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Abominuz

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,550
Netherlands
Maybe think about something happening to the earth's sun, that a super villain shields it or our sun is dimmed. Or maybe let it take place on another planet.
There are a couple of option that reduce superman's power. And isn't he weak to magic also ?
 

SageShinigami

Member
Oct 27, 2017
30,459
N52 Action Comics had the answer. He started out around Golden Age power levels then gradually powered up. Cross that with how they set the game up for Batman in Arkham City, where as you progressed there were more and more powerful foes (first it was a gang of goons, then those goons had weapons, then finally those goons had machine guns) and you're good. The bosses have never been a problem--the list of villains with superpowers on his level isn't a short one, you're not going to run out.

Then you can even get clever with dream-like stages for Mxy or challenge stages from Toyman. The only real problem is creating believable mooks, but Intergang can solve that. If I made a sequel I'd probably just leave Earth. Do a game on Warworld, then one on New Krypton where everyone has your strength but none of them have your skill.
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,151
United Kingdom
I've never bought that a Superman game is particularly hard to do.

You look at the actual comics and the same solutions to "how to make a Superman comic interesting" are the exact same elements you'd want to take to make a Superman game interesting.

Superman is like an invincible god. Good! In the comics, when the Kryptonite crutch isn't being used, the challenges he faces are ones of races against time, saving people against impossible odds and fighting enemies that are as much physically as formidable as Superman as they are intellectually. The challenges that should beset Superman in a game should be those that present the player with a series of situations and circumstances that require them to use their brain as much as their in-game brawn, situations that force the player to make a choice of which Superman ability to use in order to save one person, a group or everyone (with increasing difficulty). He should be presented with situations that require Superman to be at two places at once—when taken at face value—in order to save the day, where more thoughtful and analytically minded players will deduce how to use the tools at their disposal to actually save everyone.

A narrative-driven game with branching story paths based on which people you save and which criminals get away, would make the game far more interesting that an over-focus on combat design.

Even in terms of combat design, the goal should be making a game where an invincible Superman has to face-off against sometimes invincible foes, where the goal of the player isn't to whittle down an enemies health bar alone, rather it could be to dual an enemy into a series of traps to capture/immobilize them while on a timer. Combat design akin to the first Soul Reaver game would make for a very interesting departure from gaming norms, then add in a timer to up the tension, together with a branching storyline (as opposed to "time runs out = fail state"), could make for some really high octane and compelling gameplay.

It's only hard to make a Superman game if the prevailing focus of your game is combat. Superman, however, unlike Goku from DBZ, isn't a thug who spend all his time fighting. And even with his godlike powers, he often needs the help of his super-powered contemporaries for the sole fact that he cannot be everywhere at once. As a game designer, that's what you'd need to capitalize on.
 

Omitat

Member
Oct 31, 2017
15
Odd timing, but, that site (4chan) has brought the Rocksteady Superman rumor back (along with the old 'leaked' photo) and are saying it will be on the cover of Game Informer.

Some of the thread is trash but there are some interesting ideas for a Supes game in there.
 

est1992

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,180
Odd timing, but, that site (4chan) has brought the Rocksteady Superman rumor back (along with the old 'leaked' photo) and are saying it will be on the cover of Game Informer.

Some of the thread is trash but there are some interesting ideas for a Supes game in there.
Rocksteady has been quite active on their twitter lately. For the past month they've been posting nothing but concept art from the Arkham series. Maybe they're teasing some sort of announcement? WB has nothing left after LEGO Marvel Superheroes 2 and that launches in like ten days
 

AzzX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15
Just saw the Rocksteady rumor, hopefully it is true.

Superman's greatest weakness isn't Kryptonite, its his humanity. In the best comics and animations, its the thing Lex uses against him consistently to great effect.

