over an independent report that outlines war crimes.

 

[TarNaru33]

and here's a current map of the west bank (not including gaza because as i said previously it will be entirely uninhabitable within a few years and everyone living there

so even if you accept that palestinians have to give up on ever returning to their homes in current-day israel and accept a tiny partitioned state for themselves, there's nowhere for it to exist. they are being squeezed to death with more and more of their land being taken every day. there is no contiguous space even just in the west bank for a state, and that's assuming israel would ever allow for the existence of a real palestine that does sovereign things like have a military, control their own borders and trade, etc (which they wouldn't).

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I know you meant uninhabitable because of military bs but that reminded me that climate change will also affect it.

And Arab states don't even like Palestinians for the most part because A) they wanted the land that israel conquered and B) they blame them for israel's "victories"

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These are excellent points, however, I fear that no one is looking for a one state solution and I definitely see Israel weathering sanctions before they allow the Palestinians in.

 

[Deleted member 31817]

These are excellent points, however, I fear that no one is looking for a one state solution and I definitely see Israel weathering sanctions before they allow the Palestinians in.

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I don't see the Democrats seriously reforming their Israel policy for at least a decade and that still leaves one major party as pro right wing Israel and by then between climate change, more settlements and more ethnic cleansing it'll be too late.

 

[Chikor]

I know you meant uninhabitable because of military bs but that reminded me that climate change will also affect it.

And Arab states don't even like Palestinians for the most part because A) they wanted the land that israel conquered and B) they blame them for israel's "victories"

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I know you wanted to talk about climate change and Arab States, but I'm not sure why.
I mean, neither of things stand between Palestinians and their human rights.
Israel does.

 

[Bio]

You can do it by being specific about what you're criticizing. Avoid being left open to interpretation. When you claim that "you can't" because people will always misconstrue your words, my takeaway is that you're saying "Because bad actors will always misconstrue what I'm saying in bad faith no matter what I do, it's not worth it to even try."

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The pro-Israel lobby in this country is so big and powerful that our politicians can't even *talk* about it without being criticized, so how exactly do you suggest Omar discuss it without being criticized? What magic words can she use that become acceptable?

It's absolutely ridiculous to put the onus on her to somehow find a non-existent combination of words to make her point that will not upset people who don't even want her in congress talking about anything, let alone the shady relationship between Israel and the US.

Omar is not the problem, her choice of words is not the problem. Bullshit like what you're throwing out in this thread is the problem.

 

[Deleted member 15440]

These are excellent points, however, I fear that no one is looking for a one state solution and I definitely see Israel weathering sanctions before they allow the Palestinians in.

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there is no other solution. it is one state or genocide, arguing for two states is helping the status quo and preventing the only possible resolution.

 

[Deleted member 31817]

I know you wanted to talk about climate change and Arab States, but I'm not sure why.
I mean, neither of things stand between Palestinians and their human rights.
Israel does.

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What? I've been critical of Israel the entire thread. I'm saying that just makes their situation even worse.

 

[Kirblar]

The pro-Israel lobby in this country is so big and powerful that our politicians can't even *talk* about it without being criticized, so how exactly do you suggest Omar discuss it without being criticized? What magic words can she use that become acceptable?

It's absolutely ridiculous to put the onus on her to somehow find a non-existent combination of words to make her point that will not upset people who don't even want her in congress talking about anything, let alone the shady relationship between Israel and the US.

Omar is not the problem, her choice of words is not the problem. Bullshit like what you're throwing out in this thread is the problem.

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The idea that because bad actors are always going to throw shit out that you shouldn't try to adjust to good faith concerns is horrible.

 

[samoyed]

These are excellent points, however, I fear that no one is looking for a one state solution and I definitely see Israel weathering sanctions before they allow the Palestinians in.

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Well Levy's point was, back when two state was possible, they (Israel, Israeli lobby, Israel backers) pushed for one-state. Then, after two-state became functionally impossible, they don't want to talk about one-state anymore and want to sell dreams of two-state.

Really, this back-and-forth from Israel and friends over the last few decades is just stalling for time until the Palestinians die off or they reach a point where they can be ignored forever. They might accept the one state solution once Palestinians are reduced to 500,000 people. At that point, what difference would it make?

