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Jssom

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
470
So the latest NPD results got me thinking, 5 months after the release of new consoles I really thought by now XBox Series would be outselling PS5 a month or two of those, the reason for that is USA is XBox's biggest market, and from history the XBox One in December 2013 outsold the PS4 even with the whole DRM fiasco and negative PR with a higher price point. It also seems PS5 is not just barely edging the XB Series with sales, the signs shows that there is a decent gap between the sales of the two.

And if you go outside USA it's obvious that worldwide in all markets (including UK, the second most important market for XBox) PS5 is selling more, to the point that I have read analysis that it's 2:1 in favor to the PlayStation and that launch aligned XB Series consoles are selling less than XB One.

Now people are saying "Sony and Microsoft can only sell what they can manufacture" referring to the fact that these new consoles are being soldout immediately after any new stock arrives, which leads me to my question. What are the circumstances that led for Sony to manufacture more PS5's than XB Series consoles? And why did Microsoft allowed them to? People used (They were late on manufacturing because of full RDNA 2) as an excuse, well was it worth it if you are allowing the competition to outsell you 2:1 the beginning of the generation?

I write this thread also in part because I remember hearing "concerns" when Sony revealed the specs of their console and how they are overclocking their GPU, and the reports from Bloomberg that they are cutting the shipments of the PS5, all these lead to speculations that Sony would be having trouble manufacturing their consoles and Microsoft will seize the opportunity of Sony's woes. The reality turned out very different to some people's in head scenarios.

I end my topic with couple more questions from someone who know a little of the hardware making process:

Is there something with the way the PS5 is designed that makes it able to bypass the chips shortage problem a little better than XB Series can do?

Does Sony have better contracts with the console parts manufactures (Including the chips manufactures) that gives them the advantage to make more PS5s?

or was it from the beginning Microsoft knew they couldn't compete with Sony on the hardware sales front specially with no new next gen releases from their 1st party studios to sell these consoles?

Thoughts?
 

Phawx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
365
MS is selling two consoles. So it's split between two units instead of one. (I should preface this with the belief that Series X and Series S are two different skus)
 

Rosebud

Two Pieces
Member
Apr 16, 2018
43,597
Sony was probably expecting to sell more. Remember their own predictions before the gen?
 

tok9

Prophet of Truth
Member
Nov 2, 2017
1,995
Very vague comment here but didn't Sony begin production before the Series console? I thought this was one of the things mentioned which would at least give some explanation why they had more.

But also I imagine there is just a lot of deals and contracts involved regarding targets etc
 

platocplx

2020 Member Elect
Member
Oct 30, 2017
36,072
Sony started manufacturing as early as end of May based on console manufacturing dates. I think Xbox wasn't until august and with the pandemic, part shortages etc that late manufacturing cost them some early units.
 

OCD Guy

Member
Nov 2, 2017
985
What do manufacturing numbers of PS5 vs Xbox series look like?

I mean X and S. I can't see the numbers being too different.

You need to compare it as a whole. If you took the digital PS5 in isolation I'd say the manufacturing numbers are tiny (relatively speaking), certainly smaller than either Xbox series.
 

JimD

Member
Aug 17, 2018
3,503
Very vague comment here but didn't Sony begin production before the Series console? I thought this was one of the things mentioned which would at least give some explanation why they had more.

But also I imagine there is just a lot of deals and contracts involved regarding targets etc

Yeah, Microsoft has already talked about getting a late start.
 

GamingCJ

Member
Apr 14, 2019
1,907
MS is selling two consoles. So it's split between two units instead of one. (I should preface this with the belief that Series X and Series S are two different skus)
But numbers always combine Series X and S, so that doesn't really answer OP's question.

I think it's mainly expected lower demand for Xbox Series. Also neither Sony nor MS knew that Covid drag so fucking long.

Edit:
I don't think Xbox' supposed slightly later production start in summer 2020 explains the stock difference in March 2021.
 

seykoTiVi

Member
Oct 29, 2020
6
User Banned (1 Week) - Platform Warring & Account in Junior Phase
Not everyone is interested in a pure emulation box of old gen games with better performance, that's what the XSX/XSS are right now...
 

zombiejames

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,934
Without taking into consideration any other parts that may or may not be constrained, Sony's SOC is physically smaller than what MS has for the XSX. That means Sony can manufacture more systems per wafer than MS can.
 

