How can there be a chunk of the Death Star on Endor despite the fact it exploded?

Ogodei

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
7,886
Coruscant
I know you think I should agree with you, but I don't see narrative significance as something that should always be foreshadowed. Steerpike only gradually evolves into the villain of Gormenghast. Likewise with little Annakin in the prequels. And sometimes it's okay to resort to retcon, as with the entirety of Captain Marvel.
I think we're closer in opinion than we're both thinking. I agree that retcon is fine, I'm just cutting against the idea that this is not worth discussing.
 

Guy.brush

Member
Oct 27, 2017
739
If that size is correct then crashing down on the planet would be an extinction level event, surely?
Most sources cite the DS1 being ~ 120km and DS2 ~160km in diameter.
If you make a rough visual calculation, the DS2 dish is ~40km. So yes. A 45 km debris piece raining down on Endor with the force of the DS2 reactor explosion would basically tear Endor a new one. It would be a E.L.E. for sure.
The vfx shot of DS2 exploding had debris the size of 1-2 kilometers max from what it looked like.
 

samoyed

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,974
If there's a point where my suspension of disbelief is violated, it's that such a large piece of the Death Star made it intact all the way through the atmosphere, and that it didn't create a massive crater where it landed. Assuming this is new space age material that can resist atmospheric reentry and survive the impact, the size of it puts it on the same level as the meteor theorized to have wiped out the dinosaurs.

Do we see an extinction level impact on Endor? No.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicxulub_impactor
The Chicxulub impactor (/ˈtʃiːkʃəluːb/ CHEEK-shə-loob), also known as the K/Pg impactor and (more speculatively) as the Chicxulub asteroid, was an asteroid or other celestial body some 11 to 81 kilometres (7 to 50 mi) in diameter and having a mass between 1.0 x 10^15 and 4.6 x 10^17 kilograms,[3] which struck the Earth at the end of the Cretaceous period, approximately 66 million years ago,[4] creating the Chicxulub crater. It impacted a few miles from the present-day town of Chicxulub in Mexico, after which the impactor and its crater are named. Because the estimated date of the object's impact and the Cretaceous–Paleogene boundary (K–Pg boundary) coincide, there is a scientific consensus that its impact was the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event which caused the death of the planet's non-avian dinosaurs and many other species.[5][6]
 
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OP
DiipuSurotu

DiipuSurotu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,522
France
If there's a point where my suspension of disbelief is violated, it's that such a large piece of the Death Star made it intact all the way through the atmosphere, and that it didn't create a massive crater where it landed. Assuming this is new space age material that can resist atmospheric reentry and survive the impact, the size of it puts it on the same level as the meteor theorized to have wiped out the dinosaurs.

Do we see an extinction level impact on Endor? No.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicxulub_impactor
I thought the weird-looking ocean around this chunk is the crater.
 

Guy.brush

Member
Oct 27, 2017
739
I have a better explanation, it's just far away.
Look at the stack of 40x Burj Khalifas and picture those in your head at the distance the dish is at.
Does the ocean, the fog and especially the cloud ceiling really look convincing to you then? Clouds look like they are way below 5km.
Highest clouds on Earth go 12km high. Sure it is an alien planet but that shot is just not properly done scale wise. Not to speak of the missing impact crater. This thing looks like it gently swooped down into the ocean.
 
Oct 26, 2017
1,638
LMAO at people trying to put together logical reasons for this. Real answer is of course JJ saw some cool concept art.
What a shitty reductive answer. You have no clue how much thought was put into it, but yeah, let’s just make drive bys hand-waving the idea that anyone actually put thought behind this idea because it fits your beliefs.
 

MisterHero

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,887
I don't know how you arrived at that conclusion because you're wrong. In canon, both old and new, and in the movie itself its established that Alderaan left a large debris field. It wasn't reduced to nothing.
When they exited hyperspace, there were no massive chunks of Alderaan. They managed to view a TIE Fighter and the Death Star itself though.

It's fine if they want to retool elements of those scenes. But that's what they are.
 

DarthWoo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
909
When they exited hyperspace, there were no massive chunks of Alderaan. They managed to view a TIE Fighter and the Death Star itself though.

It's fine if they want to retool elements of those scenes. But that's what they are.
There was an asteroid field that shouldn't have been there. They would obviously not have been exiting hyperspace aimed directly at the planet, so we'd only get to see the edge of whatever was there.
 

Droidian

Avenger
Dec 28, 2017
1,211
This is the one thing that bugged me from the teaser but I just put it aside as "eh it's a movie thing"
 

Famassu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,649
LMAO at people trying to put together logical reasons for this. Real answer is of course JJ saw some cool concept art.
"Debris from exploding gigantic structure in space lands on moon/planet" isn't exactly rocket science levels of logic. Well, the physics behind it technically kind of is, but as a concept it's hardly some kind of extreme reaching.
 