 

[Bronx-Man]

As I've said earlier:

The nonsense backlash against Ilhan Omar for supporting Palestine's right to exist is living proof that Dems don't want diversity, they want tokens to trot around for defending idpol.

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[OtherWorldly]

Yeah I feel bad at myself for actually thinking he turned a new leaf in the runup to his presidential campaign. He can't even do that right.

And then we've got Menendez who is just...actually competent but also corrupt as hell and terrible on Israel.


Imagine being this defensive over an independent report that outlines war crimes.

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Isn't Ted Deutch the guy who media was praising as having given a powerful speech against Ilhan for being bigoted? Looks like he can't even accept criticism of israel's War crimes, how is he supposed to be a "powerful" voice

 

[TarNaru33]

Well Levy's point was, back when two state was possible, they (Israel, Israeli lobby, Israel backers) pushed for one-state. Then, after two-state became functionally impossible, they don't want to talk about one-state anymore and want to sell dreams of two-state.

Really, this back-and-forth from Israel and friends over the last few decades is just stalling for time until the Palestinians die off or they reach a point where they can be ignored forever. They might accept the one state solution once Palestinians are reduced to 500,000 people. At that point, what difference would it make?

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Well, there are like 5 million Palestinians there, (not including Arab-israelis).

 

[Volimar]

Please keep in mind the staff post:

This thread is about the House Resolution and public responses by political organizations. Not about the broader Israel/Palestine conflict. Get back on topic.

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[UnpopularBlargh]

Yeah I feel bad at myself for actually thinking he turned a new leaf in the runup to his presidential campaign. He can't even do that right.

And then we've got Menendez who is just...actually competent but also corrupt as hell and terrible on Israel.


Imagine being this defensive over an independent report that outlines war crimes.

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I like how they're like "what about other countries abusing human rights?" while with the resolution it's like "why're you focusing on all hate!"

Well Levy's point was, back when two state was possible, they (Israel, Israeli lobby, Israel backers) pushed for one-state. Then, after two-state became functionally impossible, they don't want to talk about one-state anymore and want to sell dreams of two-state.

Really, this back-and-forth from Israel and friends over the last few decades is just stalling for time until the Palestinians die off or they reach a point where they can be ignored forever. They might accept the one state solution once Palestinians are reduced to 500,000 people. At that point, what difference would it make?

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Not to mention it's not even "back and forth". It's them saying they support a two state solution on one hand while doing everything possible to jeopardize that with the other.

 

[Deleted member 31817]

Isn't Ted Deutch the guy who media was praising as having given a powerful speech against Ilhan for being bigoted? Looks like he can't even accept criticism of israel's War crimes, how is he supposed to be a "powerful" voice

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And he works on the subcommitte dedicated to the middle east

Lol

 

[Bio]

The idea that because bad actors are always going to throw shit out that you shouldn't try to adjust to good faith concerns is horrible.

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She is trying, and if you won't even acknowledge that, why should you expect anyone in congress to?

What I think is really, truly horrible, is that republicans are dragging this woman through the mud, literally trying to connect her to 9/11, claiming that all Muslims are terrorists, saying that by electing her the American people have forgotten their patriotic duty, and here come people like you with your bullshit concern trolling over her word choice.

She is far, far more respectful of Jewish people than she has any obligation to be, far more respectful than any pro-Israel politician has ever been towards anyone of Muslim faith, but yes let's put her on blast for her POOR WORD CHOICE.

Give me a fuckin' break.

 

[Deleted member 22490]

As I've said earlier:

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Yuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuup

 

[jeelybeans]

and here's a current map of the west bank (not including gaza because as i said previously it will be entirely uninhabitable within a few years and everyone living there now will have to move or die).

so even if you accept that palestinians have to give up on ever returning to their homes in current-day israel and accept a tiny partitioned state for themselves, there's nowhere for it to exist. they are being squeezed to death with more and more of their land being taken every day. there is no contiguous space even just in the west bank for a state, and that's assuming israel would ever allow for the existence of a real palestine that does sovereign things like have a military, control their own borders and trade, etc (which they wouldn't).

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There's so much blue there isn't much left. This IS erasure. It only takes another generation for Israel to have control over all of it.

 

[D i Z]

The idea that because bad actors are always going to throw shit out that you shouldn't try to adjust to good faith concerns is horrible.