In the potential game I would love the following scenario and themes:
  • Roleplaying as Clark Kent in a similar vein as LA Noir though as a Daily Planet reporter.
  • Situations where revealing your identity can alter the outcome of a game - do you choose to use your superpowers while as Clark Kent in view of the public?
  • Changing into Superman allows you to leave the planet - please yes!
  • An almost impossible to defeat foe aka Darksied when the real villain has been in plain sight and is completely non super-powered.
Please don't make Superman completely joyless like the recent movies and Lex Luthor is a sociopathic genius not a psychotic nutter.
 
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Watershed

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,810
I like the idea of starting with a young Clark Kent who hasn't matured into all his powers yet.

The game should start in Smallville which should be a self-contained open world ala a larger version of the Great Plateau from BOTW. The world beyond already exists and you can see it but can't go out into it yet. Instead you progress the story in Smallville which gives Superman his powers 1 at a time.

Once you have all your powers powered up you leave Smallville by flying away which opens up the rest of the world including Metropolis. It wouldn't be a whole planet of course. Eventually, towards the end game you fly to outer space and fight the final boss on the moon.
 

TheMadTitan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
27,208
The solution is to just build the damn game.

Don't try to come up with some dumbass copout to explain his power levels, just let the game establish that his power levels are his power levels. Perfect example is how Superman:TAS and Justice League toned down his powers without any shitty explanations. Hulk: Ultimate Destruction did the same thing; they didn't have to rationalize in-game why guys with machine guns could whittle away Hulk's health, they just did it. Guys with guns shot at Hulk, it did damage, his character no sold the damage he took until he started to get hit with explosives, tanks, helicopters, and robots.

The solution for Superman is to do the same. Random guys with guns and regular humans do negligible damage and the character doesn't react --perfect for small crimes and whatnot-- and then ramp it up as he fights metahumans with decent power sets, enemies with some degree of super strength, robots, aliens, and whatnot.

Compensate for the fact that Superman is hard to damage by making him fight enemy swarms --Hulk: UD an Prototype did this well-- and then of course, mini-boss and boss enemies would be able to kick his ass solo, and having to fight multiple boss level characters would of course be hard.

Standard model of all powers unlocked from the start while still having the character level up should apply. You could rationalize it as Superman holding back less and less as the game goes on as super breath or heat vision are leveled up to do more damage and greater dps, or you could just not rationalize it because it's a video game.

Do a hybrid of open world and linear level design, with linear levels being things like Toyman's little whatever, Warworld, the Phantom Zone, and so on, and then come up with a plot that would prompt everything from regular guys to low to mid metahumans to team up to fight Superman along with random crimes and whatnot. Some sort of random enemy power mechanic should be involved so you won't just roll up to a bank and be like "oh, these red color dudes all can teleport", gotta have some surprise.

Vision powers would be the detective mode, hearing would act as an excuse for a map/radar/quest marker, and so on. Combat would be some sort of Hulk/Prototype/Bayonetta hybrid because Superman should be more than capable of transitioning from ground to air combat and back within the same combos. Regular human enemies would have their own attack animations where Supes does casual grabs and smacks because he's not going to haul ass and uppercut people to the stratosphere if they can't take it.

Other than this, standard superhero/action game fare should apply.

Superman games fail when they try to do the "he's invincible, so we got to build the game around that" or the "this character is too powerful, so we have to make a plot excuse why they're not in game and then wait until the final boss fight for them to be at full power." Superman isn't invincible; hit him hard enough and you will break his jaw. Hit him with magic and he'll stagger. Hit him with electricity and he'd writhe and scream in pain. these are all things enemies could be based around, and that's without Kryptonite.

Everything else, from Clark Kent segments, trips to the Fortress of Solitude, and so on aren't necessary. As long as the game is built first and power levels are reigned in in respect to those rather than building the game and narrative around power levels, you can't go wrong. You don't need a depowered Superman, a young Superman, an invincible Superman with the city as his health bar, you need the game first There's a reason why the best Superman game, even if it's still average as all get the hell out, didn't focus on any of that. They just built a game and stuck Superman in it.
 

bunkitz

Brave Little Spark
Moderator
Oct 28, 2017
13,515
Having a young/er Clark Kent section would be fine, but to have the premise of the game be playing as a young, inexperienced Clark Kent/Superman would be wrong in my opinion. The Arkham games are so successful because they fulfill the power fantasy of being Batman, it lets the players be Batman. So Superman shouldn't be crippled in any way, be it fighting in a magical plane or under a Red Sun, with Kryptonite, younger days, etc. Players should feel like they are Superman. Near invulnerability, s-curl and all.

