I think we're closer in opinion than we're both thinking. I agree that retcon is fine, I'm just cutting against the idea that this is not worth discussing.
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How can there be a chunk of the Death Star on Endor despite the fact it exploded?
- Thread starter DiipuSurotu
- Start date
I think we're closer in opinion than we're both thinking. I agree that retcon is fine, I'm just cutting against the idea that this is not worth discussing.
OP
OP
Most sources cite the DS1 being ~ 120km and DS2 ~160km in diameter.
If you make a rough visual calculation, the DS2 dish is ~40km. So yes. A 45 km debris piece raining down on Endor with the force of the DS2 reactor explosion would basically tear Endor a new one. It would be a E.L.E. for sure.
The vfx shot of DS2 exploding had debris the size of 1-2 kilometers max from what it looked like.
If there's a point where my suspension of disbelief is violated, it's that such a large piece of the Death Star made it intact all the way through the atmosphere, and that it didn't create a massive crater where it landed. Assuming this is new space age material that can resist atmospheric reentry and survive the impact, the size of it puts it on the same level as the meteor theorized to have wiped out the dinosaurs.
Do we see an extinction level impact on Endor? No.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicxulub_impactor
Do we see an extinction level impact on Endor? No.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicxulub_impactor
OP
OP
I thought the weird-looking ocean around this chunk is the crater.
Look at the stack of 40x Burj Khalifas and picture those in your head at the distance the dish is at.
Does the ocean, the fog and especially the cloud ceiling really look convincing to you then? Clouds look like they are way below 5km.
Highest clouds on Earth go 12km high. Sure it is an alien planet but that shot is just not properly done scale wise. Not to speak of the missing impact crater. This thing looks like it gently swooped down into the ocean.
What a shitty reductive answer. You have no clue how much thought was put into it, but yeah, let's just make drive bys hand-waving the idea that anyone actually put thought behind this idea because it fits your beliefs.
When they exited hyperspace, there were no massive chunks of Alderaan. They managed to view a TIE Fighter and the Death Star itself though.
It's fine if they want to retool elements of those scenes. But that's what they are.
There was an asteroid field that shouldn't have been there. They would obviously not have been exiting hyperspace aimed directly at the planet, so we'd only get to see the edge of whatever was there.
"Debris from exploding gigantic structure in space lands on moon/planet" isn't exactly rocket science levels of logic. Well, the physics behind it technically kind of is, but as a concept it's hardly some kind of extreme reaching.
Things happen to serve the story. And cool looking explosions in movies are not accurate representations of physics.
Think OPs question also relates to how it is possible that a ~50km debris piece hurled at explosive speeds towards (presumably) Endor did not totally devastate and with it disintegrate at least a full continent on that planet? The last teaser shot is the typical JJ piece of concept art ruin anchored at the horizon for the heroes to look at thing. But it does not make sense from a physics POV and the scale in that shot is way off.
JJ being the master of "Starkiller base shooting through hyperspace seen in real-time from all kinds of different planets" obviously does not give a damn about stuff like that. It is a reused TFA concept art piece that fit the resurrection of Palpatine, physical reality be damned.
Here is a good composite picture of how damn far away the DS2 dish would have to be for that last teaser shot to make sense.
That asteroid hanging above the bay is ~ 1/25th of what the DS2 dish would clock in at.
The Dionysus asteroid is part of the Apollo asteroid belt. The Dionysus asteroid is estimated to be 1.5 km wide or 4921.26 feet. The value of the resources estimated to be within the asteroid is around $2,600,000,000,000. If the asteroid was placed above the Golden Gate Bridge, it wouldn't even surpass the bridge span.
And look how low that shot is above the ocean level vs. the one with the asteroid.
That asteroid hanging above the bay is ~ 1/25th of what the DS2 dish would clock in at.
The Dionysus asteroid is part of the Apollo asteroid belt. The Dionysus asteroid is estimated to be 1.5 km wide or 4921.26 feet. The value of the resources estimated to be within the asteroid is around $2,600,000,000,000. If the asteroid was placed above the Golden Gate Bridge, it wouldn't even surpass the bridge span.
And look how low that shot is above the ocean level vs. the one with the asteroid.
Sheev powers made it so it quietly landed in the ocean. It's his Horcrux.
It's like space magic, man.
It's like space magic, man.
OP
OP
What if Luke is the one who slowed down its fall using Jedi superpower?
I agree. Such a large piece intact like that on the planet looks stupid. Yes we all know space wizards and laser swords but just because something is fantasy doesn't mean you abandon all logic. By that rational lets just randomly have everything random in every Fantasy movie and forget continuity or consistency of the world that is presented.
What if it's not a piece of debris at all and Endor is the new Death Star?
More Space Magic! What if instead of it crashing there, parts of the death star are being drawn there and it's slowly being re assembled on the surface as some funky Sheev Shrine?