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In this situation would you be so kind as to do the sub division for us and define who are the bad actors and who is just flat out wrong? The situation is clearly defined historically.

 

[The Turbanator]

Why does my state have such shitty democratic senators

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I live in NY and it's incredible how close my senators are to being Red.

 

[Deleted member 31817]

I live in NY and it's incredible how close my senators are to being Red.

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It's funny too cause Gillibrand actually started veering pretty left after she moved to the Senate and now idk what's going on

 

[The Turbanator]

It's funny too cause Gillibrand actually started veering pretty left after she moved to the Senate and now idk what's going on

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She seems to be drinking some of that Biden "both sides" Kool-Aid thinking it's gonna make her President when all it does is split the moderate vote even more. Ofc this is good for me as a progressive looking almost exclusively at Gabbard, Warren, and Sanders atm, but she's doing more to hurt her own cause than help it.

 

[Deleted member 31817]

She seems to be drinking some of that Biden "both sides" Kool-Aid thinking it's gonna make her President when all it does is split the moderate vote even more. Ofc this is good for me as a progressive looking almost exclusively at Gabbard, Warren, and Sanders atm, but she's doing more to hurt her own cause than help it.

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OT and not to derail but Gabbard is one of the worst candidates. Dont wanna get into all of it now but her track record on foreign affairs and LGBT rights is horrendous.

 

[UnpopularBlargh]

Assholes are now trying to paint AOC as an anti-semite because she retweeted a well know Palestinian activist/columnist (whose written for multiple well known publications) who they're saying is a terrorist sympathizer:

 

[TarNaru33]

She seems to be drinking some of that Biden "both sides" Kool-Aid thinking it's gonna make her President when all it does is split the moderate vote even more. Ofc this is good for me as a progressive looking almost exclusively at Gabbard, Warren, and Sanders atm, but she's doing more to hurt her own cause than help it.

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Lol... rethink that.

Bernie had the best response to this, it's one of the reasons I back him for president.

 

[ThisThingIsUseful]

It's funny too cause Gillibrand actually started veering pretty left after she moved to the Senate and now idk what's going on

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She goes with the wind. She was happy to use the Clintons for decades and now he should have stepped down. She was a blue dog and then she wasn't.

 

[Nashira]

Then there are women of color like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Ilhan Omar, Rashida Tlaib, Nina Turner, and Angela Davis. I really want to like them because it's beneficial to me to use them as props, but I just can't get behind them once they start expressing their beliefs. On one hand, it's like, "Yass kween, do your thang!" but on the other hand it's like, "No kween, please do not do your thang, I am laundering money through a shell corporation registered in Delaware and it simply cannot be taxed."

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[Deleted member 22490]

 

[Deleted member 31817]

Assholes are now trying to paint AOC as an anti-semite because she retweeted a well know Palestinian activist/columnist (whose written for multiple well known publications) who they're saying is a terrorist sympathizer:

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A rag called jerusalem post is biased? Haaretz is the only reputable Israeli newspaper I've come across.

 

[Dude Abides]

The idea that because bad actors are always going to throw shit out that you shouldn't try to adjust to good faith concerns is horrible.

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Equally horrible is the notion that you should adjust to slanders simply because they're sincerely held.

 

[Deleted member 31817]

She goes with the wind. She was happy to use the Clintons for decades and now he should have stepped down. She was a blue dog and then she wasn't.

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Well yeah but I figured the wind would be more progressive as senator (which it was) and not flip back to her House days.

anyway related to haaretz

https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/.premium-keep-it-up-ilhan-omar-1.6999623

They have a ton of similar articles pointing out how crazy this entire situation is. When an Israeli newspaper does a better job of criticizing Israel than the US lol

 

[Brown Intruder]

Of course the thralls are gonna hound anyone that criticizes their masters.

And that bias HRC. Totally transparent

 

[Nashira]

The idea that because bad actors are always going to throw shit out that you shouldn't try to adjust to good faith concerns is horrible.

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What's the good faith concern here exactly?

I feel like I heard the same thing on a bunch of online forums back in 2014 when Gamergate was going on, in terms of "surely these people who have good faith concerns about women in games should be taken seriously", while that same level of concern and respect was never afforded to the victims of harassment. Which seems to be the same case with Omar here.

 

[Jersey_Tom]

In this situation would you be so kind as to do the sub division for us and define who are the bad actors and who is just flat out wrong? The situation is clearly defined historically.

