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How can THQ Nordic be held accountable for the 8chan AMA? (READ OP)
- Thread starter Hecht
- Start date
You can go further. 8chan has hosted real non-fictional child pornography on their site. Actual children. It was the reason the site was delisted from Google.
You can make Steam hide and stop recommending you anything THQ Nordic makes. If you do this and then directly search for their games, they'll appear dimmed.
https://imgur.com/a/pNlgwde
https://imgur.com/a/pNlgwde
Are they trying to back out of their existing agreements, do you know?
Worth looking into.
Wasn't the place associated with not so fictional stuff too? Either way, this isn't your usual PR fuck up, this is associating your brand with abuse of the worst kind.
Heads need to roll and the culture that allowed fucking *8chan* to even be considered as a site to promote by the PR team, then cleared and encouraged by management needs to change. Otherwise they can swivel.
Some things are bigger than gaming and child abuse is one of them. I can live without these games, these developers can hopefully find places to be represented by that do not do this sort of thing. Otherwise complicit acceptance that "ah it's only PR" is putting your personal pleasure over the suffering of others.
THQ have committed a grave error that has tarnished them almost irreparably, they must take steps to acknowledge this and find ways to support those harmed by the scum at 8chan.
No, one of GMs, Shannon Loftis, directly commented on the link still being available after the apology hours later.
Someone is going to get hurt no matter what. I'll sleep better knowing that my money isn't going to a company who are more than willing to associate themselves with this abhorrent shit
Have Era staff made a decision about THQ Nordic games threads/discussions in here?
While I believe they won't be straight banned, will there be some actions taken? For example, I remember in Kingdom Come threads, there's a staff post at the top of every thread reminding people about the devs' view regarding Gamergate and right-wing. Will THQ Nordic threads be treated the same? And what constitutes THQ Nordic, would Deep Silver games be counted as well?
While I believe they won't be straight banned, will there be some actions taken? For example, I remember in Kingdom Come threads, there's a staff post at the top of every thread reminding people about the devs' view regarding Gamergate and right-wing. Will THQ Nordic threads be treated the same? And what constitutes THQ Nordic, would Deep Silver games be counted as well?
As I said in the previous thread I believe what was conducted was a terrible PR move and an even worse result for THQ showing who is behind some of the strings. Does that mean accountability? Yes. Does that mean a boycott? No, I personally don't believe so because boycotting works in certain scenarios but I don't believe this one would.
What I do believe in is that this was an all out atrocious decision and those accounted for it to be made clear of their disregard for fact checking if that's even plausible and if not shown that their beliefs are not socially acceptable. I believe the developers under the umbrella of THQ do not represent the views expressed and they should not be punished for something they can not control. They should be judged separately as has been the case with things like Warhorse and Kingdom Come.
At the end of the day awareness is the best tool, because seeding thoughts and questioning opinions is how we better our community and how we better to understand those who are actually affected. As was seen in the last thread someone was victim to what goes on in 8ch and that is irreparable. They deserve support and care for the acts they experienced but it does not come from boycotting a range of gaming titles. It comes from showing who is behind the curtain and that they are not what the gaming community nor society are okay with.
What I do believe in is that this was an all out atrocious decision and those accounted for it to be made clear of their disregard for fact checking if that's even plausible and if not shown that their beliefs are not socially acceptable. I believe the developers under the umbrella of THQ do not represent the views expressed and they should not be punished for something they can not control. They should be judged separately as has been the case with things like Warhorse and Kingdom Come.
At the end of the day awareness is the best tool, because seeding thoughts and questioning opinions is how we better our community and how we better to understand those who are actually affected. As was seen in the last thread someone was victim to what goes on in 8ch and that is irreparable. They deserve support and care for the acts they experienced but it does not come from boycotting a range of gaming titles. It comes from showing who is behind the curtain and that they are not what the gaming community nor society are okay with.
8chan, least from what I recall from the things I've seen years ago, allows discussion of pedophilic desires, stories and so on, they actually forbid hosting real child pornography, however people tend to link dark net stuff that leads to the real deal that can stay up for awhile before it gets removed.
They're allowing THQ Nordic and their games to continue to be discussed because banning them would also bury the wrong they've done.
I agree with what was suggested previously in this thread; Every THQ Nordic thread made about them or one of their games on this site, regardless if it's simple news or a full-on OT of a game, should have them being pro-child porn edited into the title of the thread and a disclaimer put into the OP. We should not allow this company or its products to continue to be discussed and promoted without their stance being made clear every single time. It needs to be put right in the face of people, including the ones here who want to ignore it. That's why it needs to be in the thread title of every thread too, as a message in the OP will be quickly ignored.
