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How can there be a chunk of the Death Star on Endor despite the fact it exploded?

Oct 30, 2017
6,150
So, I'm waiting for Netflix to cancel Mystery Science Theater 3000. I love that show more than anything, but I know it's coming. Fans had to literally pay to bring it back. It'll likely be the last time I ever get new MST3K. Two shots (three if you count Sci-Fi picking it up in the original run) That's it. Do I like every episode? Is the return as good as the original? No. But I knew it never would be. Because I grew up loving it as a kid. Now as an adult with a crushed spirit, so few new experiences bring me joy like the return of a fictional show that meant so much to me growing up and hoping that starry-eyed kids today would love it just as much as I did.

Then you have Star Wars. A franchise with entries out the ass and more on the way for all eternity. Movies. Spinoffs. Shows. Books. Merchandise. Theme parks. It's all there for you. Everything you could ever want.

And here we are complaining about the fucking size of Death Star debris.

Fans as joyless as this deserve absolutely nothing.
EXCUSE ME but *adjusts glasses* actually, some of us care about a little thing called realism! It's about having standards, something you would obviously know nothing about as a "fan" of MST3K who's happy to lap up any old slop Netflix will throw at you!

Now pay attention, this concerns you: I've been working on a very important video essay called Everything Wrong with Netflix's MST3K...
 
Oct 31, 2017
164
Los Angeles
"How is there still a small chunk of the Death Star around?"

I dunno. How the fuck do ships designed for flying in space do just as well in the sky? How does Darth Maul survive getting cut in half and dropped down a huge well? Why are explosions in space visible? Why do tie fighters and XWings make sounds in the vaccum of space? Because WHO THE HELL CARES?! Just enjoy the space wizard movie.
 
Oct 27, 2017
602
It bothered me a little to see such a massive hunk like that in the trailer. It seemed mostly vaporized in ROTJ and the few small pieces we see shooting out were much smaller than that huge piece seen in the trailer. But okay, the initial explosion had a lot of smoke and gas in the initial moments of the explosion, so once it cleared up there could have been huge hunks remaining that got pulled onto Endor's surface. So I can readily excuse it.

The implied size of Death Star II bothered me a lot more (assuming of course that it is Death Star II). The piece in the ocean looks barely bigger than a Star Destroyer, and it was shown in ROTJ that when the Super Star Destroyer crashed onto Death Star II, the Super Star Destroyer was tiny compared to it. DSII is supposed to be the spherical size of New Mexico, and based on the trailer it looks like someone could have driven across it within half an hour.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,046
Contrary to popular belief, "But space wizards" is not an end all excuse for everything dumb that happens in Star Wars. Fantasy can still be consistent within its own framework. The most recognizable part of the Death Star conveniently landing on whats possibly a familar moon isnt the most questionable thing in the series, but its still pretty stupid.

ie. The scene in TPM with Anakin finding a tiny helmet and accidentally fucking shit up in the Naboo ship is excessively stupid and makes the stakes feel completely empty (especially with how serious the movie tries to go at the end). No amount of "but space wizards" makes that shit any better.
Cute but nah, Star Wars is full of bullshit and inconsistencies. Anyone who actually cares about the series and the universe should probably also be ready so say “yeah okay” to pretty much any logical inconsistency it prevents. Doing otherwise would generally lead to a pretty miserable experience with most Star Wars content imo.

Many space scenes rely on ships acting in a way which would only work with air around the ship or big thrusters all over it on every surface, which they don’t have. Just don’t think about it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
10,637
Cute but nah, Star Wars is full of bullshit and inconsistencies. Anyone who actually cares about the series and the universe should probably also be ready so say “yeah okay” to pretty much any logical inconsistency it prevents. Doing otherwise would generally lead to a pretty miserable experience with most Star Wars content imo.

Many space scenes rely on ships acting in a way which would only work with air around the ship or big thrusters all over it on every surface, which they don’t have. Just don’t think about it.
Never said I had a problem with breaking the laws of physics in that classic star wars manner. Thats part of the appeal if, anything.
Its more the fact that the Death Star is back again in a really contrived manner.
 