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I mean it can easily be seen who the bad actors are just by looking up who some of the most prominent people to condemn Omar are.

Scalise, Meadows, Trump, RNC Chair Ronna McDaniel, Daily Wire's Michael Knowles just to name a few.

But it's clear from Omar's own comments on the matter that there are people who were offended by some of her speech who approached her genuinely and explained to her how her comments can carry an extra weight she didn't intend. Again, I'd say this is more or less a rookie mistake on her part, flexing a little too much on Twitter with a quick zinger that doesn't help contextualize her overall point. The other stuff can be pointed to as nothing more than lies and exaggerations intended specifically to ride Omar rather than attack an actual problematic statement.

So to Kirblar's point, it's possible to not support the Benjamin's statement and still support Omar's overall message which can be delivered in a much better way than Twitter jabs.

 

[effingvic]

Assholes are now trying to paint AOC as an anti-semite because she retweeted a well know Palestinian activist/columnist (whose written for multiple well known publications) who they're saying is a terrorist sympathizer:

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AIPAC has threatened to fund her opponents and primary her. Now she'll always have to be on defense about this issue. I feel at this point that even if AOC became AIPACs biggest supporter, her opponents will try to smear her as an anti semite for every little thing. She should have stuck to her convictions from the get go.

 

[Realyst]

Absolutely. Bernie shot into Pole position as far as I'm concerned for 2020. Kamala, Gilly, Booker can fuck right off. I'm so glad Ilhan said what she said because it's showing everyone's true colors.

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What did Kamala say that you didn't like? I think her response was decent in that she first acknowledged that anti-semeticism is wrong. But then, she went to bat for Omar by saying folks need to back off.

It's a power move, "know your role, I'm in charge".

I really wish she got challenged from the left.
She along with Schumer are a terrible disservice to the party in both chambers.

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Umm...why are you equating Pelosi with Schumer? Pelosi has been, outside of this snafu, quite impressive in governing, messaging, and creating power plays since being back as Speaker. Schumer can kick rocks as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Deleted member 31817]

What did Kamala say that you didn't like? I think her response was decent in that she first acknowledged that anti-semeticism is wrong. But then, she went to bat for Omar by saying folks need to back off.


Umm...why are you equating Pelosi with Schumer? Pelosi has been, outside of this snafu, quite impressive in governing, messaging, and creating power plays since being back as Speaker. Schumer can kick rocks as far as I'm concerned.

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Yeah again the issue with Pelosi is moreso her party lags behind on foreign policy. Domestically she's a beast, I also agree that Kamala's response wasn't that bad (certainly didn't change my opinion of her in any significant way) and that Schumer is awful, especially on this issue.

 

[Chikor]

So to Kirblar's point, it's possible to not support the Benjamin's statement and still support Omar's overall message which can be delivered in a much better way than Twitter jabs.

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It is possible, but somehow all the people who shit on her for her word choice, also seem to happen to disagree with her on BDS.
Which raises the question - isn't her support for BDS a bigger deal than this shit? why are we always talking about tropes rather than a policy idea that if implemented would have dramatic effects on Israel and the Palestinians?

I mean, it's not a mystery why, it's because Israel and the GOP don't want to talk about it, that's why it's in the GOP platform that BDS=racism, and which is why every single person ever who supported BDS was accused of being antisemite.

 

[Jeb]

Can someone fill me in on this?
I read a few things she said on twitter and nothing was anti-Semitic. From my understanding, she was strictly talking about the Israeli government and the allegiance with the US.

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There was nothing wrong with Omar's statement.
it is strictly politically taboo to talk about Isreal in any bad light.

Why are people forced to pledge loyalty to a foreign state instead of their own?

Why are tax payers paying billions to foreign country that has a strong economy while their own is suffering from massive debt problems?

Why are we constantly shielding the same country for its daily routine crimes against humanity: namely genocide?

Is the fact that your politicians putting a foriegn lobby group's interest ahead of your own country treason?

These are not questions your allowed to ask and the political establishment will have your head for it.

This time there was a surprise as people are calling out their bullshit.

 

[studyguy]

Well okay, I'm sure they'll justify it by saying they didn't name Omar specifically but spinning voting no on an 'anti hate' resolution sure is something.

Oh wait there's more... a lot more.