That would be enough to draw the attention of everyone who would be involved/interested.
That would be enough to draw the attention of everyone who would be involved/interested.
Agreed.
For me it is not just that though. I hate watching older entries in a franchise with the knowledge of newer ones reusing certain bits and pieces and then instead of enjoying the old scenes, being concious of the fact that somewhere down the line in EpIX or Genisys or whatever they messed that bit up. So instead of enjoying the boom from DS2 and the victory, Han awkwardly kissing Leia and starting their relationship I'm now reminded of the inconsistency coming from Episode IX. Why were they not mortally afraid of the giant 50km piece hurling towards them at explosive speeds?
Ah well, not that anything can ever top Han and Leia's sweet start of their marriage now also foreshadowing asshole brat Vader fanboy's rule and murdering of his father..
Here is a good composite picture of how damn far away the DS2 dish would have to be for that last teaser shot to make sense.
That asteroid hanging above the bay is ~ 1/25th of what the DS2 dish would clock in at.
The Dionysus asteroid is part of the Apollo asteroid belt. The Dionysus asteroid is estimated to be 1.5 km wide or 4921.26 feet. The value of the resources estimated to be within the asteroid is around $2,600,000,000,000. If the asteroid was placed above the Golden Gate Bridge, it wouldn't even surpass the bridge span.
And look how low that shot is above the ocean level vs. the one with the asteroid.
It looks cool, so logic doesn't matter.
Sometimes I think people either over-think or don't think at all when it comes to stuff like this.
It blew up in to pieces when it was was close to a gravity well and these pieces fell back to it and we're done, an object that size would be a considerable impact but it likely wasn't travelling at speeds you'd expect of a global event.
Accuracy is size likely is off, we don't know the distance involved.
It blew up in to pieces when it was was close to a gravity well and these pieces fell back to it and we're done, an object that size would be a considerable impact but it likely wasn't travelling at speeds you'd expect of a global event.
Accuracy is size likely is off, we don't know the distance involved.
I vote for an end to the thread.
Cannon is blight on fictional universes.
I feel like most people who make threads or post like this aren't actually fans. They're here to shit on the movies under the guise of being life long fans.
Star Wars is a fantasy epic, not a science fiction one.
Things like this don't have to make sense.
Things like this don't have to make sense.
Wouldn't the chunks cause some pretty serious damage to the moon? There was some serious kinetic energy at work.
Not as out of proportion as that section of the Death Star, heyooo!
Actually, a lot of people like to criticize because they love Star Wars and believe the franchise can be better than it is. It's true that not a lot of criticism offers technical insight but most people can tell when something doesn't feel right.
An artist should be their own worst critic anyways.
Thanks for being literally the only other person who wondered the same thing I did
A structure like the Death Star is mostly hollow. Pretty sure it wouldn't have the mass or impact of a huge asteroid.
Besides, decades have gone by since this thing has fallen down. Maybe it did cause some damage but nature is pretty quick to take over again. We don't even know what planet/moon that is. Even if it is the same with Ewoks, as has been pointed out, these things don't just drop like an apple from the tree. It might've been circling whatever planet/moon it dropped to for quite some time before gravity did its job.
Some of you guys should never watch Godzilla movies.
He can differ in size even in different parts of a single movie.
The whole 120 km size of the Death Star was absurd to begin with. Was it even defined in the movies?
He can differ in size even in different parts of a single movie.
The whole 120 km size of the Death Star was absurd to begin with. Was it even defined in the movies?
I really can't fucking believe this thread. When did we all become so hyper-literal in the way we watch movies? Instead of seeing an explosion FX and realizing that it is representative of an explosion of colossal degree of destruction, we are taking that explosion FX and applying it so strictly that we are ruling out the possibility of anything that could not be rendered by blowing up a beach-ball sized model with firecrackers. That 1983 model blew up so finely that we must take it to mean that the Death Star was vaporized. Disintegrated into dust. Alderaan too, even though that's contradicted in the very same movie; there is an Alderaan debris field despite how finely that model exploded. So now we're looking at canon debris of the Death Star and instead of realizing that the representational explosion in RotJ, which was enough to sell the fact that the Death Star fucking blew up, implied the debris we are now seeing, we're instead treating this as some sort of retcon because it doesn't fit a hyper-literal view where the reality of Star Wars is only as good as the effects that render it. That's like actually making up in-universe reasons for why Jar Jar's skin became better defined between episode I and III and saying saying episode III recons how Jar Jar looks.
Perfect. I swear only Star Wars gets this nitpick treatment. Nobody questions all the bullshit in other movies because they're ... movies. It's like people think Star Wars is a documentary from along time ago in a galaxy far far away it something. It's not a realistic sci-fi movie. It's a fantasy. Imagine the kids in 1977 thinking like this. Jeez