Hurting Bomb

Member
Oct 28, 2017
932
User banned (5 days): Console war rhetoric; similar related bans for the same behavior
Sony's is older gear so more available.
 

Jade1962

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,259
The real answer is your last point OP. MS estimated how much they thought they could sell in the launch window and Sony did the same. Then they ordered "x" amount of units to be manufactured.
 

cw_sasuke

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,401
Sony planned for much more demand from the start their goal was to outperform PS4s launch. MS couldn't be this bullish, especially with Halo missing the launch.
 

YaBish

Unshakable Resolve - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,341
MS has two skus which would impact production.

Also Sony's sales of the PS4 probably lead the manufacturers to prioritize a much larger order for the PS5.
 

werezompire

Zeboyd Games
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
11,377
I know in Merida, Mexico, the Series S is rather easy to find in stores so I'm guessing it's not selling out (at least not here, I can't speak to other regions). On the other hand, I've never seen a Series X & I've only seen PS5s in a store once.
 

JhOnNY_HD

Member
Dec 13, 2020
831
PS5 factory's are designed to work nearly full automatic.

If I remember right can produce a console in less than a minute
 

bsigg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,556
Xbox is split between 3 different production lines, Xbox Series X, Xbox Series S and Xbox Series X SoCs for Azure.
 

GamingCJ

Member
Apr 14, 2019
1,907
Its pretty simple, Sony are paying a lot of money to get roughly double the Silicon that Xbox are getting. https://www.hardwaretimes.com/in-q4...ssors-limiting-zen-3-and-big-navi-production/

We don't know all the historical data, but for Q4 of last year Sony bought 80k wafers from AMD to produce their consoles while xbox only bought 40k. I expect that ratio is continuing.
I guess that's the answer.

You know if/when we might get those numbers for Q1?
 

Renna Hazel

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,579
User Banned (3 Days) - Platform Warring
Not everyone is interested in a pure emulation box of old gen games with better performance, that's what the XSX/XSS are right now...
This is the answer. Despite what people here have been saying, Sony's messaging of a next gen experience is much more appealing to the mass market over running current gen games in 4K (which the One X was also marketed to do).

PS5 is just the much more desireable product, and so Sony can order many more of them.
 

Maple

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,732
Didn't Sony simply place more orders for the PS5 than Microsoft did for the Series X|S?
 

JimD

Member
Aug 17, 2018
3,503
Phil Spencer from an interview with The Verge:

We started manufacturing late summer. We were a little bit later than the competition, because we were waiting for some specific AMD technology in our chip. We were a little bit behind where they were, where Sony was, in terms of building units. We started in late summer.

https://www.theverge.com/21611412/m...nterview-xbox-series-x-launch-decoder-podcast

The Series X is still sold out everywhere, so clearly they haven't been able to make up any of that gap yet.
 

shanew21

Member
Nov 7, 2017
516
Do the NPD numbers count the Series S and X as the same console? The comparisons will always be a bit skewed if not (I believe the digital PS5 still counts as a "PS5").

Aside from that, yes, Sony had more time because they didn't implement as many RDNA2 features into their GPU and they're only making one chip.
 

Expy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,865
Microsoft started later, has a bigger overall chip with the Series X, and likely still has less available wafer allocation.

Bigger cheap means more likely to get poorer yields -- Series S is smaller, but MS has to allocate wafers to either Series X die production OR Series S die production at the start of the process, so demand needs to be estimated before the chips are fabricated for Xbox. PlayStation doesn't have that problem, as the difference between the digital and physical PS5 is post-chip-fabrication and mostly aesthetic.
 
Oct 25, 2017
32,298
Atlanta GA
Xbox started manufacturing later, so they got hit harder by the pandemic and chip shortage. Sony for the time being is in a place where they can buy more and produce more, its easier to produce more of their chipset.

I don't necessarily think it's a huge issue for MS or anything, they are still selling a lot of consoles and will sell more and more as their software lineup takes shape. The overall demand is lighter than PS5 so if they were to ship too many consoles they'd risk sitting on inventory. They're in a good place right now for this point in the gen I think.
 

Dyle

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
29,944
It's my understanding Sony planned to start production earlier from the start and that put them in a better position to handle both the pandemic and the chip shortage. The fact that Xbox has to make two fundamentally different devices rather than two fundamentally similar device probably plays a role too.
 