As others have said, the goal should be to create a challenge around his nearly invulnerable status, and his mission to save/protect as much people as he can. The "city life bar" idea sounds good, although that gives me the image of Superman actually dying alongside the city as opposed to just a game over screen, but I digress. Stopping robberies and catching crashing cars and the like should be easily doable for the players as these are things Superman can easily handle. It becomes difficult when these happen simultaneously or whilst a supervillain on his level is attacking the city or a loved one elsewhere.

There should be no need for a combat system like Arkham's where he fights wave after wave of enemies. The core of the combat should be against his rogues gallery like Zod, Toy Man, Eradicator, Mxyzptlk, etc. Each could require different approaches such as something more cerebral like a puzzle for the intellectual types, kind of like Mad Hatter's and Scarecrows nightmare world things in the Arkham games, whereas Doomsday and the like would be a proper brawl. Most of these could be time-sensitive as well, requiring Superman to subdue his opponent in time to save civillians trapped under a building or require restraint from the players part to not simply level the city. *cough* Man of Steel *cough*

At the same time, there should definitely be Clark Kent sections that require the player to come up with A+ excuses that Perry will believe. Jokes aside, a Clark Kent section could be a lot of fun. I can imagine it kind of playing out like a Telltale or Quantic Dream game, requiring players to make all sorts of quick decisions to hide your identity or secretly stop some gunman holding people at the Daily Planet hostage, etc.
 

gosublime

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,429
I'd be curious to see a Superman game where combat isn't the challenge, but time management. As in, you can only be one place at a time, and the more crime/conflict you let happen in an area, the more involved tasks can flare up. In a weird way, it would end up having the structure of something like a Diner Dash game, just with totally different presentation.

This is what I've always thought, but in my mind it's more like The Sims. Superman has some main focuses - fighting crime, romancing Lois, keeping his job at the Planet, essential things (eating, sleeping) and preparing himself for more difficult fights - but he can't be everywhere. So he might be on a date with Lois and hear a mugging - does he ditch Lois or just let it happen? It could also start with him as young Superman to give a sense of progression.
 

Snormy

I'll think about it
On Break
Oct 25, 2017
5,114
Morizora's Forest
  • Outside of Kryptonite Superman is virtually invincible so the fail states should not be defeat from combat
  • Focus on protecting civilians, limiting destruction whilst defeating baddies.
  • Have some kind of dilemma, perhaps magic focused where he can't solve simply by throwing his fists at it.
  • Assuming Magic based Armageddon is, say 7 days away. You can have superman do investigitive work to try and find solutions. Also maybe Clark segments that allows you to play with more limited powers.
  • Setup like Majora's Mask. Rather than having a final showdown on the 7th day where near global destruction occurs despite your victory you repeat the process trying to obtain maximum survival. Maybe even requiring working with people like Lex and having other Justice League allies help out.
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,316
Let you actually be Superman.... In that I mean don't make up mechanics for why he's weakened or make up Krytopnite infused bad guys.... Just actually get to be the neigh invulnerable dude going through an engaging single player campaign...

Make it open world so you can just fuck around as Superman.
 

TheMirai

Member
Oct 28, 2017
151
The solution is to just build the damn game.

Don't try to come up with some dumbass copout to explain his power levels, just let the game establish that his power levels are his power levels. Perfect example is how Superman:TAS and Justice League toned down his powers without any shitty explanations. Hulk: Ultimate Destruction did the same thing; they didn't have to rationalize in-game why guys with machine guns could whittle away Hulk's health, they just did it. Guys with guns shot at Hulk, it did damage, his character no sold the damage he took until he started to get hit with explosives, tanks, helicopters, and robots.
This is basically my thoughts as well. The comics have often had Superman getting whittled down or just being at lower level (the big Dark Knight fight starts with Bats testing how 'together' Superman is after the nuke) and you just go with it. We know it's malleable. If bullets chip away at his health we won't ask, it'll just be, "Oh, fine."