SamAlbro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,737
Because an explosion isn't the same thing as disintegration. The force of the explosion would push outward, fracturing the death star along it's lines of least resistance, and then forcibly hurl the pieces away from it's focal point.
 

DragonKeeper

Member
Nov 14, 2017
677
Things happen to serve the story. And cool looking explosions in movies are not accurate representations of physics.
 

Guy.brush

Member
Oct 27, 2017
739
Because an explosion isn't the same thing as disintegration. The force of the explosion would push outward, fracturing the death star along it's lines of least resistance, and then forcibly hurl the pieces away from it's focal point.
Think OPs question also relates to how it is possible that a ~50km debris piece hurled at explosive speeds towards (presumably) Endor did not totally devastate and with it disintegrate at least a full continent on that planet? The last teaser shot is the typical JJ piece of concept art ruin anchored at the horizon for the heroes to look at thing. But it does not make sense from a physics POV and the scale in that shot is way off.
JJ being the master of "Starkiller base shooting through hyperspace seen in real-time from all kinds of different planets" obviously does not give a damn about stuff like that. It is a reused TFA concept art piece that fit the resurrection of Palpatine, physical reality be damned.
 

Guy.brush

Member
Oct 27, 2017
739
Here is a good composite picture of how damn far away the DS2 dish would have to be for that last teaser shot to make sense.
That asteroid hanging above the bay is ~ 1/25th of what the DS2 dish would clock in at.
The Dionysus asteroid is part of the Apollo asteroid belt. The Dionysus asteroid is estimated to be 1.5 km wide or 4921.26 feet. The value of the resources estimated to be within the asteroid is around $2,600,000,000,000. If the asteroid was placed above the Golden Gate Bridge, it wouldn't even surpass the bridge span.

And look how low that shot is above the ocean level vs. the one with the asteroid.
 

Scuffed

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,167
I agree. Such a large piece intact like that on the planet looks stupid. Yes we all know space wizards and laser swords but just because something is fantasy doesn't mean you abandon all logic. By that rational lets just randomly have everything random in every Fantasy movie and forget continuity or consistency of the world that is presented.
 

Lmo2017

Member
More Space Magic! What if instead of it crashing there, parts of the death star are being drawn there and it's slowly being re assembled on the surface as some funky Sheev Shrine?

That would be enough to draw the attention of everyone who would be involved/interested.
 

Guy.brush

Member
Oct 27, 2017
739
I agree. Such a large piece intact like that on the planet looks stupid. Yes we all know space wizards and laser swords but just because something is fantasy doesn't mean you abandon all logic. By that rational lets just randomly have everything random in every Fantasy movie and forget continuity or consistency of the world that is presented.
Agreed.


For me it is not just that though. I hate watching older entries in a franchise with the knowledge of newer ones reusing certain bits and pieces and then instead of enjoying the old scenes, being concious of the fact that somewhere down the line in EpIX or Genisys or whatever they messed that bit up. So instead of enjoying the boom from DS2 and the victory, Han awkwardly kissing Leia and starting their relationship I'm now reminded of the inconsistency coming from Episode IX. Why were they not mortally afraid of the giant 50km piece hurling towards them at explosive speeds?
Ah well, not that anything can ever top Han and Leia's sweet start of their marriage now also foreshadowing asshole brat Vader fanboy's rule and murdering of his father..
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,216
Here is a good composite picture of how damn far away the DS2 dish would have to be for that last teaser shot to make sense.
That asteroid hanging above the bay is ~ 1/25th of what the DS2 dish would clock in at.
The Dionysus asteroid is part of the Apollo asteroid belt. The Dionysus asteroid is estimated to be 1.5 km wide or 4921.26 feet. The value of the resources estimated to be within the asteroid is around $2,600,000,000,000. If the asteroid was placed above the Golden Gate Bridge, it wouldn't even surpass the bridge span.

And look how low that shot is above the ocean level vs. the one with the asteroid.
It looks cool, so logic doesn't matter.
 

ChrisJSY

Member
Oct 29, 2017
876
Sometimes I think people either over-think or don't think at all when it comes to stuff like this.
It blew up in to pieces when it was was close to a gravity well and these pieces fell back to it and we're done, an object that size would be a considerable impact but it likely wasn't travelling at speeds you'd expect of a global event.

Accuracy is size likely is off, we don't know the distance involved.
 

Ashhong

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,197
I realize we are all nerds on an enthusiast forum, but goddamn. Sometimes it's just too much
 

Bengraven

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,764
I read comics. Comics do much weirder shit. It’s a cool visual and will have interesting story beats.
 

Matt

The Terror that Flaps in the Night
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
2,795
Star Wars is a fantasy epic, not a science fiction one.