I feel like this video might be weirdly relevant. In a way this might just be a fabricated marketing stunt in the opposite direction to the examples of this video that wanted to capitalize on the upset. From that perspective it feels like not giving THQ the buzz is the best option on the other hand it never feels good to just let it slide.
I won't be buying any THQn related items in the future, as well as making sure to alert anyone I know that is considering one of their games to what they have done. It isn't my responsibility to look out for the developers livelihood so I'm sure they will understand my decision to not support a company that, at the very least, signal boosted a website that has been de-listed from Google search for hosting and/or linking to child pornography, among other various heinous subjects.
And honestly, I'm still pretty astounded at how easy it was for the community at large to take that non-apology as a sincere effort. Though I guess at this point I really shouldn't be.
The whole industry has let me down time and time again with how little the interest it seems to have in doing anything to even try to combat the harassment and doxxing campaigns (that usually come from 8ch!!!) that happen in the industry against women, LGBTQ and other minorities. Or worse they are apathetic towards it or actively support it. Looking at you, Daniel Vávra, Mark Kern, etc.
The industry is so fractured, it can't even come together to have a unified message against vile acts and ideologies. When some people get laid off everyone and their mother is quick to offer their condolences for those affected, write articles (or post aggressively in forum threads, dozens of pages long) about how horribly evil and shitty Bobby Kotick and Activision are, and companies letting the people affected know they are hiring through Twitter posts. But this? Nary a peep from most places after the initial shock. Only a few people have even bothered to follow up where they can. (GI's Imran Khan for one)
Like, how god damned hard is it to repudiate participating on a message board that is well known for child pornography, coordinated harassment campaigns, doxxing and death threats?
And honestly, I'm still pretty astounded at how easy it was for the community at large to take that non-apology as a sincere effort. Though I guess at this point I really shouldn't be.
The whole industry has let me down time and time again with how little the interest it seems to have in doing anything to even try to combat the harassment and doxxing campaigns (that usually come from 8ch!!!) that happen in the industry against women, LGBTQ and other minorities. Or worse they are apathetic towards it or actively support it. Looking at you, Daniel Vávra, Mark Kern, etc.
The industry is so fractured, it can't even come together to have a unified message against vile acts and ideologies. When some people get laid off everyone and their mother is quick to offer their condolences for those affected, write articles (or post aggressively in forum threads, dozens of pages long) about how horribly evil and shitty Bobby Kotick and Activision are, and companies letting the people affected know they are hiring through Twitter posts. But this? Nary a peep from most places after the initial shock. Only a few people have even bothered to follow up where they can. (GI's Imran Khan for one)
Like, how god damned hard is it to repudiate participating on a message board that is well known for child pornography, coordinated harassment campaigns, doxxing and death threats?
thanks, that makes things so much easier
THQ Nordic has now been ignored on my Steam account
took like 30 seconds, highly recommended
They should put out a full apology and fire those involved in organising this. I still can't get my head around the fact that the guy responsible for their corporate image set this up. How can anyone in such a position be so monlithically incompetent? Regardless of the site involved he should be fired on the basis that he's shit at his job.
I 100% respect anyone who will now boycott all their games, however I'm not going to do that
In principle, I agree that boycotting is a good way of punishing them, but my issue is if everyone who is progressive and wants to see positive change in the industry immediately boycotts them forever, then where is their incentive to change and improve?
If they have lost a percentage of the market over this one move, then why not lean into the kind of people who don't have a problem with this kind of abhorrent behavior?
I'm not saying I'm going to 100% buy their games, this will make me consider any future purchases very carefully, and I may well opt to buy second hand if possible, but I think calling them out and keeping the discussion alive is more important than saying "fuck it, I'm done" and leaving it at that
They might try and rectify this and change and become a lot more progressive and inclusive off the back of this, but if everyone they have let down writes them off forever, then where is their incentive to improve?
Edit: A good start would be firing those responsible for the AMA fiasco
In principle, I agree that boycotting is a good way of punishing them, but my issue is if everyone who is progressive and wants to see positive change in the industry immediately boycotts them forever, then where is their incentive to change and improve?
If they have lost a percentage of the market over this one move, then why not lean into the kind of people who don't have a problem with this kind of abhorrent behavior?
I'm not saying I'm going to 100% buy their games, this will make me consider any future purchases very carefully, and I may well opt to buy second hand if possible, but I think calling them out and keeping the discussion alive is more important than saying "fuck it, I'm done" and leaving it at that
They might try and rectify this and change and become a lot more progressive and inclusive off the back of this, but if everyone they have let down writes them off forever, then where is their incentive to improve?