I'm never going to get into game design so I'm going to out my big secret for making a Superman or Superman-knockoff game -- have a morality system. No wait, come back, I promise it'll be good!

It's not actually "good/evil" as much as "nice/mean", and as you push the morality towards "nice", Metropolis gets more realistic and modern and sparkly, and really looks like a Jim Lee drawing come to life. But if you go "mean," instead it starts to go super-retro and 60s, with dot-matrix coloring on buildings and objects and Superman's voice starts to sound old-timey, and all the characters look goofier and older.

Big morality decisions would end with comic covers punctuating the chapter -- be nice, and the comic is Superman catching Lois Lane falling and they're all affectionate towards each other, or Jimmy Olsen gets caught and he's like, "Thanks, Superman!" But if you go "mean", instead it's Superman walking off with Lana Lang while Lois is falling into a pit, and he's all "Sorry, Lois, I can't save you, I have a date!!" or Jimmy getting attacked by a mugger and Superman's like "You gotta take care of yourself sometime, Jimmy!" If you want an example of the former, look at any comic today -- if you want the latter, superdickery.com.

If you go "mean", the next chapter happens and literally zero has happened that's different, because old timey Superman comics.

I figure this way you can do Superman things in the open world like rescue citizens and pet kittens and catch burglars, and get an effect out of it, or go the complete other way and pick up innocents and chuck them into the sun, and there's a wink-and-nod system where you should be a good dude...but I mean, c'mon, you don't have to, and if you don't, don't worry, we don't care either.
 

tgrfawcett

Member
Oct 25, 2017
730
Utah
This is basically my thoughts as well. The comics have often had Superman getting whittled down or just being at lower level (the big Dark Knight fight starts with Bats testing how 'together' Superman is after the nuke) and you just go with it. We know it's malleable. If bullets chip away at his health we won't ask, it'll just be, "Oh, fine.

I think that given popular culture people might ask why. Superman is invincible that is his thing, however, one thing that may be used is that Superman does get tired. He can't take damage but he can in time become exhausted and go down. Maybe a throwaway line like that where Superman just gets beat down so much that he can't keep fighting. I don't know, Superman has such an immense powerset it will be a balance to keep him from being to OP while still having a challenge.
 

KalBalboa

Member
Oct 30, 2017
7,930
Massachusetts
I say this every time a Superman game discussion comes around:

Just don't have a Greek god tier Superman.
Go with Superman: The Animated Series, Smallville, Birthright, or any other number of popular incarnations where Superman's mortality is more in line with, say, Captain America or the Hulk. Make him able to lift cars up, fly past the speed of sound, and maybe take a tank shell and not die, but we really don't need to go Man of Steel or Superman Returns with his power set.
 

Crayon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,580
Needs a Clark Kent aspect. Not blowing his cover was always the most interesting part of Superman's grind. That and making agonizing decisions about who or what needs to be saved more.

So a good Superman game would need to have tough decisions about when and how to use the god like power.
 
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JonnyDBrit

God and Anime
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,016
...So another game comparison that's somewhat come to mind for me, thinking on possible templates from other games, is Uncharted of all things. Particularly from 2 onwards, being narrative heavy, 'cinematic' game that while fairly linear, are structured - particularly doing climbing and chase sequences - to feel tightly scripted even in gameplay. Like, I can easily see how one might translate one of those aforementioned chase sequences into Clark trying to slip past some drones ala his first outing in Superman: Birthright, in order to get changed into Superman. Plus one could build set pieces and levels to specifically both show off and test Superman's powers, rather than have to worry about a consistent system through an open world.
 

Medalion

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,203
I long wait for a definitive not just good, but truly great, and fully fleshed out game for Superman... the kind that makes you learn and love Superman and are proud to be playing as him.... even if you are not a Superman fan... how this is done, I have no fucking clue