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How did the world get to this point?
- Thread starter Typhon
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Ever before? We're less than a century removed from the worst war the world has ever seen. Over 60 million people died. Germany controlled 90% of Europe. Their biggest opponent was a state (almost) just as oppressive and violent as their own name who ended up controlling all of Eastern Europe.
Pretty much everyone you mentioned is a pale imitation in terms of the power they've been able to obtain compared to their predecessors. Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Mussolini and Imperial Japan were responsible for the deaths of well over a hundred million people due to their policies. And that's before we even get to the traditional colonialist powers still in operation in the 30s/40s.
Pretty much everyone you mentioned is a pale imitation in terms of the power they've been able to obtain compared to their predecessors. Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Mussolini and Imperial Japan were responsible for the deaths of well over a hundred million people due to their policies. And that's before we even get to the traditional colonialist powers still in operation in the 30s/40s.
we stayed in the wilderness too long
remember in '08 when some of y'all wanted to call america post-racial? good times
really, it's this - as an anti fascist, it's the nature of the game. fascists largely crawled back into the woodwork
then we watched the right continue down their anti-intellectual trend, while simultaneously watching gamergate & MRA's, where lonely white dudes online set the stage for trendy white nationalism
the GOP lost control a while back, and lamented the lack of traditional dog whistles - trump did away with that, and a vague mess of anti "PC"/"SJW" etc shit was allowed a platform
and we allow it - co-opting of colin/NFL demonstrations, full-on white supremacists in the white house (and all that brings), watching puerto rico burn the bodies while a crony company badmouths their largest city's mayor online...but let's talk more about other things
"go back to bed, america, your government is in control. here's 56 channels of american gladiator."
remember in '08 when some of y'all wanted to call america post-racial? good times
really, it's this - as an anti fascist, it's the nature of the game. fascists largely crawled back into the woodwork
then we watched the right continue down their anti-intellectual trend, while simultaneously watching gamergate & MRA's, where lonely white dudes online set the stage for trendy white nationalism
the GOP lost control a while back, and lamented the lack of traditional dog whistles - trump did away with that, and a vague mess of anti "PC"/"SJW" etc shit was allowed a platform
and we allow it - co-opting of colin/NFL demonstrations, full-on white supremacists in the white house (and all that brings), watching puerto rico burn the bodies while a crony company badmouths their largest city's mayor online...but let's talk more about other things
"go back to bed, america, your government is in control. here's 56 channels of american gladiator."
As stated above. It's always been like this. I'm from a part of the Netherlands with a lot of small villages (+/- 4000 people per village) and even those can't agree with each other on a lot of issues just because they're from a different village. So yea it was only a matter of time before fascisme would me back on the world stage.
For some countries, this is actually the norm, and has been for decades, centuries, and more.
We're just noticing this now because it's happening in the US.
We're just noticing this now because it's happening in the US.
No matter what, we just have to keep pushing back. There's no point in staying quiet when nationalists and fascists are shouting so loudly.
The world has actually been pretty shitty in terms of life conditions for most of the world's history (at least post-hunters & gatherers age).
Maybe it's a weird opinion, but I don't think we developed THAT much on a social and intelligent level. Still a lot of racism, hate and discrimination in the world.
Wars and stuff will sadly always be part of life as long we're living in a capitalist world (and probably also in a different system, part of the problem is human nature I think). It's just you see/hear way more negative stuff thanks to (social) media. Even though the world is still shitty in a lot of ways and getting worse in some (the power of companies, surveillance state), it's also slowly getting better in other ways (slavery is banned in a lot of places, women can vote in a lot of places, there's more attention to nature/climate).
Maybe it's a weird opinion, but I don't think we developed THAT much on a social and intelligent level. Still a lot of racism, hate and discrimination in the world.
Wars and stuff will sadly always be part of life as long we're living in a capitalist world (and probably also in a different system, part of the problem is human nature I think). It's just you see/hear way more negative stuff thanks to (social) media. Even though the world is still shitty in a lot of ways and getting worse in some (the power of companies, surveillance state), it's also slowly getting better in other ways (slavery is banned in a lot of places, women can vote in a lot of places, there's more attention to nature/climate).
The internet allows us to tell each other of the horrible things going on in our neck of the woods almost instantaneously. It was easy to pretend that life was swell, or boring, or even always terrible when news had to travel on foot, by car, by mail, or be relayed to someone who then relayed it to us. Now its just a tweet and we all see it.
Research actually shows we are living in the most peaceful time in all of human history...
https://ourworldindata.org/slides/war-and-violence/#/title-slide
https://www.good.is/articles/closer-to-peace-than-ever
https://ourworldindata.org/slides/war-and-violence/#/title-slide
https://www.good.is/articles/closer-to-peace-than-ever
Poverty is also globally declining, even though the divide between the rich and poor is bigger than ever (I'm not sure if this should matter, at least until conditions are progressing for all).
The thing is, even if one can certainly look at history far and nearer as a repetition of cycles (although this is kind of simplistic), on the smaller scale there has been in fact a surge of nationalism in the west. I cannot speak for most countries, but in mine and neighbouring nations in the EU there has definitely been a shift from the left vs. right in terms of whom do lower-income worker families find socially and politically reassuring, which is grossly speaking a role previously fitted by the left in the last century, having moved it onto newer, globalistic and elitist battles that don't really interest the masses much (by good reason).