Aug 20, 2018
3,618
can't wait for OP on his thoughts about certain stuff in 'star wars' like 'how the force make sense in physics terms' or 'why Obi Wan called Darth Vader 'Darth' in episode 4' or 'how the frak Ewoks managed to defeat an army of stormtroopers'...
 
Oct 29, 2017
687
If there's a point where my suspension of disbelief is violated, it's that such a large piece of the Death Star made it intact all the way through the atmosphere, and that it didn't create a massive crater where it landed. Assuming this is new space age material that can resist atmospheric reentry and survive the impact, the size of it puts it on the same level as the meteor theorized to have wiped out the dinosaurs.

Do we see an extinction level impact on Endor? No.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicxulub_impactor
Why would it not survive entry through the atmosphere? Displacement aside it wasn't orbiting anything and just sat out in space relative to a planet, and Chicxulub was estimated to be around 20km/s on impact alone, not it's full speed. Do you think this fell at + 20km/s?

It likely did make a crater, it's just so damned big and in a body of water to you know, fill it up.

Suspension of disbelief is one thing, not understanding why things break up or not in the atmosphere is another.

Things don't just burn up entering just because, it's because of friction at high speeds. The shuttle/soyuz capsule does this because the only way to stay in orbit is to reach high speeds and the only way to slow down it so use the atmosphere as a break. Made of materials likely way inferior to this sci-fi/sci-fantasy settings.

Speaking of which, parts still remaining from the Columbia accident, some almost fully intact, pieces that are incomprehensibly smaller than a deathstar, entering the atmosphere at about 3600 times slower than Chicxulub. Why are you even comparing an asteroid to .....this?
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,046
Never said I had a problem with breaking the laws of physics in that classic star wars manner. Thats part of the appeal if, anything.
Its more the fact that the Death Star is back again in a really contrived manner.
It was back in a contrived manner when they built the “Death Star x 3-4 lasers tho”. Who cares? It’s Star Wars.
 
Oct 28, 2017
639
I dont get why the films have so much death star shit in them. It was a good concept the first time. But come on. Its pretty boring if its all they come up with. Maybe after the Skywalker stuff ends they also end the death stars.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,350
palpatine used the force to keep a chunk of it together as his escape pod because he had not mastered the advanced jedi technique of surviving in the vacuum of space.
Still don't get who the fuck thought that was a good idea. It looked like something out of 80s fan movie. Genuinely one of the dumbest things I've saw in a major movie in the last 20 years.
 
Oct 25, 2017
10,637
Still don't get who the fuck thought that was a good idea. It looked like something out of 80s fan movie. Genuinely one of the dumbest things I've saw in a major movie in the last 20 years.
That wouldn't have been as strange if she were just sucked out into space, but there was the whole room exploding before that. But "who cares, its Star Wars" means any criticism you might have is invalid, I guess. As unrealistic as Star Wars generally is, they do usually make a point of showing even the most powerful characters as susceptible to being physically hurt like everyone else when it came down to it.
 
Oct 27, 2017
602
Actually say if a chunk of it did land on the planet. Does this mean it caused a planet wide extinction event and the Ewoks all died?
I've studied the Chicxulub impact a good deal. The key is that not only was the meteor big enough, but that it was traveling to Earth at an incredible speed because it started from far away and picked up speed due to the Sun and Earth's gravity. The Death Star II's debris would be traveling far slower because was just outside of Endor and the debris didn't have time to pick up speed.

However, the Death Star II is far, far bigger than the Manhattan-sized impactor that hit Earth, and it's likely that a small moon like Endor being hit by millions of smaller pieces from a Texas-sized Death Star would superheat the atmosphere like the Chicxulub crater did (a meter of seawater boiled off across the whole Earth due to the atmosphere heating up from the impact) and would therefore burn everything alive on Endor. The whole biosphere would be reduced to ash and it'd be impact winter for a long time. This is all assuming a scientifically accurate event of course. Endor was just fine in the ROTJ celebration which took place half a day after the Death Star's destruction, and no one seemed concerned.
 