Edit: A good start would be firing those responsible for the AMA fiasco
So instead of reacting to what they did because that might "push them further right" or whatever we should just ignore it and tell them it's okay to post on a pedo boards? If you make a mistake and everybody is like "Whatever, I don't care here is my money" do you think you have more incentive to change?
People are boycotting them because they didn't react to this at all btw, if they had fired those two disgusting assholes the next day and put out a not-shitty statement nobody would care about this anymore.
Your first question is answered in the part of my post you decided not to quote:
No idea how you read the bolded as "we should just ignore it and tell them it's okay to post on a pedo boards?"
I also say I respect people who are boycotting them, so weird you decide to defend people who are boycotting them when I literally said that as my opening gambit
I also agreed they should fire those responsible, so your entire reply to me is really weird
Do you disagree with my point that we should keep calling them out and trying to hold them accountable too?
I know that doesn't sound very believable but I never heard the name 8Chan before. At least in Germany it isn't common knowledge. I know QAnon, The Donald on Reddit, Alex Jones, GamerGate but not 8Chan.
If you are involved in pedophilia that's the end of your political career in Germany. You must be really stupid to agree to an AMA on a site that promotes child pornography. You can only lose by doing that. I have no idea what those two THQ employees were thinking during the AMA. Probably not very much.
I followed your example. I am done with that company.
Now, let's see what happens. I really hope that in a week the people responsible for this will be fired. This is unacceptable, and it shouldn't be tolerated.
It's nice that you "respect people who are boycotting them" but I was reacting to your argument that "boycotting them actually leads to them going further into the other direction".
Calling them out while still buying their games is about as effective as putting a curse on them.
So your post basically is "Yeah, I agree we should do something and it's cool that some people will actually do something effective but I think it's also effective to keep giving them money as long as I acknowledge that they are horrible people every now and then on Twitter or whatever"
They knew exactly what they were doing. You don't accidentally host an AMA on 8chan.
They are banking on the controversy and that people will keep buying their games regardless, which they will
They wouldn't lean more to the far right on marketing, because to do so for AAA games is a terrible and dumb idea.
Besides, 8chan is a place that not even the dumbest of your GOP would want to be caught in.
I'm honestly going to be so shocked if no one is fired for this.
As for holding them accountable, I'm not really boycotting because I was never planning on buying any of their soon to be released games.
But I will mention that I've thought about boycotting CDPR games based on their fuck ups. In the end, I decided I would buy the game but I would also donate to a Trans rights organization. I feel it's a good way to not feel like I'm being dismissive of those hurt, but it also allows me to consume media I enjoy. I would do something similar if there were a THQN game I was looking forward to as well. I support those who boycott though.
As for holding them accountable, I'm not really boycotting because I was never planning on buying any of their soon to be released games.
But I will mention that I've thought about boycotting CDPR games based on their fuck ups. In the end, I decided I would buy the game but I would also donate to a Trans rights organization. I feel it's a good way to not feel like I'm being dismissive of those hurt, but it also allows me to consume media I enjoy. I would do something similar if there were a THQN game I was looking forward to as well. I support those who boycott though.
I understand that and this is the main reason why THQ is dead to me. But to be honest, even the "fictional" CP in this one AMA felt disgusting. I was just thinking out loud if and how THQ could be made accountable for something. If 8chan still provides links to real CP, than the site needs to go asap. But it all depends on where the site is hosted etc. It's not an easy thing to do.
I regret clicking on the link when the story went up. I didn't explorer other 8chan threads, that one was already telling enough. I'm sure some people over there are just "trolls" and they do it "for the lols" or to trigger the "left", or whatever. They don't even realize that they are being used as a shield for child abusers and racists to hide under. I'm even heaving trouble to express the distaste I'm feeling for 8chan and THQ. But I also know that this will ultimately lead to nothing, unless they violated an Austrian or European law and promoting a link to a thread with fictional CP is something that needs to be looked into imo.
Someone is going to get hurt no matter what. I'll sleep better knowing that my money isn't going to a company who are more than willing to associate themselves with this abhorrent shit
That is some sick shit. Any one on 8chan should be under federal surveillance.
Does 8chan actually actively promote real child porn? I had just kinda assumed that they were just a viler version of 4chan, IE allowing all kinds of drawn degeneracy but still banning the real deal.