Xevross

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,048
I guess that's the answer.

You know if/when we might get those numbers for Q1?
I'm not sure that is information which is supposed to be regularly available, so probably never.

Do the NPD numbers count the Series S and X as the same console? The comparisons will always be a bit skewed if not (I believe the digital PS5 still counts as a "PS5").

Aside from that, yes, Sony had more time because they didn't implement as many RDNA2 features into their GPU and they're only making one chip.
Yes, every sales tracker is combining the consoles together.
 

Ferrs

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
18,829
This is the answer. Despite what people here have been saying, Sony's messaging of a next gen experience is much more appealing to the mass market over running current gen games in 4K (which the One X was also marketed to do).

PS5 is just the much more desireable product, and so Sony can order many more of them.

This is not the answer when the Series X is constantly out of stock.

The real answer has been said here, Sony can produce more PS5 due to the SoC and wafers paid.
 

Deleted member 23046

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
6,876

shadow2810

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,245
This is the answer. Despite what people here have been saying, Sony's messaging of a next gen experience is much more appealing to the mass market over running current gen games in 4K (which the One X was also marketed to do).

PS5 is just the much more desireable product, and so Sony can order many more of them.
clearly manufacturers are refusing to accept money from MS/produce more xbox series because they are less desirable products

what?
 

NewDust

Visited by Knack
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,596
I'm expecting Microsoft not only started later with chip production, but with prices where already inflating back then, they probably also ordered lower amounts (exacerbated due two different designs), hoping prices would go down earlier and silicon supply wasn't so constrained.

Pure speculation, but I wouldn't be surprised.
 

Portodutch

Member
Feb 17, 2021
7,125
Microsoft waited for more RDNA2 features to be ready before starting to manufacture their systems.

That would be true for the launch allocation but that would be sold out within a month for both.
For January/February/March they sold what they could produce without building up stock and Sony does seem to produce and sell more in those months.
But we did have reports that Sony ordered more wafers then Microsoft coupled with the fact that Microsoft needs to make 2 different consoles meaning more different parts and its no suprise Sony are able to manufacture more.
 

Rosebud

Two Pieces
Member
Apr 16, 2018
43,597
clearly manufacturers are refusing to accept money from MS/produce more xbox series because they are less desirable products

what?

MS don't want stock at shelves, so they are ordering accordingly to their internal predictions just like Sony.

Edit for clarity: too much stock with the risk of not selling.
 
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Djalminha

Alt-Account
Banned
Sep 22, 2020
2,103
The real answer is your last point OP. MS estimated how much they thought they could sell in the launch window and Sony did the same. Then they ordered "x" amount of units to be manufactured.
If this is true, they both did a terrible job with their estimations. It doesn't make sense to me though, they both clearly could sell consoles way faster if they could meet demand, they are clearly unable to produce as fast as they want to.
 

CelestialAtom

Mambo Number PS5
Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,049
It probably helps that Sony's console manufacturing is completely automated. I don't believe MS is completely automated, but I could be wrong.
 

Jade1962

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,259
Phil Spencer from an interview with The Verge:



https://www.theverge.com/21611412/m...nterview-xbox-series-x-launch-decoder-podcast

The Series X is still sold out everywhere, so clearly they haven't been able to make up any of that gap yet.

This only has to do with intitial production. We know Sony is still ordering wafers at a 2:1 rate compared to MS. Even if they started at the same time there would still be more PS5s available. It was a good sound bite that everyone has latched onto though to answer this question.
 
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Ferrs

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
18,829
MS don't want stock at shelves, so they are ordering accordingly to their internal predictions just like Sony.

That doesnt make any sense. An XBox that is not in the shelve is a potential loss of money. MS rather have Xbox in the shelves sitting than having nothing when someone looks for one.
 

StudioTan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,836
That would be true for the launch allocation but that would be sold out within a month for both.
For January/February/March they sold what they could produce without building up stock and Sony does seem to produce and sell more in those months.
But we did have reports that Sony ordered more wafers then Microsoft coupled with the fact that Microsoft needs to make 2 different consoles meaning more different parts and its no suprise Sony are able to manufacture more.
Why would Sony start production in May if it only takes 2 months to make enough stock for an entire month?