Things like this don’t have to make sense.
 

MechaX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,175
This topic shows me that there are always some willing to go beyond even Cinema Sins when it comes to blowing stuff way out of proportion
 

MisterHero

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,887
I feel like most people who make threads or post like this aren’t actually fans. They're here to shit on the movies under the guise of being life long fans.
Actually, a lot of people like to criticize because they love Star Wars and believe the franchise can be better than it is. It's true that not a lot of criticism offers technical insight but most people can tell when something doesn't feel right.

An artist should be their own worst critic anyways.
 
Oct 27, 2017
14,270
If there's a point where my suspension of disbelief is violated, it's that such a large piece of the Death Star made it intact all the way through the atmosphere, and that it didn't create a massive crater where it landed. Assuming this is new space age material that can resist atmospheric reentry and survive the impact, the size of it puts it on the same level as the meteor theorized to have wiped out the dinosaurs.

Do we see an extinction level impact on Endor? No.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicxulub_impactor
Thanks for being literally the only other person who wondered the same thing I did
 

Famassu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,649
Wouldn't the chunks cause some pretty serious damage to the moon? There was some serious kinetic energy at work.
A structure like the Death Star is mostly hollow. Pretty sure it wouldn't have the mass or impact of a huge asteroid.

Besides, decades have gone by since this thing has fallen down. Maybe it did cause some damage but nature is pretty quick to take over again. We don't even know what planet/moon that is. Even if it is the same with Ewoks, as has been pointed out, these things don't just drop like an apple from the tree. It might've been circling whatever planet/moon it dropped to for quite some time before gravity did its job.
 

lunarworks

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,127
Toronto
Some of you guys should never watch Godzilla movies.



He can differ in size even in different parts of a single movie.

The whole 120 km size of the Death Star was absurd to begin with. Was it even defined in the movies?
 

PBalfredo

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,737
I really can't fucking believe this thread. When did we all become so hyper-literal in the way we watch movies? Instead of seeing an explosion FX and realizing that it is representative of an explosion of colossal degree of destruction, we are taking that explosion FX and applying it so strictly that we are ruling out the possibility of anything that could not be rendered by blowing up a beach-ball sized model with firecrackers. That 1983 model blew up so finely that we must take it to mean that the Death Star was vaporized. Disintegrated into dust. Alderaan too, even though that's contradicted in the very same movie; there is an Alderaan debris field despite how finely that model exploded. So now we're looking at canon debris of the Death Star and instead of realizing that the representational explosion in RotJ, which was enough to sell the fact that the Death Star fucking blew up, implied the debris we are now seeing, we're instead treating this as some sort of retcon because it doesn't fit a hyper-literal view where the reality of Star Wars is only as good as the effects that render it. That's like actually making up in-universe reasons for why Jar Jar's skin became better defined between episode I and III and saying saying episode III recons how Jar Jar looks.
 

Lord Panda

Member
Oct 27, 2017
971
Australia
A structure like the Death Star is mostly hollow. Pretty sure it wouldn't have the mass or impact of a huge asteroid.

Besides, decades have gone by since this thing has fallen down. Maybe it did cause some damage but nature is pretty quick to take over again. We don't even know what planet/moon that is. Even if it is the same with Ewoks, as has been pointed out, these things don't just drop like an apple from the tree. It might've been circling whatever planet/moon it dropped to for quite some time before gravity did its job.
As long as the Ewoks are dead then I'm fine with it.
 

Burrman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,496
I really can't fucking believe this thread. When did we all become so hyper-literal in the way we watch movies? Instead of seeing an explosion FX and realizing that it is representative of an explosion of colossal degree of destruction, we are taking that explosion FX and applying it so strictly that we are ruling out the possibility of anything that could not be rendered by blowing up a beach-ball sized model with firecrackers. That 1983 model blew up so finely that we must take it to mean that the Death Star was vaporized. Disintegrated into dust. Alderaan too, even though that's contradicted in the very same movie; there is an Alderaan debris field despite how finely that model exploded. So now we're looking at canon debris of the Death Star and instead of realizing that the representational explosion in RotJ, which was enough to sell the fact that the Death Star fucking blew up, implied the debris we are now seeing, we're instead treating this as some sort of retcon because it doesn't fit a hyper-literal view where the reality of Star Wars is only as good as the effects that render it. That's like actually making up in-universe reasons for why Jar Jar's skin became better defined between episode I and III and saying saying episode III recons how Jar Jar looks.
Perfect. I swear only Star Wars gets this nitpick treatment. Nobody questions all the bullshit in other movies because they’re ... movies. It’s like people think Star Wars is a documentary from along time ago in a galaxy far far away it something. It’s not a realistic sci-fi movie. It’s a fantasy. Imagine the kids in 1977 thinking like this. Jeez