Same part you missed first time, but now the bolded will change:
So again, not quite ""Yeah, I agree we should do something and it's cool that some people will actually do something effective but I think it's also effective to keep giving them money as long as I acknowledge that they are horrible people every now and then on Twitter or whatever"
You don't need to guess what I'm saying when I'm actually saying what I'm saying
Basically, look into the subject a little: https://www.theguardian.com/vital-signs/2015/jan/06/boycotts-shopping-protests-activists-consumers
If you throw them under a bus without the possibility you might change your stance as a consumer if they make positive change, then you'll hurt them short term and then not at all, and once the negative effects wear off, they'll have less incentive to try and get those they have lost back on board
I get this is an emotive subject, and I respect those who disagree with me, and those who do want to boycott them no matter what. I'm more concerned with generating actual change as opposed to knee jerk reactions to the situation
Unless every person involved in this nonsense is fired and THQ makes a real upfront and honest disowning of those people and the events then I am never touching anything under any of their umbrellas again. This is bullshit and Child Porn is a hard line that should be universal.
Here how it works. In 8chan you can talk about your pedophilic desires, tell fictional and nonfictional pedophilic stories, share images and video of 3D CGI child porn that looks close to real, pictures of naked children, and pictures and videos of semi-naked children in suggestive poses, but you can't post real hardcore child porn. That said, people sometimes still link dark net sites that leads to real child porn on the site and usually those links stay up for awhile until someone reports them or an admin notices it. They do the most minimum of due diligence to not break the law.
It's exactly "Yeah, I agree we should do something and it's cool that some people will actually do something effective but I think it's also effective to keep giving them money as long as I acknowledge that they are horrible people every now and then on Twitter or whatever" and I never guessed what you said, it's pretty clear what you meant.
And yeah, I will throw them under the bus. Supporting child pornography is not something I will tolerate. I don't give a fuck whether or not they react in a month or a year or a week. This is fucking child pornography man and if they only reason they react to this is "Oh no, our profits!" then they can go to hell.
The difference between you and me seems to be that I do not care whether they want me to "get back on board" or not. You don't immediately react to your PR promoting a site posting child porn, you are fucking out. But please, do tell me your obviously smarter way to "generate actual change".
There's a lot of hemming and hawwing here about whether or not illustrated drawings of children is bad enough. Then how about throwing in very real animal sexual abuse that is still hosted on the site right now into your considerations? My understanding is this isn't necessarily illegal in many places, but it IS also very illegal in a lot of places.
I'm pretty much not gonna give THQ Nordic GMBH any of my money. I am also less likely to give money to any other subsidiaries of THQ Nordic AB because of Reinhard Pollice benefiting from money given to the subsidiaries. I will consider buying things through Humble Bundle where 100% of the money can be given elsewhere instead. This of course is subject to change if people involved are fired or the company actually does something substantial to rectify this other than their completely unbelievable "oops" apology.
Edit: Apparently I can't spell when it's late
I'm pretty much not gonna give THQ Nordic GMBH any of my money. I am also less likely to give money to any other subsidiaries of THQ Nordic AB because of Reinhard Pollice benefiting from money given to the subsidiaries. I will consider buying things through Humble Bundle where 100% of the money can be given elsewhere instead. This of course is subject to change if people involved are fired or the company actually does something substantial to rectify this other than their completely unbelievable "oops" apology.
Edit: Apparently I can't spell when it's late
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I've never been a big fan of the whole "but what about the poor developers!!!" rhetoric when it comes to trying to shut down boycotts, but it's application here, in this particular situation involving child abuse and actual goddamn Nazis, is especially disgusting. If innocent people end up getting fired due to a potential boycott, the blame doesn't fall with you, but with the higher-ups at the company choosing to pass the buck on to the people lower on the totem poll who had nothing to do with this rather than actually addressing the problem that caused the boycott in the first place, which only makes the boycott more justified.
There is both drawing and non-drawing CP on the website, so that debate is unnecessary to have for the point at hand.
I'm going to do a boycott of THQ Nordic - I'm debating whether to extend that to Deep Silver at the moment mentally. My conditions for ending the boycott are the firings of all involved, since a faux apology won't do shit for me. Also, I will be less likely to buy games/consoles from companies that heavily partner with them.
I'm planning to contact investors, news outlets, games media, and anti-child pornography activists. Others should join in as well. International widespread condemnation is needed. DO NOT LET THIS BE FORGOTTEN.
Oh God, you weren't kidding. They literally have an entire board fill with bestiality porn. I'm gonna hurl.
I'm saying "we refuse to buy your products unless you fire those who instigated the AMA, and make a donation to a child abuse charity, and explain and accept responsibility for how you messed up. If you meet these demands we will drop the boycott" is more likely to work than "Fuck them, they're dead to me"
You can disagree all you like, but so far you've made 3 attempts to strawman me in a row so at this point I'd rather you just stop
I'm not saying you're wrong for wanting to boycott them, I even opened my first post with I respect people who take that position. I just personally would rather evoke positive change and I think we have a better chance of that by trying to hold them accountable than by throwing them under the bus
I can understand why people do want to cut all ties with them forever, but long term that has a lower chance of eliciting positive change in my opinion
Ugh, they post actual nude kids in suggestive poses? There's gotta be some kind of law that's breaking right?