OP
OP
DiipuSurotu
Oct 25, 2017
8,971
France
I've studied the Chicxulub impact a good deal. The key is that not only was the meteor big enough, but that it was traveling to Earth at an incredible speed because it started from far away and picked up speed due to the Sun and Earth's gravity. The Death Star II's debris would be traveling far slower because was just outside of Endor and the debris didn't have time to pick up speed.

However, the Death Star II is far, far bigger than the Manhattan-sized impactor that hit Earth, and it's likely that a small moon like Endor being hit by millions of smaller pieces from a Texas-sized Death Star would superheat the atmosphere like the Chicxulub crater did (a meter of seawater boiled off across the whole Earth due to the atmosphere heating up from the impact) and would therefore burn everything alive on Endor. The whole biosphere would be reduced to ash and it'd be impact winter for a long time. This is all assuming a scientifically accurate event of course. Endor was just fine in the ROTJ celebration which took place half a day after the Death Star's destruction, and no one seemed concerned.
Apparently it took a while for the chunks of Death Star II to de-orbit and fall on the ground
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,588
It'd be pretty hard for there to be a big chunk of the Death Star on Endor if it didn't explode...

Poor Star Wars. It's such a mess now. Everyone seems incredibly eager to rip every scene to shreds. Now we are debating the size of explosion debris.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,224
TN
I like how it's just sitting there like it floated down.. its a movie - let them have it... My first half-a-second thought was how did the Alien ship get there...now that Fox is owned by Disney anything is probable
 
Oct 26, 2017
5,774
An interesting thought I just had was that the debris from the Death Star II explosion would've been caught in Endor's gravity well (not all of it, but some of it). Over time, this could coalesce into a disc and then eventually a moon. The remnants of "that's no moon" might one day become a moon, a companion moon for the Forest Moon of Endor.
 
Oct 26, 2017
1,720
It doesn’t make sense, but they’re desperate to get older fans back on board after taking a massive diarrhea dump on them for the first two movies and since they’ve already killed off Han and Luke, Palpatine must be next on the list even though he was already dead.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,135
Threads like this get under my skin a bit. The legitimacy of this is questioned but how someone encased in carbonite could survive, how lightsabers defy the laws of physics, or that the force existing is accepted without question most of the time.
 
Oct 26, 2017
5,774
The legitimacy of this is questioned but how someone encased in carbonite could survive, how lightsabers defy the laws of physics, or that the force existing is accepted without question most of the time.
I accept that the Force exists and we see the consequences of the Force existing all the time. My curiosity here is regarding what are the consequences of large pieces of an interplanetary warship falling onto planets with no obvious repercussions. It's not just "how it happened" but also "what does it mean for the universe that such a thing can happen?".
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,136
Criticizing Rian Johnson? "wow fucking haters, Star Wars just is like that u know"

Asking an almost parodical question "because JJ abrams does what JJ does"


Loving this. The sequel trilogy kinda managed to make the star wars fandom even more annoying than after the prequels.
 
Oct 27, 2017
690
It could be one of the other moons of the Endor gas giant I guess
It's not the Forest Moon of Endor, it's the Grassy Coast Moon of Endor.

But also there are clearly large bodies of water here:



And the Death Star II is so incredibly small in comparison and in a surprisingly close orbit:



It was also only, what, just under 200 km in diameter? It's not even remotely a solid core. I'm sure it'd fuck some things up on Endor, but could it be that bad?
 
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Oct 25, 2017
3,472
I'm starting to get the feeling that JJ is more in love with filling his movies full of Star Wars iconography than actually expanding or contributing interesting events to the series
 
Dec 1, 2017
1,782
This is one of those things that fall under "It's fine tho" to me. It's one of those things where something not making sense is still okay because the radness seems large enough to outweigh the lack of sense.