Yep.
People always want to think they are living in the "Worse times!"..
Powerful people have always existed and been shitty.
And, to be honest, the world gets better and better every day.
Medicine, technology, etc.. There is no better time and while powerful people are still shit bags we don't see the levels of atrocities we've seen from people like Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, etc.. etc.. down through history.
I'm convinced our society is a huge bubble and at a certain point the bubble will burst. Even though we live in a very peaceful time in the West right now, you can feel there's still rising tension. Since everything is about making profits and power. We're draining the Earth. And I think the only *real* reason we haven't had a third world war is because we know damn well it will end humanity most likely since... nuclear weapons.
There's going to be a certain point where we'll run out of a certain resource or we'll fuck up the climate too much for example. Which will have HUGE impact and will cause a lot of chaos (for example: what if we have hundred of millions climate refugees?).
I could be totally wrong of course, but I am wondering: will there a point in our lifes where we will see the "current society" end?
There's going to be a certain point where we'll run out of a certain resource or we'll fuck up the climate too much for example. Which will have HUGE impact and will cause a lot of chaos (for example: what if we have hundred of millions climate refugees?).
I could be totally wrong of course, but I am wondering: will there a point in our lifes where we will see the "current society" end?
We stopped giving a shit is what happened. There's a pretty cool song by Nujabes that pretty much spells it out word for word.
Came here to say this. Things look bleak quite often, but we're actually in relatively good times right now. We should always work to improve, but keeping perspective is important.
Fear. Fear is a massive political tool.
There's always an enemy and only they can protect you from that enemy.
Muslims, people of colour, the elite, the left, the universities.
Always the same, they target people's fears and present an enemy who is out to destroy their way of life, despite there being no evidence for such a thing.
Good example - Islamic terrorist attacks in the US in 2017 vs Non-Islamic terrorist attacks in the US in 2017, yet one of those groups is a target. Why is that?
In the UK, the Daily Mail is currently targeting universities because of their overwhelming stance towards Remain in the EU referendum. The Daily Mail claims to defend "British Values" but supported the Nazis and continues to attack out judges, our NHS and our universities because they won't fall in line.
There's always an enemy and only they can protect you from that enemy.
Muslims, people of colour, the elite, the left, the universities.
Always the same, they target people's fears and present an enemy who is out to destroy their way of life, despite there being no evidence for such a thing.
Good example - Islamic terrorist attacks in the US in 2017 vs Non-Islamic terrorist attacks in the US in 2017, yet one of those groups is a target. Why is that?
In the UK, the Daily Mail is currently targeting universities because of their overwhelming stance towards Remain in the EU referendum. The Daily Mail claims to defend "British Values" but supported the Nazis and continues to attack out judges, our NHS and our universities because they won't fall in line.
Yeah...I think it's just that right now so many democratic countries like the US and parts of the EU are taking huge steps backwards in the last few years by appealing to racist/xenophobic viewpoints to ultimately serve ruling economic interests and the expense of democracy and humanity...and it just seems more hopeless. I can understand that.
The pendulum will swing back in these countries though
Op just lacks perspective. Look at any era and you will find as bad and most of the time worse people in power.
Countless people are coming out of poverty every single day. All measurements of worldwide poverty are rapidly declining. All measurements of violence are declining.
The world has very often been far worse.
Barring any nuclear mix-ups from North Korea... the longterm trends are looking very good.
The world has very often been far worse.
Barring any nuclear mix-ups from North Korea... the longterm trends are looking very good.
People are seeking simple solutions to massively complex problems. As Doctor_Thomas above wrote the use of the other or the 'enemy' is a powerful tool in politics and psychological warfare.
People want to be lied to essentially. The Greeks had the Persians as the boogiemen, who they saw and were encouraged to see as effeminate (a bad thing, apparently :s) and irreconcilably alien and opposed to Greek culture.
As humans we try to rectify things we see as wrong. We need to be mindful.
Fake edit: My first post!
People want to be lied to essentially. The Greeks had the Persians as the boogiemen, who they saw and were encouraged to see as effeminate (a bad thing, apparently :s) and irreconcilably alien and opposed to Greek culture.
As humans we try to rectify things we see as wrong. We need to be mindful.
Fake edit: My first post!
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Super Mario Odyssey just came out, so things can't be that bad
The simplest answer is that we are facing problems that have extremely difficult solutions that will require us to change the way we live. In the face of such imminent, unknown danger it is particularly easy for many to latch onto simplistic solutions that make the danger feel less imposing. Add on the way the internet has decentralized and destabilized the traditional media through which we use to understand the world, and it's easy to see how things went south quite quickly. The good news is that we are making important advances in many fields and that the doom and gloom of politics takes a disproportionately large place in our understanding of current events.
/s
What time was better? 1930, with Mussolini, Stalin, Hitler?
Take your pick, every century had monsters, and the 20th century had maybe the worst of all (at least in terms of damage done).
Yeah, things aren't great now, but....things are objectively way, way better than a century ago. We have a ways to go, and there's an upsetting populist wave sweeping the globe that I sincerely hope doesn't get any worse, but it it's absolutely 100% not more than ever before.
I think of it like the stock market. It's not going to always move upwards; there will be dips and rises back and forth, but the long-term trend is upwards. We're in a dip right now, but as you said, the pendulum will swing back.
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