If no one is fired soon they've totally lost me. Right now just seems their PR department is full of people who wouldn't mind buddying up with people who normalize child abuse, nazis, and homophobia. Their silence and inaction tells me "what we did is all good, sorry it offended you, now get over it and buy our games"
Is review bombing talk frowned upon here on ERA? As consumers we don't have many options and honestly it's been an effective way to get companies to listen to you, because it hits them where it hurts. Also generates its own coverage. Review bombing has a bad rep because idiots would rather review bomb things like Captain Marvel " she hates straight white males!".
If THQ is going to continue to do absolutely nothing, putting pressure on them this way could be a way to make them hear us.
Is review bombing talk frowned upon here on ERA? As consumers we don't have many options and honestly it's been an effective way to get companies to listen to you, because it hits them where it hurts. Also generates its own coverage. Review bombing has a bad rep because idiots would rather review bomb things like Captain Marvel " she hates straight white males!".
If THQ is going to continue to do absolutely nothing, putting pressure on them this way could be a way to make them hear us.
You can't keep saying "I'm not saying you are wrong" when you constantly use phrases like "I'd rather create ACTUAL change instead of some kneejerk reaction", so maybe just stop it.
And I say it again: If you need a fucking protest to come out strongly against child pornography you can go to fucking hell, I do not give a single shit about some forced "good will" reaction if/when they actually feel consequences. If "Well, after they saw that promoting child pornography is bad for the short term profits they did something they should have done immediately" is good enough for you, godspeed.
For me, I think the appropriate course of action would be:
-fire those involved immediately
-issue a clear apology and publicly denounce 8chan and all other CP, bigotry and alt-right nonsense
-make a significant (as in millions) donation to organisations which support victims of sexual abuse and sex trafficking
As for "the poor innocent devs", I don't care about their plight when compared to that of children being exploited. Hopefully they get the message and jump ship if nothing gets done. Otherwise? Fly with the crows, get shot with the crows.
-fire those involved immediately
-issue a clear apology and publicly denounce 8chan and all other CP, bigotry and alt-right nonsense
-make a significant (as in millions) donation to organisations which support victims of sexual abuse and sex trafficking
As for "the poor innocent devs", I don't care about their plight when compared to that of children being exploited. Hopefully they get the message and jump ship if nothing gets done. Otherwise? Fly with the crows, get shot with the crows.
Semi-nude children. You know, bathing suits, trunks, underwear, that sorta thing, in poses that are suggestive, however their argument is that they're not suggestive at all but "playful". It's a gray area because then you could say parents taking pictures of their children on the beach can be considered creation of child pornography. In fact, some of these images and videos came from families that just posted their family pictures and stuff on social media and these perverts decide to sexualize it.
The pictures of nude children are considered legal, as they are not sexualized and/or are considered artistic. Think of medical books, baby pictures, photographs from famous artists in the early 20th century, that sorta thing.
Again, they lean into the bare minimum of legal here, at least under American law.
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I'll say it again: Fuck THQ.
It's not hard to just ignore anything they put out, so I'll gladly do just that. I've skipped games for far less than the vile shit THQ chose to associate their brand with.
It's not hard to just ignore anything they put out, so I'll gladly do just that. I've skipped games for far less than the vile shit THQ chose to associate their brand with.
So what do you actually want? The company to go under? To no longer exist? Do you think your boycott will make that difference?
Your boycott is about you feeling good about yourself for no longer supporting a company you don't agree with, but as the previous source I quoted, and pretty much everything else on the subject, points out, a boycott alone does not make a company change policy
https://www.rewire.org/our-future/boycotts-actually-work/
So what are you hoping for? The outright destruction of THQ Nordic? Other than your boycott how are you going about realising this goal?
Personally I would rather they accept responsibility for what they have done, refuse to do anything like that ever again, and make a gesture that acknowledges the harm they have done
I have no idea what you want, I have no idea what positive change you want, or how just boycotting them as a single gesture goes about this
It shows how much society has failed when people resort to kiddy and animal porn to cope with their problems.
By putting em all a year or so in jail.
(The people involved with it)
Gotta give harsh punishment imo.
That or being fired from the board as in their job.
(The people involved with it)
Gotta give harsh punishment imo.
That or being fired from the board as in their job.